March '08 timetable changes - what's on the agenda?

[Derwan]

The March timetable change is just 4 months away.

With each timetable change, we trust that QR/QT has done the figures, determined what's needed, implemented necessary changes and scheduled the services in line with capacity and allowing for connections.

Of course we don't know this for sure until the timetable has actually been released, which tends to be just a week or two before of the change.

The March change was announced some time ago.  By now it should be known how many additional trains will be available, how many additional services will be scheduled and what time of the day these additional services should commence.

I think it's time to call for a "draft plan" for the March '08 timetable.  Nothing specific - just a count of additional services, how frequently they will run and the period of time they will run for.  (E.g. Shorncliffe line afternoon peak - 3 additional services resulting in wait times of no longer than 17 minutes between 4pm and 6pm.)

This would give time for the public to provide feedback and adjustments to be made before the final plan is put together, timetables printed, etc.

[ozbob]

Good idea Derwan. 

Lets see what we can do.

Regards
Ozbob

[brad C]

Derwan

I would very much doubt whether the March timetable is going to be the great panacea for solving all of Citytrain woes.
For example, work on the triplication between Salisbury and Kuraby will only just be commissioned as will the duplication between Mitchelton and Keperra with Helensvale and Robina not coming on till later in the year.
These improvements will be catalysts for additional services on these lines.
On the Northside, I would recommend you go sit out at Eagle Junction or Bowen Hills of an afternoon and observe the frequency of services operating at the present time to appreciate where are the gaps in the headway for additional services, and appreciate these stations are served with fully operational quadruplication, which must of necessity serve suburban, airport contract services, inter-urban, long distance and freight services.
Apart from tweaking of the destinations and the running paths of certain services or the re-scheduling of freight and long disatnce services in the PM peak, and the extension of peak per se to a broader time gap, I would not be in a rush to be disappointed.
Add  to this that there has not been one delivery yet of any of the new suburban rolling stock and bingo, March 08 doesn't look so exciting.

There is also to be a second timetable revision in September 08.
Perhaps that may be more hopeful.

Sorry to put a dampener on your excitement but I got all excited when the cross river bridge opened in 1978 and found that the timetable actually went backwards for northside services...

I sound like a pessimist but believe me, I started rail commuting in the 1960s and recall vivdly the commissioning of the Roma Street to Corinda quadruplication in December 1963!! Now that was a timetable improvement.

Brad C.

[Derwan]

Hi Brad,

You have been very negative in the last 2 posts of yours that I've seen.  Bob and I are trying to think outside the box and come up with ideas to improve the train network and the communication between QR/QT and the public.

What do you expect us to do?  Sit around and accept that nothing will ever improve?  If that's the case, why are you here?  By continually pushing for improvement - even if our ideas wouldn't work - we are notifying the government that we want a world-class transport system and as yet we are far from it!  The day we stop pushing is the day the system stops improving, NOT when the current network reaches capacity.  Physical limitations can be addressed if there is enough call for it.

On the timetabling issue, one of the reasons I'd like to see details of the changes published is that I actually agree with you.  It won't be the perfect solution we'd all like.  I think it'd be better for us to know this in advance - first of all so that we're not disappointed when the change actually arrives (we'll be ready for it), and second so that we can start pushing for better sooner.

[brad C]

It is somewhat disappointing that my comments are percieved as 'negative'.
My suggestion of a scan of existing operations is merely a tool in which to guage an appreciation of the sytemic challenges that confront timetablers.
As an academic with considerable exerience in research dissertation  I would have envisaged that a scan of the existing environment would be tantamount to proactive suggestions, which I observe are undertaken often and with appropriate forethought by this web based organistaion.
My comments are the product of considerable experience, observation and research and are intended to fuel debate and stimulate further thoughts and suggestions, not to stifle the promulgations of the organisation.

The valuable work undertaken by Rail Back on Track is not to be underestimated.
However, members' comments must be regarded as adding a balance to the issues, and not promotion of myopia.

Brad C

[ozbob]

No worries healthy debate leads to progress.

There are some severe constraints, particularly the Roma St Central Brunswick St  tunnels etc. and the northern line, and the bridges across the river.

By utilising the loop line more than now it may be possible to increase frequency as if one set of trains is running unidirectional it reduces the number of through services.  For example looping the Darra to Central - Central to Darra services that I proposed.

The Ipswich line, particularly from Darra to the City can be ramped up easily.  It will need to be with the Hale St bridge work causing absolute traffic chaos from Western suburbs shortly.  Buses to the CBD will caught up in the gridlock. The BCC therefore plans on running extra buses feeding stations like Indooroopilly, Toowong, Taringa.  Has anyone told TL and QR?  There will be a need for some of those extra shuttles that I have been suggesting.

Keep the ideas coming, we may or may not having any real impact but no harm in trying 

Regards
Bob

[Mozz]

Given the debate around the recent March timetable I thought it prudent to go back and visit this thread. Brad was right on the money (unfortunately) and I totally support Derwan's comments about QR "socialising" the timetable with commuters before implementation which didn't appear to happen (again unfortunately).

As Bob suggested, healthy debate leads to progress and I would add that robust consultation and engagement with commuters as an actual stakeholder in the public transport arena leads to better outcomes.

[Derwan]

Hopefully the "Meet the Managers" days are an indication that there will be open communication between QR and the public about the September 2008 timetable changes.

[Mozz]

Seriously though folks, I believe that the least that should be done with respect to the new September timetable is that it is published two months out with a 4week consultation period and then allowing for another 4weeks of tweaks as a result of the input from the commuters.

My online input is that 6 carriage trains which regularly carry in excess of the maximum passenger load number as specified by the train manufacturer would be a good place to start with respect to additional or modified services in the new timetable. From a risk management perspective I can't understand what appears to be a complete lack of any action on this previously identified, known and regularly raised issue.

Then again I find it a bit difficult to understand that it takes 6 years to deliver an order of 44 x 3 carriage units and knowing that, and the rate of passenger load increase, we haven't see any more ordered. Pretty soon we will be told that congestion will be eased by 2020 when the additional units ordered in 2010 are delivered. But by then we may well see passenger loads increase by 20 - 40% per year when oil is unavailable to power private vehicles.