Discussion etc. - growth management and PT / active transport targets

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail click here!

Cyclists crucial to reducing traffic under population growth plans

Cyclists crucial to reducing traffic under population growth plans

   * Ursula Heger and Emma Chalmers
   * From: The Courier-Mail
   * May 27, 2010 10:22PM

WALKING, cycling and catching public transport could replace the use of cars for almost 20 per cent of trips under new plans to deal with the state's population growth over the next 20 years.

Under the State Government's growth management plan, the number of cycling trips will double to 20 per cent, while public transport will increase from 7 per cent to 14 per cent.

This will reduce the share of trips by private vehicles from 83 per cent to 66 per cent, alleviating congestion on the state's roads.

But the Government will have to first release the long-awaited Integrated Regional Transport Plan for the southeast, originally expected to be finalised mid-last year.

Under the plan, councils will be encouraged to contribute to public transport funding to boost services across the region.

The idea has previously been rejected by some southeast Queensland councils on the grounds they cannot afford to raise rates for services which may not focus on their area.

The plan also could lead to a pilot shared carparking scheme in "transit-orientated community precincts" such as the RNA Showgrounds development at Bowen Hills.

The proposal would see residents share a limited number of carparks in a bid to force locals to abandon their vehicles in favour of public transport.

Wireless internet connection may also be rolled out to public transport hubs such as bus stations and public spaces. A plan to roll out wireless internet on the southeast's Citytrain network has been delayed but is expected to be in place by the end of the year.

Commuter Debbie Chamberlain, who catches a train to work in Brisbane City three days a week, said frequency of services would have to improve to cope with the increase in passengers swapping from cars to public transport.

"They would have to make the trains more reliable and frequent if they are going to do that," she said.

Mrs Chamberlain, who lives at Warner in the Moreton Bay Regional Council area, said she would not like to see councils pay for added public transport services.

Windsor commuter Marcus Trant said that while he usually left his car to either walk or ride, cycling infrastructure in the city was still not comprehensive.

"I walk to work quite frequently but I don't think that everyone can do this," he said.

The Government released its full response to the Growth Management Summit as Brisbane's Lord Mayor Campbell Newman accused Labor of hiding planning for growth issues.

He was broadly supportive of the satellite cities plan but said the timeframe was challenging and the state needed to ensure it was providing jobs and critical transport infrastructure.

"If you're going to build a new satellite city or town south of Brisbane, you need to have the public transport solution in place on the day the first residents move into their homes otherwise the car culture will be entrenched," Cr Newman told The Courier-Mail.

He said MPs needed to start doing the "heavy lifting" alongside councils to help the community deal with growth issues.

[Golliwog]

But a properly provisioned public transport system can do so much better than just 14%!!!! No problems with the planned increase in walking and cycling though.

[ozbob]

We need to aim for at least 50% public transport and active transport.  With the projected growth this will be necessary to allow folks to get around in a sustainable manner.  The growth management summit highlighted the need, the response so far is expedient to say the least ....

[ozbob]

F R E Q U E N C Y!  Time to make the jump!!

:bi

[Golliwog]

I don't know if I'm alone in my beliefs about this, but I'm of the opinion that Translink should focus more on improving the frequency of its current routes, perhaps making some adjustments to their routes, but in general not introducing any major new routes. By improving the frequency of existing routes, it makes introducing any new routes after that a lot easier to do as theres less of an issue with synchronising timetables.

Reliability is also a key issue. Everyone here (as far as I know) agrees that bus lanes or at least a bus queue jump at lights are easily justified if you're trying to push for a larger PT mode share. IMO, theres too much pansying around the issue trying to pander to the wants of those who want to drive everywhere.

[ozbob]

You are not alone Golliwog!  Some new routes are needed but addressing frequency rail and bus, and ferry as it develops is critical.  Rail must improve off peak.  I am quite happy to have 20 minutes as a first stage rather than 30/60 minutes (some times longer).  This is well within the capability of the present network. As the infrastructure comes on tap (Richlands, Corinda - Darra)  bigger ramps possible.

If the services are there the punters will shift.  Some 'loss leading' will be needed but the longer gains will be worth it.  Properly supported with education and support.

