Brisbane CBD Underground Corridors

[SteelPan]

I hope to one day see these put through - the only thing that will really force the issue in a decade or so, is they will offer relief, to the (by then) more than strained existing inner-city tunnels (luckily, duplicating the existing bridge structures will not even do that).  A handful of underground CBD stations would offer great transport, property and lifestyle benefits to Brisbane.

Anyway, as I said, I HOPE to see it......

[ozbob]

Welcome SteelPan! 

Yes for sure, a possible route would be from Central, Eagle St, Botanical Gardens (QUT), under the river, Wooloongabba, rejoin the southern line around Park Road or so.  I think they should start digging tomorrow morning! 

[ozbob]

"AN underground rail system for central Brisbane is being investigated by the State Government to help cope with the city's massive growth."

From: Courier Mail  9 August 2007 --> click here!

[ozbob]

RAIL Back On Track has long been suggesting an underground extension from Central to Park Road.

eg --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=78.msg470#msg470   and

--> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=83.msg471#msg471

The Minister will be announcing a feasibility study into this and other matters according to the article.  Well done!!



==========================================

Trains to travel under the river
Article from: The Sunday Mail (Qld)

Click here for Sunday Mail article

By Darrell Giles

August 26, 2007 12:00am

BRISBANE could have two under-the-river rail tunnels and a new rail bridge in a bold State Government public transport plan.

There could be major new train stations at Woolloongabba, Gardens Point and the "financial district" at Eagle St, and a redeveloped Exhibition line for year-round use.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Paul Lucas will today unveil details of a $5 million feasibility study to develop options for connecting the rail network north and south of the Brisbane River.

Last month, The Sunday Mail revealed the Government's Smart Cities: Rethinking the City Centre concept, which included five pedestrian and cycle bridges.

Premier Peter Beattie said his "visionary" 10-to-15-year plan aimed to keep cars and trucks out of the Brisbane CBD and make vast areas pedestrian-friendly.

Mr Lucas said southeast Queensland's booming population ? which increases by more than 1000 a week ? meant trains and buses were close to capacity.

"We need to plan now to ensure public transport will continue to be affordable and convenient in Brisbane into the future," he said yesterday.

"We already know that by around 2016 we'll face congestion on the Merivale Bridge because of the massive number of new services we're putting on.

"But rather than simply deciding to put up another rail bridge right next to it, I want to look at options that will provide smart solutions for the next 50 years and beyond." He said that could mean going underground.

The Inner City Rail Capacity Study by consultants Maunsell Parsons Brinkerhoff is expected to be completed late next year.

The Government's public transport plan would be separate from the Brisbane City Council's TransApex project, which includes four road tunnels and a bridge.

It would be funded by the Government, with a request for Commonwealth assistance. The city council would not be expected to contribute.

"The study is not likely to recommend an underground City (rail) loop because of the small size of the CBD, plus technical and operational constraints," Mr Lucas said.

"But it will consider other potential crossings, including bridges adjacent to existing road and rail connections."

Experts predicted that Citytrain patronage could increase between 39 per cent and 98 per cent in the next decade.

"That's on top of the extra 40 million trips being taken on public transport every year now compared with 2004," Mr Lucas said.

"The inner-city network . . . limits how many extra trains we can run on lines servicing the Gold Coast, Ipswich, Cleveland, Caboolture and the Sunshine Coast."

Mr Lucas said that under the South East Queensland Infrastructure Plan, the Government had committed more than $7 billion in the next 20 years to rail upgrades, new lines to Springfield and on the Gold Coast, and new trains.

He said a new station at the Gabba would help AFL crowds ? about 80 per cent of Suncorp Stadium fans used public transport.

[ozbob]

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Paul Lucas
26/08/2007

FUTURE RAIL CONNECTION IN STUDY'S SIGHTS

Brisbane's rail network could be connected by a massive underground tunnel and major new stations under proposals being looked at in a new State Government study.

