1980 and 2009 what is the difference???

[Mozz]

Here I sit at indooroopilly station arguably the busiest station outside of the CBD. not knowing the timetable I missed the 7.18pm to Ipswich by 2 mins thus I am now onthe platform waiting almost 30 mins for the next train. It's not a good look for public transport.

I would have been in the same position 30 years ago.

I am sure there is something inthis for everyone.

Why

[Otto]

I think I preferred rail travel in 1980. The railways had more character. There was a good variety of rollingstock/trains to see. You could ride an electric to Ferny Grove, then take a diesel hauling SX cars to Ipswich or catch a diesel hauling the old wooden carriges to Lota. At night, you could get the Silver Bullet 2000 class railcar home... Today it's just electric, electric and more electric... Not as much fun....
( and I think the trains were more reliable then )

[O_128]

the service in the 80s was all people expected where as today we expect a lot more such as higher frequency

[Jon Bryant]

If we assumme that PT demand is onky 7% of trips why are more services needed?  Shows how flawed this assumption is.  Flawed planning equals flawed outcomes equals Brisbane 2009.  Off to buy shares in Shell, Chevron, Caltex, Ford, Holden and Chrysler.

[stephenk]

Perth, Stockholm, Berlin, Oslo, Munich, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Valparaiso, and Melbourne have decent off-peak suburban rail frequencies. Why is Brisbane so backwards?

[ButFli]

If we assumme that PT demand is onky 7% of trips why are more services needed?  Shows how flawed this assumption is. 

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be because the total number of trips has increased. Brisbane is the exact same size as it was in 1980 I am sure. :rolleyes:

[O_128]

Perth, Stockholm, Berlin, Oslo, Munich, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Valparaiso, and Melbourne have decent off-peak suburban rail frequencies. Why is Brisbane so backwards?

because we are just lazy thats it. If Translink/QR wanted to do 15 min off peak they could start it on monday they jsut cant be bothered 

[Arnz]

Perth, Stockholm, Berlin, Oslo, Munich, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Valparaiso, and Melbourne have decent off-peak suburban rail frequencies. Why is Brisbane so backwards?

because we are just lazy thats it. If Translink/QR wanted to do 15 min off peak they could start it on monday they jsut cant be bothered  

Where is the money going to come from?  Where is the extra staff gonna come from?  Where is the extra units going to come from?  What if a train breaks down with no reserves in the depot.

Trains and staff cannot just simply appear out of thin air.

[somebody]

Perth, Stockholm, Berlin, Oslo, Munich, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Valparaiso, and Melbourne have decent off-peak suburban rail frequencies. Why is Brisbane so backwards?

because we are just lazy thats it. If Translink/QR wanted to do 15 min off peak they could start it on monday they jsut cant be bothered 

Hate to nitpick, but the fleet probably couldn't cope with running greater (like nearly double) counter peak services.

I suspect some of the problem is that translink would have to pay $x per service to QR, but the real cost of increased off peak services is not quite as steep as that.  There's a lot of fixed costs to rail that are paid anyway.

[longboi]

Perth, Stockholm, Berlin, Oslo, Munich, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Valparaiso, and Melbourne have decent off-peak suburban rail frequencies. Why is Brisbane so backwards?

because we are just lazy thats it. If Translink/QR wanted to do 15 min off peak they could start it on monday they jsut cant be bothered 

Monday hey? Would you put money on it? 

[ozbob]

From memory, this was the 8.12am Oxley to town which used to run express Corinda to Milton, and lots of fun too!

Arriving at Oxley one morning towards the last days of regular diesel hauled SX set operation, circa 1998 I think



Photograph R Dow  can't quite remember when ...

[ozbob]

During the  Ekka one year (possibly 1996) I recall doing the following for a trip to the Turntable at Nundah.

Caught the Diesel hauled SX set at Oxley, 2000 Class Rail Motor from Corinda to Yeerongpilly,  39 Electric class hauling SX set Yeerongpilly to Roma St.  Steam Roma St to Brunswick St.  EMU Brunswick St to Nundah.   

Now that was variety   

[david]

Where is the money going to come from?  Where is the extra staff gonna come from?  Where is the extra units going to come from?  What if a train breaks down with no reserves in the depot.

Trains and staff cannot just simply appear out of thin air.

