Inner South (Park Rd-South Brisbane)

[achiruel]

I note on the July 29 timetable, the issue with uneven frequency on this section hasn't been fixed. There are waits of up to 13 minutes off-peak weekdays; this is not acceptable when running 10 tph. Let's ignore the GC trains for now, as I understand they need to run in some relation to the Beenleigh line, and that leaves 8tph, or every 7.5 minutes. 2 x Beenleigh, 2 x Coopers Plains, 2 x Cleveland, 2 x Cannon Hill. Is there some reason consistent 8tph cannot be achieved?

[verbatim9]

If the timetable was 20 minutes or better going South to Kurraby and Cannon Hill? Stations like Park road, Southbank and South Brisbane would end up with a frequency of 10 minutes or better off peak and 5mins or better during peak.

[SurfRail]

All they need is to space the Cleveland and Beenleigh services better.

[STB]

All they need is to space the Cleveland and Beenleigh services better.

How would you do that without impacting the connections at Park Road, and the single track section between Manly and Cleveland?

The times were changed a while back as you had Cleveland trains arriving at the same time as Gold Coast trains were departing etc, they moved the times to make sure there were connections between the 3 lines.  I remember it being a common complaint at the community line groups for the Cleveland line in particular - at one point in timetable, you could wait up to an hour to transfer between Cleveland and Gold Coast lines at night at Park Road as you had both trains arriving at the same time (Cleveland train departing on Platform 1 at the same time a train from the GC arriving on Platform 3).

I'm happy to take a little look at it with a simple mock up using the current run times between the various stations, have to keep in mind though of the factors that the timetable has to take into account, such as reasonable connection times between Cleveland/Beenleigh/Gold Coast trains, the paths through the city, the turnback times at the various terminuses (Shorncliffe, Beenleigh, Varsity Lakes, Cleveland, Domestic Airport) - requires a minimum amount of time to turnback a train without the use of a turnback crew, the single track section between Manly and Cleveland, and Sandgate and Shorncliffe, and Eagle Junction and International Airport, and the 15min frequency between Northgate, Coopers Plains and Cannon Hill, and their turnback times once they terminate - while avoiding conflicts.

[SurfRail]

It has to be possible to deliver a better result than is currently on foot - bottom line is I don't trust QR to get it right, ever.  There is more than ample proof of that.  QR is principally oriented around the needs of its own network and not passengers, no matter what they say.

Infrastructure, industrial and other limitations do exist, but they aren't a crutch for putting in like 60-70% effort in actually delivering something useful for customers.  There are 10 trains an hour through South Bank in the off-peak, no reason why the maximum interval shouldn't be below 10 minutes. 

With trains running half-hourly on all lines until late there's also no reason why anybody would be waiting for anything like an hour at Park Road to make any connection.

[achiruel]

Going by the forthcoming 29 July 2019 timetable:

During weekday inter-peak, trains depart Park Rd at :12, :14, :17, :27, :29, :42, :44, :47, :57, :59.
Largest gaps are 13 minutes from :29 to :42, and 13 minutes again from :59 to :12.

On Sundays, trains depart Park Rd at :12, :17, :29, :42, :47, :59 (there's an extra service at :09 on Saturdays).
So at 10tph the biggest gap is 13 minutes. And at 6tph the biggest gap is...13 minutes.

There is something seriously wrong with a rail operator that runs an extra 4 tph but the largest service gap doesn't decrease!

Regarding connections, the connection time from Beenleigh i/b to Cleveland o/b is 18 minutes. The reverse is also 18 minutes. And you're trying to argue QR cares about connection times? If they did it'd be < 15 for sure.
And the short workings (i.e. Coopers Plains i/b to Cannon Hill o/b and vice-versa) give an interchange time of 3 minutes, which is cutting it very fine and may be far too short for the mobility impaired, or basically anyone if one train runs a bit late. Complex interchanges requiring multiple lifts/ramps should really allow 6 minutes minimum. The fact is, as demonstrated by their timetable, QR don't give a crap about connections on their network, much less the wider TL network.

[techblitz]

And the short workings (i.e. Coopers Plains i/b to Cannon Hill o/b and vice-versa) give an interchange time of 3 minutes

I'm yet to miss a connection when moving from hemmant to Salisbury 3/4pmish on those 3 minute windows....very reliable.
However your concern is definitely warranted for pwd`s needing to connect..
But as irritating as it is......you would assume that if QR/TL were to ever to cop a complaint about it they would just tell the pwd`s to catch the 18 minute windowed services.

