Some Citytrain network proposals

[Rail Rookie]

I believe I read on BrizCommuter forum that we need a new tunnel for Brisbane soon and that Centenary Suburbs area could be where this tunnel goes (also lacks good PT). Expanding on this I thought of what could be a possible solution for these, but also future rail lines for Ipswich/Centenary Regions.



Green Line - follows the proposed Ripley line from Springfield to USQ, but instead of doing the loop (which Ripley line proposes connecting to Ipswich Line) I have the line going U/G from USQ with stations at Ipswich Hospital, Riverlink and heading above ground towards Tivoli. My thoughts are that it would either terminate here to begin with, but in the future it would continue towards Mt Ommaney and then to Indro, where it would tunnel to UQ and come up near current Cleveland line (terminating around Murarrie with stabling yard).

Purple Line - expansion at some point when Ripley Line is quad track, would be elevated track.

Red Line - Probably has to tunnel from East Ipswich and go to Brassall, ending at Walloon. Either have a station near Ipswich Jets for proposed North Ipswich Stadium and one at Riverlink. I'm not a fan of stadium there, so I would just leave to having Riverlink Station.

Springfield Line - Instead of heading to Darra station, it would continue going straight heading towards Jindalee and onto Indro. Tunnelling at Mt Ommaney would be needed and emerging at Jindalee and onto Kenmore. Would either use tunnel to UQ/Cleveland or would tunnel to West End (similar to Brisbane Subway proposal in SEQ2031) with two stations, but it would head to Central, Howardsmith wharf, Teneriffe, Hawthorne and to Cannon Hill where it connects to Cleveland station. So this is the Clevwich line that the Minerva Plan states, but slightly different.

Ipswich Line - could possibly quad track all the way from Ipswich to Darra, as Springfield line no longer using tracks. Have fast rail from Ipswich to Central. See below more about tunnel from Milton to Doomben (Red Line). Minerva Plan stated we needed to tunnel from around Milton due to Merivale tracks merging with Ipswich Line, leaving Ipswich track with 2. This tunnel makes my Tennyson Blue line possible (I believe).

Blue Line - would start at USQ and do the loop to Ipswich Station, but go U/G until Ipswich Racecourse and head to Oxley. Would either take Tennyson Line or use Ipswich line (so replacing current Springfield line from Darra to City). In my GRAND SCHEME using Tennyson Line this would follow the 3 tracks (1 for freight) to South Brisbane and then follow mains line to Eagle Junction where it would break into a new line to Doomben, which would be a transit hub (removing the racetrack). The Purple Line would be an extension that heads U/G towards Exhibition Station and follows the current surface track, but heads U/G again from Roma to UQ. Would it be better to make it a Metro for the whole line if it was independent? This line would serve Collingwood Park/Forest Lake/Inala areas that have had growth and could continue to with this line, as long as bus connections are there (as stated on this forum).

North Coast Line - current line would be quad tracked from Bald Hills to Northgate, but would head towards North Lakes/Burpengary (instead of Strathpine). Might have been BrizCommuter saying something how IA stated this area has the greatest growth and potential for PT/rail. Line would terminate at Caboolture. Quad tracks split at Griffin into two lines before joining back at East Burpengary. So the Current North Coast Line will use the NWTC Line.   

Red Line - All underground line. New station at Spring Hill, Teneriffe, Bulimba, Hamilton, Doomben, DFO, Northgate and then either Virginia or Sunshine. Possibly get rid of Virginia station.
Red Line (Mains) - 2 tracks will be used from Roma to Nundah, where the line is slightly changed where it misses Northgate and Virginia (making a slightly better alignment).

Ferny Grove Line - would be turned into a 3-car metro system running every 3-minutes, but could make 6-car in peak hour. Would tunnel from Windsor to Northshore (serving olympic village) where it will slowly get elevated track at Doomben and head to Northgate and cut West towards Chermside. Will follow a circular pattern where it will meet back onto the FG line. Possibly use Tafe QLD Grovely Campus as rail yard. This means those stations past Oxford Park are removed. This will help those on northside to swap lines away from city. Would connect to busway at chermside shops. It also uses FG existing infrastructure. 

Grey Lines - One going through City is the original CRR proposal, but it tunnels near Kelvin Grove road and have station West side of QUT Campus and head towards Newmarket where it would have station at McDonalds area. Second grey line would have instead of having 2 tracks go through Merivale Bridge etc (as proposed for ideal CRR track layout). I have another tunnel going from Yeerongpilly to Alderley. This gives it a very straight line, serves UQ easily and provides new stations at Red Hill etc. It would connect with Milton station which serves Suncorp. I would look to turn the Brewery into another transit hub etc. but that's a hard sell (but heck all these ideas could be absolute BS). This straighter line serving NWTC could be used as fast rail to connect to GC maybe? Robina - Milton - Maroochydoore.