Minister for Transport and Main Roads Paul Lucas said the study would help determine how the city could manage the massive growth in public transport demand.

"Queensland's population is increasing by 1500 people a week and close to 70 per cent of that growth is in the south east," Mr Lucas said.

"But popularity comes with a price. And we need to plan now to ensure public transport will continue to be affordable and convenient in Brisbane into the future."

Mr Lucas said the State Government had appointed consultants Maunsell Parsons Brinkerhoff to look at options for boosting rail capacity in the city centre, including potential for an underground tunnel. The $5 million Inner City Rail Capacity Study is expected to be completed in the second half of next year. The public will have a chance to have input into the study next year.

"We already know that by around 2016 we'll face congestion on the Merivale Bridge because of the massive number of new services we're putting on. But rather than simply deciding to put up another rail bridge right next to it, I want to look at options that will provide smart solutions for the next 50 years and beyond."

Mr Lucas said the study would develop a range of possible options connecting the rail network north and south of the river. One possible option is:

    * a 5km to 6km long underground rail line from Park Rd Buranda to Woolloongabba and across the river to connect with the Exhibition line, and
    * major new train stations at Woolloongabba, Gardens Point/QUT, and in the city's financial district.

The study will also consider:

    * the feasibility of using the Exhibition loop for year-round services, supported by new stations,
    * upgrading existing corridors including additional tracks and station upgrades,
    * dedicated links with the busway network at Buranda and Woolloongabba, and
    * possible future incorporation of a transport-oriented development at Woolloongabba and consideration of other such locations

"This is a very complex study," Mr Lucas said.

"Rail tunnels aren't like road tunnels - the grade can't be too steep. That means any rail tunnel might have to be longer or deeper than a road tunnel like the North South Bypass Tunnel. So a rail tunnel could cost more but provide more opportunities for smart network links.

"The study is not likely to recommend an underground city loop because of the small size of the CBD plus technical and operational constraints. But it will consider other potential crossings including bridges adjacent to existing road and rail connections."

Mr Lucas said with the increased population growth, coupled with the growing attractiveness of public transport, Citytrain patronage could increase by between 39% and 98% by 2016.

"That's on top of the extra 40 million trips being taken on public transport every year now compared with 2004," Mr Lucas said.

"But the inner city rail network is the hub of the rail network and its capacity limits how many extra trains we can run on lines servicing the Gold Coast, Ipswich, Cleveland, Caboolture and the Sunshine Coast."

Mr Lucas said the Inner City Rail Capacity Study would systematically take all the physical and operational constraints and opportunities into account in coming up with options, as well as the inner city's anticipated growth in the next 20 years and beyond. Any future rail tunnel could cost at least several billion dollars.

The State Government's Smart Cities Report foreshadows further development of the central business district fringes and intensive transit-oriented development at places such as Bowen Hills and Woolloongabba.

"Let me make it crystal clear, this is what we'll be looking at part of the study. None of it is guaranteed but we want to look at potential solutions that will serve the region for decades," Mr Lucas said.

"This study is about taking a master-planned, network approach that will serve South East Queensland for the next 50 years.

"Under the South East Queensland Infrastructure Plan the Beattie Government has already committed more than $7 billion over the next 20 years to capacity upgrades on the corridors, new lines to Springfield and on the Gold Coast and new trains.

"We'll need to upgrade inner city rail capacity to continue to meet this growth."

Mr Lucas said the option of an underground tunnel could be the next revolution in public transport infrastructure.

"More than 80% of trips to Suncorp Stadium are now being taken on public transport."

"There are 12 AFL games at the Gabba this year, with crowds around 30,000, and up to 20 cricket matches as well. Imagine what having a train station at Woolloongabba could achieve on game day, let alone the role it could play in revitalising that part of town 365 days a year.

"And imagine how different Brisbane would be if we had a train station at Gardens Point servicing the more than 30,000 people a day using QUT and the Botanic Gardens."