I believe there are enough trains to run 15 minute frequencies, even in the counter-peak direction. Empty sets that would normally terminate at Roma St/Bowen Hills would continue on. This might also alleviate conflicting movements at either end which reduce the potential capacity of the mains. The question would be whether existing staff would consider working extra hours which is highly unlikely.

The current infrastructure would be a problem too, especially if we are to propose that 15 minute services to the end of each line.

Here I sit at indooroopilly station arguably the busiest station outside of the CBD. not knowing the timetable I missed the 7.18pm to Ipswich by 2 mins thus I am now onthe platform waiting almost 30 mins for the next train. It's not a good look for public transport.

I would have been in the same position 30 years ago.

I am sure there is something inthis for everyone.

Why

If it's any consolation, in two/three years time there will be a 15 minute frequency (at least the Darra-City stretch anyway)

[somebody]

If it's any consolation, in two/three years time there will be a 15 minute frequency (at least the Darra-City stretch anyway)

It's no consolation.  The Richlands branch means running every 15mins to Corinda doesn't count as any sort of commitment to frequency anymore.

[ozbob]

We might have to go to 20 minute off peak frequency as a first stage Mozz.  That is better than 30 minutes.  Darra to the City will have an excellent frequency once Richlands kicks in.  I don't think they will run shuttles at peak, although that is possible off peak.

Sectorization as I understand it means that some lines can be ramped up in frequency.  Ipswich Caboolture is the obvious one, but all lines need better services. 

[somebody]

Sectorization as I understand it means that some lines can be ramped up in frequency.  Ipswich Caboolture is the obvious one, but all lines need better services. 

Counting the PM peak frequencies outbound on the Ipswich Line (times from Central, ignoring Tennyson loop trains):
3-3:59PM 5 trains
4-4:59PM 6 trains
5-5:59PM 8 trains

It seems clear that track capacity is not a constraint here.

[stephenk]

Sectorization as I understand it means that some lines can be ramped up in frequency.  Ipswich Caboolture is the obvious one, but all lines need better services. 

Counting the PM peak frequencies outbound on the Ipswich Line (times from Central, ignoring Tennyson loop trains):
3-3:59PM 5 trains
4-4:59PM 6 trains
5-5:59PM 8 trains

It seems clear that track capacity is not a constraint here.

AM peak frequencies are higher. 13tph from Caboolture and Ipswich Lines, and 19tph from Beenleigh/Gold Coast/Cleveland Lines.

[somebody]

AM peak frequencies are higher. 13tph from Caboolture and Ipswich Lines, and 19tph from Beenleigh/Gold Coast/Cleveland Lines.

Do they have some trains on the Ipswich line which are packed, but others with free seats?

Let's hope that in the Post-Richlands timetable update they go with just one or two express patterns and even spacings.  If one pattern then something like express between Milton & Oxley stopping at Toowong & Indooroopilly, but maybe only 1/3 of the trains can be sourced from Richlands.

[Mozz]

QR are investigating the rationalisation of express patterns on the Ipswich Line as disussed at our last CRG.

Peak morning and afternoon some are packed Derwan scale of 5 most are a 4 and some are a 3. Sometimes you might get lucky and the previous train is late and picks up passengers which should have boarded your train leaving less commuters on the train following a late runner.

Living at Oxley, a few rare trains commence at Darra so they are great.

In the afternoon catching a train that terminates at Redbank is generally more comfortable that one going all the way through to Ipswich.

[somebody]

Oh, by the way, when I said one or two peak express patterns, I meant no all stations to Ipswich trains during peak times.  If you really want to get between, e.g. Sherwood & Ipswich during the peak, then you can change.

[stephenk]

Certainly the Ipswich timetable needs it service patterns rationalised. The current am peak timetable is messy, random, and nearly every service has a different stopping pattern. I think there should be alternating services Richlands/Corinda all stations, and Ipswich expresses (only calling at principle stations between Corinda and Roma Street). At the current 13tph, this would be a train every 9 mins for each service. At an improved 15tph, this would be a train every 8 mins for each service.

[somebody]

Certainly the Ipswich timetable needs it service patterns rationalised. The current am peak timetable is messy, random, and nearly every service has a different stopping pattern. I think there should be alternating services Richlands/Corinda all stations, and Ipswich expresses (only calling at principle stations between Corinda and Roma Street). At the current 13tph, this would be a train every 9 mins for each service. At an improved 15tph, this would be a train every 8 mins for each service.