Green Line - As Gazza has discussed with a possible line coming from Runcorn to Sunnybank etc. My line sort of follows it but keeps going east and then North to service East of Pacfic Hwy better. Tunnel between Holland Park/Coorparoo it would go to New Farm, Teneriffe, Newstead (connect with purple line and Bowen Hills ish, perry park developed into botique stadium 10k capacity), Albion Raceway (redeveloped for anything else besides race track), continuing on to Eagle Junction Station that has been slightly moved to make line straight to Nundah. The line heads towards Shorncliff line where trains could turn back around Banyo, as capacity isn't needed for 24 t/hr.

I'm curious to see if any of these lines would make practical sense and then could they see the light of day with funding? I have absolutely no knowledge in engineering, planning or rail systems. Just interested in how QLD/SEQ can be better when it comes to PT! I have many posts from this forum to still read. I was going to split these ideas up, but then thought it might be hard to understand each idea if the whole picture wasn't given.

[Rail Rookie]

Other images for previous post

[ozbob]

Welcome RR.



Thanks for your proposals.  I have split your posts off into its own thread, will make is easier to follow discussion.

" Springfield Line - Instead of heading to Darra station, it would continue going straight heading towards Jindalee and onto Indro. "

Interestingly, this has been discussed here before.  It will take time to discuss your proposals but well done on your work.

[BrizCommuter]

Quite a foam party! Might need to do something about level crossings before running 20tph on the Ferny Grove Line 
A new tunnel to relieve pressure on the Ipswich/Springfield Lines will eventually be required. However, I can't see this happening for decades. ETCS L2 should at least allow for a 20% short term increase in capacity on the Mains. Priority infrastructure projects using the existing core network + CRR are:
- North West Transportation Corridor
- Salisbury to Beaudesert Line
- Duplicate Cleveland Line
- Gold Coast/Beenleigh Line enhancements - notably Dutton Park to Salisbury, and Kuraby to Beenleigh, increased turnback capacity.
- Ripley Valley Extension
- Doomben Line to Northshore Hamilton
- CAMCOS - Caloundra and Maroochydore
- Extend Gold Coast Line to Coolangatta Airport
- 4th Platform/Electrification through Oxley
- ETCS entire CityTrain network

[Gazza]

Are the blue markers station locations?

If so I think if you have too many stations (like infill stations on the FG line) it would just make it too slow.

I think BrizCommuter has summed up the rail priorities well.
In particular Ripley Valley could probably be done as a single 11km extension rather than staging it to Redbank Plains (School Rd).

[Redrient]

Hi there,

I'm a long-time lurker and love to follow all the interesting discussions that go on here as well.

You've got some interesting proposals - including a proposed station almost underneath my house in Deception Bay .

I will try to speak to what I know, which is my local area around north Brisbane/Moreton Bay. Like you, this is not my area of expertise!

Firstly, I would say that I love the idea of a train line closer to me than either having to drive to Rothwell or Narangba stations... but I would imagine it is neither realistic nor necessary given the overall suburban layout of the area.

The first issue we have around my local area is the bus network is... how do I say... diabolical. The routes are infrequent and often winding, which is why I drive to either Rothwell or Narangba stations when I have to go into the office (which thanks to COVID is not that often anymore), despite having the Deception Bay bus station at the local shopping centre essentially across the road. There are some core trunk bus routes that should exist from or around Deception Bay that should probably trim the winding parts of their routes and be supported by the creation of straighter, rapid routes supported by the winding sections becoming their own routes, originating and terminating at key bus interchanges. Things like Caboolture - Deception Bay - Redcliffe (via Kippa Ring and/or Dolphins Stadium when there are events, especially if they win the bid for the NRL expansion) which does already essentially exist; Deception Bay - Narangba; and Deception Bay - Rothwell (or Mango Hill) and North Lakes seem like obvious direct routes to have... and it might help their reliability if they had priority on Deception Bay Road and Anzac Ave during peak periods. I've heard stories about how long it takes to get to North Lakes from Deception Bay by bus on the weekend and it is no surprise people do not use them.