Mr Lucas said any new rail tunnels would complement the State Government's plans for a citywide busway network.

"The South East Busway is massively popular. And by mid next year we'll have the city link of the Inner Northern Busway finished. But we're also building the Boggo Rd Busway to the Dutton Park, the Eastern Busway to Coorparoo and ultimately to Capalaba and the Northern Busway to Kedron."

"Much of the public transport patronage growth over the last few years is down to the massive increase in State Government funding for bus services in and around Brisbane.

"For every dollar spent on bus services in the city of Brisbane, the State Government spends 72 cents compared to Brisbane City Council's 28 cents. And that might go higher given the Lord Mayor's comments earlier this year that it wasn't up to council to increase public transport services.

"That funding includes adding 148 new buses and 5000 extra services a week to the network over this financial year. Many of those services will be in places where we're already getting the most growth like Redcliffe, Logan and Ipswich and entirely funded by the State Government.

"This is will address peak demand on key services, increasing frequency and coverage of weekend services, and introducing new and better services to make the most of our infrastructure improvements.

"It's this commitment to funding new infrastructure, boosting services and planning not just for tomorrow but for the coming decades that will help reshape public transport in Brisbane."

Media inquiries: Robert Hoge 3237 1947


History of rail tunnel plans in Brisbane CBD

The Merivale Bridge, built in 1978, linked the north and south sides of the city in the central business district for the first time. Before that passenger trains on the south side of the city stopped at South Brisbane, while those on the north of the river stopped at Roma Street station.

Consideration was given to a second rail bridge possibly to be constructed at Kangaroo Point near the Captain Cook Bridge and linking to an underground system in the city. The proposal went no further.

Another significant upgrade to the system came in 1996 with quadruplication of the inner city rail network, with new tunnels between Roma Street and South Brisbane, in part to support the new Gold Coast services.

==============================================================

[ozbob]

RAIL Back On Track strongly supports the Ministerial Statement above.

For RAIL Back On Track Media Release --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=207.0

[SteelPan]

Good to see something happing.  (So a half-a-tick for Lucas first).
BUT, sadly, the difference between studying it and DOING it, is a mighty big one, particularly when, in my view, Brisbane has sadly, a pro-bus/do it on the cheap approach.
However, let's HOPE it does get the ultimate green light - because the clock is ticking given the planning and construction time frames involved in this type of project.
My suggests new stations are, the 'Gabba, (Kangaroo Pt??? Is this possible), QUT/Gardens (no doubt to be known as "Parliament"), somewhere around the bottom of Queen St/Eagle Street - and please, please Spring Hill, don't let the opportunity slip, then out to join up with an enhanced Ekka line and down to a repositioned Bowen Hills, a bit closer to the old Mayne Yards - giving then 2 corridors through the CBD, the Old existing and the "New proposed".  Let's HOPE!

[bernied]

A sticking point at the moment is the proposed development of North Bank. Unless North Bank goes ahead the State Govt, QR and Brisbane City Council will not invest in in any cross river train tunnel.

I suspect that those who want the train don't want the North Bank proposal. If I was a business owner in Public Transport, i wouldn't invest in any major work like cross river train tunnel unless i was guarenteed that North Bank was going ahead

[ozbob]

Fair comment, but the there will still be a need for underground extensions for rail regardless I believe.  It is forecast that by 2016 the rail capacity on the Merivale Bridge and CBD axis will be at complete saturation.

Some relief will need to be found.

Cheers
Ozbob

[Zoiks]

Im pretty sure the bridge is just about at capacity already during peak

[SteelPan]

why is the underground tunnel "conditional" upon "North Bank" - surely even dumb Q'land pollies can see the need to get on with the job??? 

[Markus]

A sticking point at the moment is the proposed development of North Bank. Unless North Bank goes ahead the State Govt, QR and Brisbane City Council will not invest in in any cross river train tunnel.