There are other '3 minuters' out there as well......caboolture to gold coast @ central...3 mins.....:26 arrival :29 depart..
I find myself having to sprint at central station from platform 6 to 1 almost every time....its harder to make because there are more people to dodge when moving up/down the stairs and further to run.....& caboolture line trains have a slightly higher risk of arriving late into central.
Switching at eagle junction is a no-go...only 1 min window.

[achiruel]

And the short workings (i.e. Coopers Plains i/b to Cannon Hill o/b and vice-versa) give an interchange time of 3 minutes

I'm yet to miss a connection when moving from hemmant to Salisbury 3/4pmish on those 3 minute windows....very reliable.
However your concern is definitely warranted for pwd`s needing to connect..
But as irritating as it is......you would assume that if QR/TL were to ever to cop a complaint about it they would just tell the pwd`s to catch the 18 minute windowed services.

I'm not sure, but wouldn't such a response fall foul of DDA legislation/regulations?

Even if it doesn't, I don't think it's a fair way to treat PWD. I'm sure Geoff might have some input on this, if he's still around?

[achiruel]

And the short workings (i.e. Coopers Plains i/b to Cannon Hill o/b and vice-versa) give an interchange time of 3 minutes

I'm yet to miss a connection when moving from hemmant to Salisbury 3/4pmish on those 3 minute windows....very reliable.
However your concern is definitely warranted for pwd`s needing to connect..
But as irritating as it is......you would assume that if QR/TL were to ever to cop a complaint about it they would just tell the pwd`s to catch the 18 minute windowed services.

I'm not sure, but wouldn't such a response fall foul of DDA legislation/regulations?

Even if it doesn't, I don't think it's a fair way to treat PWD. I'm sure Geoff might have some input on this, if he's still around?

Edit: interesting is that journey planner doesn't even give them as an option.

[James]

I'm not sure, but wouldn't such a response fall foul of DDA legislation/regulations?

Even if it doesn't, I don't think it's a fair way to treat PWD. I'm sure Geoff might have some input on this, if he's still around?

Edit: interesting is that journey planner doesn't even give them as an option.

I don't think allowing small transfer windows is reason for a PWD complaint. The response would be to simply wait for the next service. If this was allowed, it would be a nightmare for timetabling - you'd have to actively avoid timetabling services at certain times.

I think there'd only be an issue if JP made a suggestion, then the passenger failed to make the connection despite both services running to schedule. I find JP to be pretty conservative though - I make connections almost every day that JP would consider 'impossible'.

[HappyTrainGuy]

All they need is to space the Cleveland and Beenleigh services better.

How would you do that without impacting the connections at Park Road, and the single track section between Manly and Cleveland?

The times were changed a while back as you had Cleveland trains arriving at the same time as Gold Coast trains were departing etc, they moved the times to make sure there were connections between the 3 lines.  I remember it being a common complaint at the community line groups for the Cleveland line in particular - at one point in timetable, you could wait up to an hour to transfer between Cleveland and Gold Coast lines at night at Park Road as you had both trains arriving at the same time (Cleveland train departing on Platform 1 at the same time a train from the GC arriving on Platform 3).

I'm happy to take a little look at it with a simple mock up using the current run times between the various stations, have to keep in mind though of the factors that the timetable has to take into account, such as reasonable connection times between Cleveland/Beenleigh/Gold Coast trains, the paths through the city, the turnback times at the various terminuses (Shorncliffe, Beenleigh, Varsity Lakes, Cleveland, Domestic Airport) - requires a minimum amount of time to turnback a train without the use of a turnback crew, the single track section between Manly and Cleveland, and Sandgate and Shorncliffe, and Eagle Junction and International Airport, and the 15min frequency between Northgate, Coopers Plains and Cannon Hill, and their turnback times once they terminate - while avoiding conflicts.

Correct me if I'm wrong but timetabling also takes into account minimal time delays to the road network. The best example of this is Carseldine and Sunshine with out of service trains crossing peak and express trains all within the same 30-45 second window.

Doomben trains are also a pain in the ass as the outbound services block the subs at Eagle Junction until the inbound city service pulls into the station.