Seniors travel in South East Queensland

[ozbob]

Seniors travel in South East Queensland

https://translink.com.au/seniorstravel

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1178517916444020737

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Schrinner/status/1178777044861108224

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

[ozbob]

BCC: Free off-peak travel for seniors

https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-and-transport/public-transport/free-off-peak-travel-for-seniors

[SurfRail]

Very magnanimous of them to get it to apply to everybody. 

The state really should be taking care of this now, it's becoming farcical how complicated its getting.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1178784857922555905

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/team_schrinner/status/1178843579088654336

[aldonius]

I see there's a thread on FB about extending it to everybody.
While I generally agree with "there needs to be a farebox", I also think in SEQ we certainly have scope in general to discount off-peak fares more heavily relative to peak.
I think it's quite likely that the marginal cost of running peak service is quite a bit higher than 20% per passenger. (Not outrageously different, probably more like 30% rather than 20%. But of course the frequency is worse off peak, so it's a worse service.)

[ozbob]

The present differential is 20% for go card.  What would you like to see Aldonius?

Opal (Sydney) off peak is 30% cheaper

Vline is 30% cheaper off peak.

[verbatim9]

The present differential is 20% for go card.  What would you like to see Aldonius?

Opal (Sydney) off peak is 30% cheaper

Vline is 30% cheaper off peak.

30% would be an improvement and the off-peak time extended until 6.30am.

[aldonius]

Off peak fares should be set to aggressively target patronage. I want to see patronage levels that support 15 minute frequency or better on all major corridors, 18 hours a day, seven days a week. We'll need that and more, to shake off car dependence.

30% is probably fairly close to the actual marginal-cost factor. I'd suggest going as much as 50% if that's what it takes to get patronage up.

[SurfRail]

I'd accept 25% combined with free travel for anybody with a senior's card and anybody under 18.  These have to be network wide as opposed to the current kludges.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/brisbanecityqld/status/1178868047576064002

[Stillwater]

Note: "Normal off-peak fares will apply for travel on CityCat and ferry services on weekends and Queensland public holidays that fall on weekends."

[ozbob]

Note: "Normal off-peak fares will apply for travel on CityCat and ferry services on weekends and Queensland public holidays that fall on weekends."

They are usually very full on weekends.

[ozbob]

Transperth: Seniors SmartRider you will be able to travel for free on any Transperth bus, train or ferry at the following times:

From first service until 6am
From 9am until 3.30pm
From 7pm until last service
All day Saturday, Sunday and public holidays.
Concession fares at other times

https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/smartrider/types-of-smartrider/seniors-smartrider

====

Adelaide Metro: Seniors Card members can travel free on bus, train and trams at all times other than the morning and afternoon peak weekday periods of 7.01 am to 9.00 am and 3.01 pm to 7.00 pm, where seniors discounted concession rates continue to apply (approximately 50% discount).

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Tickets-Fares/metroCARD/Seniors-Card

====

Victoria: Seniors myki gives you:

A 50 per cent discount on trains, trams and buses, including V/Line trains and coaches.
Free weekend travel in any two consecutive zones and on regional town buses.
Access to free travel vouchers (two each year if you live in metropolitan Melbourne and four if you live in regional Victoria).
Free travel during the annual Victorian Seniors Festival

https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/myki/concessions-and-free-travel/seniors/

====

ACT: Canberra eligible senior and concession MyWay card holders travel for free between 9am and 4.30pm and after 6pm weekdays, plus all day Saturday, Sunday and on public holidays.

https://www.transport.act.gov.au/tickets-and-myway/get-myway

====

NSW: Seniors have the Opal Gold Card - capped daily fares, presently $2.50. Also regional seniors are entitled to $2.50 all day travel on NSW TrainLink and local buses.

https://transportnsw.info/tickets-opal/ticket-eligibility-concessions/seniors

[Stillwater]

Free off-peak travel on BCC buses and ferries is an election sweetener from LNP-controlled City Hall.  We could expect a more attractive offer for train travel seniors off-peak from one or both of the major political parties in the lead-up to next year's state election, probably more so from Labor, as an older demographic more inclined to vote conservative, generally speaking.