I suspect that those who want the train don't want the North Bank proposal. If I was a business owner in Public Transport, i wouldn't invest in any major work like cross river train tunnel unless i was guarenteed that North Bank was going ahead

-----------              ---------------                     ----------------
I cannot see why additional track capacity is dependent on the North Bank proposed development either.
Unless the developer of NorthBank is a likely developer of the rail.    Hmm   

[SteelPan]

Announced today - Northbank dead (postponed to be politically correct)
the idea sounded like the people of Brisbane being taken for dills by the developer all along to me, good to see sanity prevailed.

[ozbob]

Interesting short piece in the Courier Mail today 5 May 2008 not online page 12

[stephenk]

Seems a bit of a pie in the sky idea, and doesn't solve the problems of getting people into the city in the first place. The designer can't seem to decide on whether it is a triangular system, or 3 lines. Building and operating both would be very expensive, and operationally problematic. If it was to operate as a triangle it would have to have some very sharp bends! Also where would the depot be located? Suggested frequencies of 5-10mins wouldn't be justifiable! Make the trains shorter (like VAL systems), thus lowering building costs, and run them every 2 mins.


As I've mentioned before, we really need a new cross city rail tunnel connected to the existing network at each end to allow for expected passenger growth, and to create metro style rail services in Brisbane. At the moment comments from Captain Bligh seem to not mention the Central to Bowen Hills (via Exhibition) bit which is concerning.

[mufreight]

Whoever thought up the the proposal for the spaggetti junction underground system needs to have his head read, but he may have a problem there as no one else would read it so it would definately not be a best seller but I would like some of what he must be on.
The present need is for a heavy rail connection from the south side lines through the Brisbane CBD.
Such a line would relieve the strain on the Merivale Street bridge and the existing lines through the central city as well as providing rail services to the Gabba,QUT/Parliament House, Central, Spring Hill and Royal Brisbane Hospital.
Unfortunately a Metro system would not provide any much needed relief for the entire heavy rail system which a heavy underground system would provide possibly at an overall lesser cost.

[SteelPan]

Yep, couldn't agree more - the "metro" idea, whch has now been promoted for a few years, always really missed the OBVIOUS point.  The Govt will not establish a 2nd rail system - it just duplicates costs etc.  It will be a hard enough sell to get the flat-earthers who run QT to sign off on a heavy rail underground system through the CBD - luckily, its time does seen to have come, but the "metro" concept is just dangerous press at this time.

[glossyblack]

If there is any chance of new U/G systems being built,perhaps consideration should be given to NOT building it to narrow gauge but standard gauge and isolated from the narrow gauge network except at selected interchange points. This would allow for bigger loadings.
Could be similar to the way London's system joins selected lines only at certain stations.

[mufreight]

Any underground system built at present time needs to be compatable with the surface system to enable through routing of trains, a short system that was non compatable would compell users to change their mode of transport once more on each journey and that inconvenience may well be the turning point for many potential commuters, the less user friendly a system is the less people use it.
By all means build any new system to SG clearances but keep it compatable with the existing system, the object of the proposed new line is to encourage commuters out of their cars on to public transport by making it as convenient as possible for the greatest possible number of potential users.
The cost savings that compatability enhances are quite considerable and would well be the difference between having the proposal come to fruition or being destined to the bin.

[jason]

glossyblack has valid points, but commuter confidence and satisfaction drops when they have to change modes or even lines when travelling on public transport

To get the best result for coverage for all passengers on all lines, a new CBD lines need to be incorporated removing Central Station from the Urban network, instead as a loop from Roma Street to QUT, Riverside Centre, Brunswick Street, EKKA North, Normanby back to Roma Street

Central Should be used as an independant line similar to BOndi Junction line is in Sydney, say for Inter-urban from Rosewood (Possible Toowoomba Extension), Gold Coast to Brisbane Airport, North Coast and Sunshine Coast

[Markus]

Hi guys, It's a great day 2day to see the possibility of a New underground railway fr BNE prominently placed in the press today. I knw some may say they're only lines on a map but with Anna knowing she needs to pull a rabbit out of a hat I feel it's unlikely she'd be playing us fr fools in the current climate.