For my region, I like to think therefore about what is realistic and will make an impactful difference. Bus network reform is a must - but if we are talking about rail upgrades for my area, my top priorities would be the following (in no particular order):
(1) North-West Transit Corridor/Trouts Rd Corridor - build this line, including a functional connection to CRR all the way in the city (i.e. not sharing Ferny Grove tracks at all) - this would provide a good corridor suitable for faster rail operations.
(2) Northgate (or at minimum Strathpine) to Petrie quadruplication - seems essential to support faster rail operations to make the most of NWTC. Between Strathpine and Northgate would provide some additional utility given the section is shared with freight as well. The section is relatively straight (short of the last curve into Petrie and is already quad track), but the corridor is constrained in width at a few points. The intermediate stations currently have three platforms, but probably require only two if that widens the corridor at key squeeze points.
(3) Fast(er) rail solutions north of Petrie - It is not ideal for freight trains to have to share tracks with a frequent fast(er) rail network, should one be formed for the Sunshine Coast - a proposition I strongly support. Therefore, I imagine a solution needs to be devised between Petrie and (presumably) Beerwah where the coastal route will deviate from the main line.
(4) Level crossing removal. All existing level crossings should be removed (probably as far as Nambour, at least to Caboolture North/Pumicestone Rd) and be a mandatory feature of any relignment or duplication projects. In my area, they're at Northgate, Virginia (Sunshine Station), Carseldine (which is already being planned), Strathpine, Bray Park/Lawnton, Narangba, Burpengary, Morayfield and Caboolture (there are a few north of the station before the upgraded 160kph section). To support the safety of 160kph operation of (at least tilting) trains in the future, get rid of them and commit to no level crossings in future.
(5) Sunshine Coast coastal route - At least as far as Caloundra stop faffing about and get it done.
(6) Beerwah - Nambour realignment and duplication - Also stop faffing about and get it done. Truncating the Stage 1 upgrade to Beerwah and not Landsborough was kind of... outrageous.

Outside of my region I support the initiatives the members have been proposing for years. How simple projects like the 4th track electrification through Oxley, other level crossing removal projects, extension of the Doomben line to Hamilton and easier duplications such as the Cleveland line are big examples of how skewed transport network priorities are towards inefficient and largely ineffective motorway enhancements.

Right now, I hope the planners of the Kuraby - Beenleigh revisions have the guts to put up a plan that would be truly innovative and revolutionise travel to the Gold Coast. We're only going to get this opportunity once in the next 50 years most likely, and I hope very much they get it right. If we can score a win there, maybe there's also hope to fix the section inbound from there, too... including the obvious problems the current 3-track issue the current CRR design will create.

[Rail Rookie]

Welcome RR.



Thanks for your proposals.  I have split your posts off into its own thread, will make is easier to follow discussion.

" Springfield Line - Instead of heading to Darra station, it would continue going straight heading towards Jindalee and onto Indro. "

Interestingly, this has been discussed here before.  It will take time to discuss your proposals but well done on your work.

Thanks Ozbob, I know I can search for key terms and find discussions on different topics, but if there are discussions already (such as Springfield Line to Jindalee etc.) that you would recommend is there anyway you can point me in the right direction? I'd rather that I read what's already been discussed than have people repeat themselves  

[Rail Rookie]

Quite a foam party! Might need to do something about level crossings before running 20tph on the Ferny Grove Line 
A new tunnel to relieve pressure on the Ipswich/Springfield Lines will eventually be required. However, I can't see this happening for decades. ETCS L2 should at least allow for a 20% short term increase in capacity on the Mains. Priority infrastructure projects using the existing core network + CRR are:
- North West Transportation Corridor
- Salisbury to Beaudesert Line
- Duplicate Cleveland Line
- Gold Coast/Beenleigh Line enhancements - notably Dutton Park to Salisbury, and Kuraby to Beenleigh, increased turnback capacity.
- Ripley Valley Extension
- Doomben Line to Northshore Hamilton
- CAMCOS - Caloundra and Maroochydore
- Extend Gold Coast Line to Coolangatta Airport
- 4th Platform/Electrification through Oxley
- ETCS entire CityTrain network

Hi BrizCommuter, just wanted to say that your website/articles really got me interested in this area/topics! I'm all for making the current system work as effectively as possible before anything else, especially level crossings on FG, Beenleigh etc. So I absolutely know many of these ideas may be distant or just not needed, but I am curious if there have been discussions on what corridors need protecting or bought now for projects in 20 years time? One rail corridor coming from the South doesn't seem great, but I do understand we have the busway as well. I think overpopulation is a real issue and needs to be addressed, but for arguments sake would we just need to have better planning policies in the future for building apartments etc. where stations/rail lines are now or are there areas that we need to buy now? Again, if there has been a discussion about this can someone point me in the right direction Would the milton tunnel proposal or Cannon Hill tunnel proposal be something that would be needed in the next decade?

[Rail Rookie]

Are the blue markers station locations?

If so I think if you have too many stations (like infill stations on the FG line) it would just make it too slow.

I think BrizCommuter has summed up the rail priorities well.
In particular Ripley Valley could probably be done as a single 11km extension rather than staging it to Redbank Plains (School Rd).

Hi Gazza, yes the blue dots were representing stations. I put some thought into where stations may go, but it was generally trying to have stations <1km for metro and generally 1.5-2km for heavy rail.

[Gazza]

For metro, 1km apart is good for dense areas,

But for heavy rail, they should be around 3-6km apart.

Karana Downs doesn't need 4 stations for example.