[stephenk]

As I've stated before, I think 50% public transport would be very difficult to achieve in Brisbane's sprawl, but 50% active or public transport would be much more achievable.

Ramping up frequency is essential. 20mins frequencies would allow increased services to more destinations (as infrastructure rail currently makes 15mins difficult/impossible to some destinations). It may also allow 10min frequencies or better where lines are combined. However, I still think that 15mins is much more attractive frequency than 20mins, and the infrastructure required for this to occur needs to be given priority over white-elephant toll roads.

We need more Buz services to more areas. These have been proven to increase patronage due to the better frequency. Start with the almost but not quite Buz services, then convert those routes with 30mins frequencies next. We also need rail feeder buses - they can be mini-buses as are popular in the UK to suit the loads. 

We also need better urban planning. The sprawl must be contained and controlled. New developments need decent public transport soon upon opening, not 10 years later as in Springfield. I like the idea of busways running between housing and central areas as in Runcorn new town in the UK, a breath of fresh air compared to housing developments in Brisbane where buses cannot even get down the roads!

Population density must go up to increase sustainability and efficiency of transport. I think this will be a slow process, and the move to higher density housing maybe should be focussed on the younger generation (e.g new home owners), rather than those already attached to living the unsustainable Australian dream. If people decide to live near their place of work, then thats a big win to active transport.

Finally, we need a complete and as direct as reasonably possible cycleway network. The current patchwork and indirect cycle network does not help with attracting people to cycling to/from work.

[somebody]

20 minute frequency is unachievable in both directions on the Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines without some radical changes or quadding.

I would also agree with Golliwog.  The 393 & CityGlider cover areas more or less already served.  126/77/299 routes are better than a kick in the teeth but not a big advance either.

There's a good argument out my way that instead of having an hourly 425/430/433/445, you could run those routes half hourly and truncate at Indro.  And make the 435 terminate at Indro full time, perhaps with peak time extensions to the city if that's better than the 436.

[stephenk]

20 minute frequency is unachievable in both directions on the Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines without some radical changes or quadding.

20min frequency is achievable to most current termini with current infrastructure - Varsity Lakes, Beenleigh, Ipswich, Caboolture, Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove, Airport, Cleveland, and Richlands (when it opens). There may be some slight increases in running times required for these to be achieved.

Although 15mins is a much more attractive frequency, it would only be possible as far as Kuraby (and even then slowing Gold Coast trains by 4-5mins) on the Beenleigh Line, and Manly on the Cleveland Line. 20mins has more potential network coverage with current infrastructure, and could provide 10mins "metro like" frequency where 2 lines are combined.

Not too sure what would happen on the Ipswich/Richlands line though, as:
- A two tier service (20mins Ipswich express, 20mins Richlands all stations) would result in lower frequency at some stations but faster journey times from Ipswich.
- 20mins all stations to both Ipswich/Richlands would provide "metro like" frequencies to many stations but not provide any journey time improvements from Ipswich.
- A 20mins service to Ipswich with connecting shuttles to Richlands at Darra could be considered at quieter times (Sunday am, late at night).
- A 20mins service as far as Darra, with half to Ipswich and half to Richlands shouldn't even be thought about.

[Golliwog]

As for bus timetable improvement, perhaps even a program similar to the Travel Smart campaign where its done on an area by area basis, as well as (like with Travel Smart) consulting with people in the area about any problems they may have with the existing bus routes. I know it would take a while to get around the whole of SEQ, but it would probably provide better benefits than just consulting with those who bother to make a complaint or suggestion and trying to up the frequency of the whole area at the same time.

[somebody]

20min frequency is achievable to most current termini with current infrastructure - Varsity Lakes, Beenleigh

You would have to slow the trains, which is something I am against.

Roma St-Beenleigh running times are 59-60 mins for an all stopper.  44mins for a Coastie.

If two All Stoppers left at 11:05am and 11:25 arrived at Beenleigh at 12:04pm and :12:24, a Gold Coast train leaving Roma St at 11:22am would arrive at Beenleigh at 12:06pm at current run times.  That's not enough to allow for the 3 minute signal headway, and I would presume that at least 1 minute would have to be allowed to clear the train out of service to enter the siding.  I'd be surprised if it wasn't a fair bit more.