What really impresses me (after just one read) is the clarity of the route/s listed in the press along with alignments that cater for increased coverage of rail to a greater reach of locations. i.e. Great economic benefits.

NOW, I believe, is the time for us to not only chat amongst ourselves that it's a good idea, but to relay the benefits to family, friends, workmates et al. As a bonus, we got this good news on a Tuesday too, so we have 3 DAYS before another issue replaces the commuters' thoughts.

I'm being bold here in suggesting that good points to address are that:
- it may be partly Federally funded. A revolution for the governance of public transport in this country!
- It would be a Keystone project. Make rail THE transport mode to take in & near BNE CBD.
- Fully integrated with current PT rail. Im going to write to my MPs tomorrow (yes both - Fed & State) with my expectations that the platforms/ interchanges follow worlds best practice. i.e. That the interchange platforms are close, parrallel clear & wide ingress and egress, etc. even if it does cost a dollar or two extra.

Lets tell the decision-makers that we want this and nothing less guys 'n gals!

[Sunbus610]

The latest Inner City Rail Upgrade Study on Queensland Transport?s website

[mje772003]

I think the underground tunnel train system is going to be a dud as we need a tram network like melbourne.  It seems can't do Campbell and Bligh the builder think the solution to public transport and traffic conjestion is build a tunnel.  Its a joke as instead of being the river city we will be known as the tunnel city and am concerned as all this tunneling can't it cause problems with sinking like they have at collingwood park - redbank plains area?

Bring back the old tram network and more i say for public trans port relief
Matt

[mje772003]

I think the underground corridors would suck as if they are going to be under the existing rail net work as the government is proposing.

I think the money would be better spent on a light rail tram network instead like melbourne and bring back the old brisbane tram routes/lines.......It would be great to see the intact tram lines at carina back in use again.

[paulg]

I've just read through parts of the Stage 3 Technical Pre-feasibility Report for the Inner City Rail Capacity Study: http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Projects_and_initiatives/Projects/Inner_city_rail_upgrade//Publications_inner_city_rail_upgrade_project

It astonishes me that they have not considered an interchange with Central Station on the new Woollongabba-Bowen Hills alignment.

Instead there is a "CBD 1" Station with entrances at Edward/Elizabeth and Edward/Charlotte Sts. This has no interchange potential with the other existing rail alignment or any busway stations.

The planners have clearly had a CBD-centric view of public transport that needs to change if Brisbane is to get a usable, flexible system.

In Section 5.3.2.3 the authors even state: "There is no need for bus interchanging in the CBD." WHAT!?! The more interchange opportunities the better, especially in the CBD.

In my opinion, the alignment chosen in the study is fine, but there needs to be a QUT/Gardens/Riveside station, and then a station at Central shared with the existing lines.

Cheers, Paul

[ozbob]

Welcome Paul,  couldn't agree more!

Regards
Bob

[Derwan]

I think the idea is to have interchanges at Bowen Hills and the like - to reduce the number of people trying to get around in the inner-city stations.

[paulg]

If you want to get from Wooloongabba to Toowong (as I frequently do), going all the way to Bowen Hills is not convenient.

An interchange at Bowen Hills is great, but we need maximum interchangability and flexibility.

If Central is going to get crowded, build bigger underground spaces and wider corridors.

They can do it in the major interchanges in European systems, we can do it here too.

[paulg]

I think that the expense of the Wooloongabba-Bowen Hills proposal has been inflated by choosing a deep tunnel option.