Was that with Corinda-Darra tripled or quadded?  With the latter I would say 5tph Richlands all stations, with 2 other cycling patterns each at 5tph.  Probably exp Goodna-Roma St stopping at Darra and exp Oxley-Milton stopping at Toowong and Indro.  No need to run Corinda terminators.

It'd be hard getting much more down the single track to Richlands.

[david]

Probably exp Goodna-Roma St stopping at Darra and exp Oxley-Milton stopping at Toowong and Indro.  No need to run Corinda terminators.

It'd be hard getting much more down the single track to Richlands.

Luckily the track to Richlands is a double track then!

I agree with ceasing any trains beginning/ending at Corinda. All trains should either start at Ipswich/Rosewood, Redbank or Richlands, once Richlands opens.

Do they have some trains on the Ipswich line which are packed, but others with free seats?

This is just from observation only, using the Derwan scale -

AM Peak (ex Ipswich, unless stated)
6:46am - 3/4
6:51am - 5
7:14am (ex Redbank) - 3/4 (I've noticed an improvement lately - most people must be using the Darra-Roma St express afterwards)
7:05am - 4/5
7:16am - 4/5
7:20am - 5
7:24am - 4
7:32am - 4

The lighter loading ones would have to be the
- Services up to, and including the 7:04am (ex Darra) - most are around a 1 or 2
- 7:39am, 7:49am, 8:05am (ex Corinda) - around a 1
- 8:13am (ex Darra) - 1/2
- 7:58am (ex Redbank) - 2

PM Peak (ex Central)

4:05pm - 3/4                                              4:09pm - 1
4:20pm - 2/3                                              4:35pm - 5
4:50pm - 4                                                 4:55pm - 2 (probably gets to a 1 by Friday)
5:06pm - 5                                                 5:09pm - 3
5:13pm - 2/3                                              5:21pm - 3/4
5:27pm - 5 - eases to a 4 by Friday                5:34pm - 3/4
5:42pm - 2                                                 5:48pm - 2
6:05pm - 3/4

I'm surprised that QR don't "advertise" which trains still have free seats, as that might get people to change their habits and catch an earlier/later service which is lighter loading.

[somebody]

Luckily the track to Richlands is a double track then!
...
I'm surprised that QR don't "advertise" which trains still have free seats, as that might get people to change their habits and catch an earlier/later service which is lighter loading.

Is that right.  Last I heard they were still building it as a single track.

They should be far further ahead of the curve than needing to advertise which services are packed and which aren't.

Thanks for your congestion rankings.  It shows what one might expect though.  Outbound trains which come straight after other trains are less packed than ones which follow large gaps.  And for inbound trains, ones that start later on the journey are less packed.

[ozbob]

The line from Darra to Richlands is definitely double track.  The only uncertainty is whether the section from Richlands to Stepham (just prior to Springfield Lakes) will be single as originally indicated or double.  We have been pushing for double all the way from Richlands to Springfield, with the construction of the stations at Ellen Grove and Springfield Lakes (as well as Springfield of course) from the outset.  They wanted to originally build the line single as indicated and leave the stations at Ellen Grove and Springfield Lakes till later!



See --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=639.0

[O_128]

The line from Darra to Richlands is definitely double track.  The only uncertainty is whether the section from Richlands to Stepham (just prior to Springfield Lakes) will be single as originally indicated or double.  We have been pushing for double all the way from Richlands to Springfield, with the construction of the stations at Ellen Grove and Springfield Lakes (as well as Springfield of course) from the outset.  They wanted to originally build the line single as indicated and leave the stations at Ellen Grove and Springfield Lakes till later!



See --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=639.0

Judging by the kind of passenger numbers on the richlands spur will give Qr/translink/whoever a decision on double track as well as stations

[O_128]

From memory, this was the 8.12am Oxley to town which used to run express Corinda to Milton, and lots of fun too!

Arriving at Oxley one morning towards the last days of regular diesel hauled SX set operation, circa 1998 I think



Photograph R Dow  can't quite remember when ...

out of curiosty ozbob were these trains doors level with the platform as it looks lower than the current trains