- A 20mins service as far as Darra, with half to Ipswich and half to Richlands shouldn't even be thought about.

Definitely agree with that.

I like the idea of the Ipswich express at 20 mins with the Richlands all stations at 20 minutes.  That also allows 20 minute Caboolture service with skipping Albion/Woolowin/Nundah/Toombul and 20 minute Shorncliffe service.  It's a slight degradation in the 4 stations' service, but given what the rest of Brissie has to put up with I think they need to suck it up.

[Jon Bryant]

As I've stated before, I think 50% public transport would be very difficult to achieve in Brisbane's sprawl, but 50% active or public transport would be much more achievable.

Ramping up frequency is essential. 20mins frequencies would allow increased services to more destinations (as infrastructure rail currently makes 15mins difficult/impossible to some destinations). It may also allow 10min frequencies or better where lines are combined. However, I still think that 15mins is much more attractive frequency than 20mins, and the infrastructure required for this to occur needs to be given priority over white-elephant toll roads.

We need more Buz services to more areas. These have been proven to increase patronage due to the better frequency. Start with the almost but not quite Buz services, then convert those routes with 30mins frequencies next. We also need rail feeder buses - they can be mini-buses as are popular in the UK to suit the loads. 

We also need better urban planning. The sprawl must be contained and controlled. New developments need decent public transport soon upon opening, not 10 years later as in Springfield. I like the idea of busways running between housing and central areas as in Runcorn new town in the UK, a breath of fresh air compared to housing developments in Brisbane where buses cannot even get down the roads!

Population density must go up to increase sustainability and efficiency of transport. I think this will be a slow process, and the move to higher density housing maybe should be focussed on the younger generation (e.g new home owners), rather than those already attached to living the unsustainable Australian dream. If people decide to live near their place of work, then thats a big win to active transport.

Finally, we need a complete and as direct as reasonably possible cycleway network. The current patchwork and indirect cycle network does not help with attracting people to cycling to/from work.

Well put.  The target of 50% public and active transport should be the combined target as they compliment each other.  I think it would also take bus lanes on major roads, potentially trams on major roads and a fair new number of lines to service areas with poor service today

[ozbob]

Runcorn New Town, some info following on from Stephen's comment:

http://www2.halton.gov.uk/yourcouncil/townsandvillages/runcornnewtown/?a=5441

The second element is the public transport Busway. On this road system all other vehicles are prohibited. Where the Busway crosses ordinary roads, light signals automatically give priority to the buses. An important factor is that 90% of the residents in the new town area live within a few minutes walk of a bus stop.

[stephenk]

20min frequency is achievable to most current termini with current infrastructure - Varsity Lakes, Beenleigh

You would have to slow the trains, which is something I am against.

Roma St-Beenleigh running times are 59-60 mins for an all stopper.  44mins for a Coastie.

If two All Stoppers left at 11:05am and 11:25 arrived at Beenleigh at 12:04pm and :12:24, a Gold Coast train leaving Roma St at 11:22am would arrive at Beenleigh at 12:06pm at current run times.  That's not enough to allow for the 3 minute signal headway, and I would presume that at least 1 minute would have to be allowed to clear the train out of service to enter the siding.  I'd be surprised if it wasn't a fair bit more.

The Gold Coast sevices gain approx 15mins on Beenleigh trains, so adding two lots of 3 mins signalling headway = 21mins. So, yes, Gold Trains would have to be slowed in at least one direction by a few minutes. However the benefit of the whole of the Beenleigh and Gold Coast Line having 20mins frequency is surely worth a couple of minutes longer journey time.

- A 20mins service as far as Darra, with half to Ipswich and half to Richlands shouldn't even be thought about.

Definitely agree with that.

I like the idea of the Ipswich express at 20 mins with the Richlands all stations at 20 minutes.  That also allows 20 minute Caboolture service with skipping Albion/Woolowin/Nundah/Toombul and 20 minute Shorncliffe service.  It's a slight degradation in the 4 stations' service, but given what the rest of Brissie has to put up with I think they need to suck it up.

There is no perfect solution with 20mins frequencies and 2 tier services. Some stations would loose 1tph, some will gain 1tph, a few would gain 2tph, and some will get a faster journey time to the CBD.

