Mu Operation.

[mufreight]

With a number of different types of Electric Multiple Unit sets now in operation what are their capability to run multiple with sets of a different model.
ENU sets have often been operated in multiple with ICE sets but can they operate in multiple with the early SMU and 260 series SMU units or with EMU units and if not why?

[Derwan]

This was raised in the SMU 260 Sightings Thread.

I'm not sure about compatibility issues - but they would certainly look ugly. 

[mufreight]

The asthetics of such operation of hibrid sets obviously is questionable no matter how interesting for enthusiasts but the question is compatibility.  Can they operate in multiple and what issues of compatibility that would impede such operation might arise.

[mufreight]

Still seeking information your help would be appreciated.
Can anyone please provide information on the multiple unit compatibility of the various types of electrics currently in service to operate in multiple?

[STB]

From what I've heard...but am happy to be corrected

EMUs can run in revenue service with an ICE, although from what I believe the ICE is restricted to running revenue Nambour/Gympie North runs, so you won't see it in suburbia unless it's for a charter or something similar, ie: I've only ever seen an ICE once at Shorncliffe a few years ago where there were QR people on board for some reason, possibly training?

SMU Mk Is (200 series) can run in revenue service with an SMU Mk II and vice versa

IMU 100s can run in revenue service with an IMU 120 and vice versa

IMU 160s can run in revenue service with an SMU 260

EMUs cannot run in revenue service with SMUs and IMUs

SMU 200s and 220s cannot run in revenue service with EMUs or IMUs or the SMU260s

IMU 160s cannot run in revenue service with EMUs, IMU 100s/120s and SMU 200s and 220s

You might only see that happen if they are towing a dead unit.

[O_128]

why doe QR constantly move its trains around just keep SMU 261 and 262 together why is that sometime i see 261 and 269 together it is stupid

[Arnz]

why doe QR constantly move its trains around just keep SMU 261 and 262 together why is that sometime i see 261 and 269 together it is stupid

Its not stupid.  Its just common sense to pair to whatever unit (of the same type of course) which happens to near each other at the time.  For example, IMU121 might do a 3-car empty running to Beenleigh, after doing a Corinda run (via Tennyson) for example, then pair with IMU123 for a morning peak run.

Also to add, the 60-79 series EMU has to be paired to another 3-car EMU since those specific EMUs only have a single end Driver unit.

[mufreight]

60 - 79 series EMU units are frequently paired with other EMU units from either the first series or unit 80 onwards, so they are obviously compatiable the question is if units from other series are compatiable with the EMU sets and other series units.
Can for instance a first series SMU multiple with the latest 260 series SMU units ot indeed with the 160 series IMU units.

[STB]

Hi mufreight,

Based on my earlier post, see below.

The answer would be no in revenue service, shunting and towing, possibly yes.

Hope this helps  .

From what I've heard...but am happy to be corrected

EMUs can run in revenue service with an ICE, although from what I believe the ICE is restricted to running revenue Nambour/Gympie North runs, so you won't see it in suburbia unless it's for a charter or something similar, ie: I've only ever seen an ICE once at Shorncliffe a few years ago where there were QR people on board for some reason, possibly training?

SMU Mk Is (200 series) can run in revenue service with an SMU Mk II and vice versa

IMU 100s can run in revenue service with an IMU 120 and vice versa

IMU 160s can run in revenue service with an SMU 260

EMUs cannot run in revenue service with SMUs and IMUs

SMU 200s and 220s cannot run in revenue service with EMUs or IMUs or the SMU260s

IMU 160s cannot run in revenue service with EMUs, IMU 100s/120s and SMU 200s and 220s

You might only see that happen if they are towing a dead unit.

[mufreight]

Many thanks STB the next question is WHY the incompatibility between the different series of sets, it restricts operational flexibility and the avaliability of sets.
Anyone have anything more to contribute on this subject.

[STB]

Negative, you can run any train (Except the ICE) on any line, there is no loss in capacity overall, although of course it wouldn't be ideal to run an EMU on the Gold Coast line where the max speeds are 140km/hr, where EMUs can only go as fast as 100km/hr.  The only exception other than the ICE would be the 60-79 EMU units which can only run as a six car set, back in the 70s and 80s while they were being delivered they did discover the inflexibility of having only six car sets and therefore ordered three car sets only afterwards.

Just some examples, I have seen IMUs running on the Ipswich line, EMUs on the Gold Coast line (as said earlier, not ideal), SMU IIs on the Nambour line etc...

[O_128]

Why can ICEs run on any line?
Also if another country can build the smae train for a cheaper cost than why not.
Also japan has the highest reliability int he world just looka t there cars and NSW is getting there train built in china but fianl fitout in NSW so id say mainly the carige itself is built ther and all wiring done here

[richard]

mufreight - I have always been led to believe that incompatability is caused by improvements in technology for each new type.  Some EMUs are more than 30 years old now (the technology older) - it would be folly to be still building them.  And the mu requirements for an emu would, I think, be signifiicantly more complex than those for a DEL or EL.

[STB]

Why can ICEs run on any line?
Also if another country can build the smae train for a cheaper cost than why not.
Also japan has the highest reliability int he world just looka t there cars and NSW is getting there train built in china but fianl fitout in NSW so id say mainly the carige itself is built ther and all wiring done here

The ICE was initially built to be a traveltrain, not a suburban service.  It was designed to run long distances without stopping and the interior and door structure was built in the same sense.  It was never meant to be constantly stopping and having the doors constantly open and shut. I guess the closest example could be having a bullet train do a suburban service, if the mechanicals to run the train are pushed to do the same thing on a more constant level, they will fail faster than it's design parameters allowed it, plus the parts nowadays are more difficult to secure as technology has surpassed what they have built in.  Hence a fail rate is much higher.

The EMUs on the other hand were made to do suburban services, the design was built in to allow constant stopping and starting and they are still quite highly reliable nowadays, despite being 30 years old plus.

Having them built in Japan or China, or wherever isn't going to solve reliability, they're fail rate will equal the design parameters equally.  Plus having them built locally does help create jobs for the local population, and it allows servicing and parts to be obtained more easily.