[James]

Fare fail claims another victim - you would have less of an issue with councils offering free travel for seniors if it was easier for them to buy a cheap yearly pass, if fares were more affordable or if daily caps applied.

Really, the most recent reform did not go far enough for seniors. Next Generation Ticketing taking too long to roll out. Disappointing.

[achiruel]

Fare fail claims another victim - you would have less of an issue with councils offering free travel for seniors if it was easier for them to buy a cheap yearly pass, if fares were more affordable or if daily caps applied.

Really, the most recent reform did not go far enough for seniors. Next Generation Ticketing taking too long to roll out. Disappointing.

(emphasis added)

Daily caps already apply for seniors. Two journeys in one day, the rest are free.

[ozbob]

The two journey daily cap is not equitable.  In regions of low public transport frequency doesn't always work out well.

Daily caps are best as flat amounts, eg. Sydney Opal.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Schrinner/status/1191108202718322689

[Gazza]

https://twitter.com/Schrinner/status/1191108202718322689

Seniors and Freebies, name a more iconic duo.

[achiruel]

The two journey daily cap is not equitable.  In regions of low public transport frequency doesn't always work out well.

Daily caps are best as flat amounts, eg. Sydney Opal.

I don't have an issue with that, I do have an issue with services being completely free. No payment = no value, in the minds of many people.

[ozbob]

Flat daily caps as for the Opal are the best way of giving Seniors affordable public transport travel. 

It is equitable for all the Senior cohort, and encourages correct use of the ticketing (eg. touch on, touch off etc.).

I have been the recipient of Seniors free travel in Canberra and Adelaide.  I have also used the Gold Opal this year.   I feel comfortable with the Opal and frankly just feel like a free-loader with the outright free travel.

[Gazza]

If it were up to me, i would just tie it to the cost of a certain fare type (Eg pay a maximum of 2 zones per day) rather than a fixed amount ($2.50 like in NSW)

This way at least the fare can be indexed each year and you aren't stuck with faux outrage if you dare change the price from $2.50.

[ozbob]

Cap should be increased in line with any fare increases agreed.  I think the Opal Gold cap is going up.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Seniors' public transport use surges after free travel offer

Seniors have taken up Brisbane City Council's free off-peak travel on public transport incentive, with a 35 per cent increase in travel between October and December 2019, compared with 2018.

The $3.2 million budget promise from the LNP administration was announced last year with all buses, CityCats and CityHoppers included in the off-peak travel allowance.

Lord mayor Adrian Schrinner said the take-up of the new incentive had been "phenomenal" with the 35 per cent increase in seniors travelling over the three months to the end of 2019 according to council data.

"This free travel initiative has helped make Brisbane better by easing the cost of living but also helps ensure our seniors in society aren't isolated," Cr Schrinner said.

Lord mayor Adrian Schrinner said the take-up of the new incentive had been "phenomenal" with the 35 per cent increase in seniors travelling over the three months to the end of 2019 according to council data.

"This free travel initiative has helped make Brisbane better by easing the cost of living but also helps ensure our seniors in society aren't isolated," Cr Schrinner said.

[#Metro]

What were the absolute numbers?

[AnonymouslyBad]

^ My question too. 135% of not many is still not many. I'm also not convinced it's impressive given we're talking about literally free travel.

BCC, of course, probably don't want this initiative to be too successful: they mostly want it to look good. Either that, or the budgeted numbers are complete fiction since patronage growth destroys them.
Cheap off-peak travel (including daily caps) would have been the correct policy here. It's a win-win situation, because it reduces the barrier to travel, but seats are filled that otherwise would be making zero. Instead, council have decided they're going to pay Translink $3-$5 every time a senior gets on a bus, which is not a sustainable thing they can actually do. They just need to keep it up long enough to a) get re-elected, and b) make it an issue that the state isn't footing the bill instead.

[SurfRail]

GCCC has been doing it for years, it's not that much of a worry for me.  The worry is that once again the system is fracturing on local government lines.  When it was only GCCC and there was no light rail it was fine because there was less limited scope for intermodal interchange.  Rather different now.

[ozbob]

Something I was not aware of.

The free trips on BCC buses out of peak  apparently count as paid journeys using Seniors Go card ...