[#Metro]

I don't know if I'm alone in my beliefs about this, but I'm of the opinion that Translink should focus more on improving the frequency of its current routes, perhaps making some adjustments to their routes, but in general not introducing any major new routes. By improving the frequency of existing routes, it makes introducing any new routes after that a lot easier to do as theres less of an issue with synchronising timetables.

I agree. We don't need just more bus routes, but, fewer quality BUZ routes.
Less bus routes, higher frequency. Consolidation. Start by combining 66 + 109. That cuts a number off the list.
More trains in the off-peak where possible, even if that starts at one extra service per hour.

Pulse timetabling where possible. Pulsing buses at Ipswich is a good suggestion.

[ozbob]

However the benefit of the whole of the Beenleigh and Gold Coast Line having 20mins frequency is surely worth a couple of minutes longer journey time.

Yes, I don't think that is of concern, the increase in frequency is worth it.

[Golliwog]

However the benefit of the whole of the Beenleigh and Gold Coast Line having 20mins frequency is surely worth a couple of minutes longer journey time.

Yes, I don't think that is of concern, the increase in frequency is worth it.

Definately, and I also think they will regain that lost time if/when the Beenleigh line becomes quad track.

[ClintonL94]

Roma St-Beenleigh running times are 59-60 mins for an all stopper.  44mins for a Coastie.

If two All Stoppers left at 11:05am and 11:25 arrived at Beenleigh at 12:04pm and :12:24, a Gold Coast train leaving Roma St at 11:22am would arrive at Beenleigh at 12:06pm at current run times.  That's not enough to allow for the 3 minute signal headway, and I would presume that at least 1 minute would have to be allowed to clear the train out of service to enter the siding.  I'd be surprised if it wasn't a fair bit more.

I have seen quite a few all stoppers arriving into beenleigh at :06/:36 past(timetabled for :03/:36 past) onto platform 2 and dont go to the siding for another 1-2 minutes depending on the load(gold coast use platform 1 :10/:40 past).

[stephenk]

Pulse timetabling where possible. Pulsing buses at Ipswich is a good suggestion.

Pulse timetabling may be useful for buses where multiple bus routes terminate at a train station, although this would be no different to having connecting timetables anyway.

It is not at all practical to pulse timetable trains in Brisbane.

[somebody]

The Gold Coast sevices gain approx 15mins on Beenleigh trains, so adding two lots of 3 mins signalling headway = 21mins. So, yes, Gold Trains would have to be slowed in at least one direction by a few minutes. However the benefit of the whole of the Beenleigh and Gold Coast Line having 20mins frequency is surely worth a couple of minutes longer journey time.

I would fear that by the time the train is checked empty and departs for the siding at a low speed it would add up to more than just 2 minutes of delay.  And it's only the Coasties which are slowed.  I'd think the 20 minute frequency would outweigh complaints as you suggest.

There is no perfect solution with 20mins frequencies and 2 tier services. Some stations would loose 1tph, some will gain 1tph, a few would gain 2tph, and some will get a faster journey time to the CBD.

And it is traditional to give the busiest lines the best service.  What you and I have outlined means that the Ipswich and Caboolture lines get a faster and more frequent service.  But the govt just doesn't want to do that.

[ozbob]

To be fair, I think we are very likely to see the first significant frequency increases on the CAB - IPS corridor.  This is the engine room of the Citytrain network in some respects (and remember the Minister has specifically mentioned sectorisation before and cited Ipswich - Caboolture as the example ... ), albeit the complications with freight and to a lesser extent Traveltrain services, but all can be accommodated.
It is not unusual on the Ippy for coalies to be mixed with subs during peaks.  The Ferny Grove line is another that could have an early frequency increase.

[somebody]

I expect this is going to be limited to 15 minute frequency as far as Darra full time, and perhaps 15 minute frequency to Petrie without express services.

[stephenk]

I expect this is going to be limited to 15 minute frequency as far as Darra full time, and perhaps 15 minute frequency to Petrie without express services.

That would I would have thought. However, I have heard from QR staff that 20mins off-peak is being planned. Don't take this as being gospel though.