Another possibility would be to tunnel through the rack under Wooloongabba but then to emerge at teh Kangaroo Pt Cliffs and directly onto a bridge over to the Gardens. Then a shallow cut-and-cover tunnel could be built through the Gardens and under Edward St to Central. The part from Central to Exhibition would still need to be a deep bored tunnel but the cost overall should be a lot smaller.

Cheers, Paul

[paulg]

Sorry for the random spelling, I clearly meant the "rock" under Wooloongabba

[stephenk]

I've just read through parts of the Stage 3 Technical Pre-feasibility Report for the Inner City Rail Capacity Study: http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Projects_and_initiatives/Projects/Inner_city_rail_upgrade//Publications_inner_city_rail_upgrade_project

It astonishes me that they have not considered an interchange with Central Station on the new Woollongabba-Bowen Hills alignment.

Instead there is a "CBD 1" Station with entrances at Edward/Elizabeth and Edward/Charlotte Sts. This has no interchange potential with the other existing rail alignment or any busway stations.

The planners have clearly had a CBD-centric view of public transport that needs to change if Brisbane is to get a usable, flexible system.

In Section 5.3.2.3 the authors even state: "There is no need for bus interchanging in the CBD." WHAT!?! The more interchange opportunities the better, especially in the CBD.

In my opinion, the alignment chosen in the study is fine, but there needs to be a QUT/Gardens/Riveside station, and then a station at Central shared with the existing lines.

Cheers, Paul

I totally agree, and mentioned this in the Inner City Rail Capacity Study thread. It would be inconvenient to many users if there is no interchange at Central.

[verbatim9]

A Light Rail Tram link between Indooroopilly - Ascot via West End City New Farm would be a great asset and popular profitable route passing through high density areas of Brisbane. You could utilise existing infrastructure as in the Eleanor Schonell and Victoria Bridge. The route could begin in Indooroopilly Shopping Centre in or near the Bus Station then follow a driven or cut and cover tunnel via Indooroopilly rail Station to UQ with a stop in-between over the Eleanor Schonell Bridge - then driven tunnel to Cultural Centre via West end. Over the river or under the river at the Victoria Bridge then Driven Tunnel to Parliament/QUT North to Valley East under the city with a stop inbetween - Valley East to New farm (driven tunnel) then New Farm to Newstead Drive tunnel. From Newstead to Ascot via a Tram/Bus Way along Kingsford Smith Drive (Tram/busway structure built along side Kingsford Smith Drive on the River)  to Racecourse Road Ascot following a loop along the Race Course Road then Lancaster Road back down Nudgee Road to Portside then back onto the Tram/bus way Direction Indooroopilly. This line would pay for itself very quickly as it would pass by two universities, high density living areas as well as the city centre. It can be a successful flagship line with other routes considered from that. Tram stock could be utilised from the same company building the light rail system on the Gold Coast. A win factor for all concerned.

[mufreight]

It would seem that unfortunately the reality that additional track capacity through the CBD is urgently required as is additional cross river track capacity if the rail system is not to choke.
That is the most urgent piece of transport infrastructure needed in comming years and that the so called expert transport planners fail to see either the urgency of the need for such a line or the practical advantages of this new line being routed so that it has stations that will provide additional coverage of the CBD and more interchange points with both bus and other rail links is beyond belief.
If the new line is built from Dutton Park via the Gabba it would be logical to have an interchange with the existing bus station, then to Gardens point with a station in the region of Parliament House/QUT with a point of connection to the City loop bus service then to Central with the new station under the existing station which would provide a rail to rail interchange there then continuing to a connection with the exhibition loop in close proximity to the Exhibition/RBH and the northern busway which could become another point for rail/bus interchange.
I might have it wrong but I have always been under the impression that public transport is supposed to provide a practical alternative to private transport and to encourage the maximum use it needs to be as attractive and convenient as possible to commuters not as would seem from the current proposals of these alegedly inteligent and highly qualified transport planners to be built at the greatest possible cost to the public and to be built in such a was as to minimise rather than maximise its potential convenience and atractiveness to commuters.