Eg.  Recent go history Seniors card

11 Oct 2020

09:21 AM   Goodna   10:06 AM   Central   $ 1.64       $ 10.84   
11:05 AM   Adelaide St at City Hall (Stop 20)   11:07 AM   Adelaide St F/S Edward St (Stop 25)   $ 0.00       $ 10.84   
12:44 PM   Adelaide St opp DJ's (Stop 23)   12:52 PM   St Pauls Terrace - 5   $ 0.00       $ 10.84   
01:33 PM   Warner Street - Stop 204   01:41 PM   Adelaide St opp City Plaza (Stop 46)   $ 0.00       $ 10.84   
05:05 PM   Central   06:09 PM   Goodna   $ 0.00       $ 10.84   

====

So possible to rack up two free paid journeys on BCC and then travel free to Gold Coast ...   

I don't this was deliberate but a consequence of programming limitations.

[ozbob]

^ confirmed officially - system issue with the go card technology, it counts all trips towards the cap even if they're free.

====

My own take is in view of the looming introduction of the smart ticketing, I expect the cost of program changes are probably not worth it.   And BCC is reimbursing TransLink for the free trips ( at least on the buses ).   Not sure about rail fares foregone.

[ozbob]

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2023/292-2023.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 292
Asked on 29 March 2023

MRS L GERBER ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to seniors receiving free bus tickets from the Gold Coast City Council and the
state government not offering this to seniors for the Gold Coast light rail—
Will the Minister introduce free tickets for seniors using the light rail, if the light rail is going to
replace some of the bus routes on the Gold Coast, and given the rising cost of living?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Currumbin for the question.

Gold Coast Light Rail is a stellar public transport success story and has caused a shift towards
public transport from private motor vehicles on the Gold Coast. That's why the Palaszczuk
Government, in partnership with Gold Coast City Council and the Australian Government, is
extending light rail to Burleigh Heads with a business case to further extend light rail to
Coolangatta underway.

Public transport services including light rail, buses and heavy rail are designed to complement
each other and deliver an integrated transport system that allows the community to easily get
around the Gold Coast.

Similar to Stages 1 and 2 of Gold Coast Light Rail, light rail will replace some bus services as
part of any future stages.

Australians with a valid Seniors Card from any state or territory are already eligible for a 50 per
cent concession fare on all forms of Translink supported public transport services. In Queensland,
the Seniors Card is issued by the Department of Seniors, Disability Services and Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander Partnerships.

The Palaszczuk Government currently subsidises public transport costs by around 80 per cent.
Provision of free transport for seniors has been implemented on some bus networks and funded
by local governments. Questions about discounts above and beyond the 50 per cent concession
fare on Gold Coast Light Rail should be directed to Gold Coast City Council.

[Jonno]

Just say No

[SurfRail]

I'd rather GCCC spent the money on funding better bus services in the north and west of the city.  Differential fare systems like this aren't ideal, especially (as the Member for Currumbin has accurately identified) the light rail network will continue to replace the busiest line haul bus corridor until it is basically no longer there except in little chunks.  Far better to do it on a Statewide basis if at all.

[ozbob]

Tend to agree SurfRail.  Being a Seniors Go Card holder I find the fares are very fair and reasonable, particularly with the two and then free, which is easily manipulated for free travel if so motivated.
Having said that, I think a flat cap would be more equitable, particularly for people in more isolated PT territory, who do find it difficult to use the two and free to full effect.

[SurfRail]

Whatever the approach it shows the problems with having different outcomes depending on which LGA you are in.

While I didn't have much opportunity to do a lot in Perth (most of my recent trip was in regional WA), even the brief taste was enough to remind me just how backwards everything here is.  All aspects of the passenger experience are coordinated in WA whether metropolitan or regional and regardless of mode, down to the fonts used.  No such thing here.

[#Metro]

I generally do not agree with gimmicks being added to the system because it tends to grow, morph, and complicate over time into a mess.

If they want to bring fares down for seniors then the way to do it is across all councils in the TransLink SEQ zone by doing a single agreement brokered by the SEQ Council of Mayors. You would have one agreement and one rate, and any changes would affect all LGAs.

 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Or simply have councils butt out and have a proper dedicated public transport body with proper funding. Something that we don't have now.