Variations

[Arnz]

The system should not pander to this, 600m walk is TOTALLY acceptable.

Agree.  People can't expect PT to stop outside their House and their Job in the one seat (There's the car for that).  Some walking has to be involved, it would even do wonders for your health by exercising.

I would think at least a 1km walk is acceptable.

[somebody]

(some) students at QUT whinge a bit, but most deal with it.

But how many are put off using PT for their working lives?

But, I was talking about a different new facility, that would be within a 500m walk...

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=207512120523041600887.0004b64af8c519c24c39d

That's ok as far as it goes, but I can't see SEB services running to Kangaroo Point.

[Arnz]

(some) students at QUT whinge a bit, but most deal with it.

But how many are put off using PT for their working lives?

I would think many would know about the Free Loop Buses operated by BT's Garden City depot.

[STB]

The system should not pander to this, 600m walk is TOTALLY acceptable.

Agree.  People can't expect PT to stop outside their House and their Job in the one seat (There's the car for that).  Some walking has to be involved, it would even do wonders for your health by exercising.

I would think at least a 1km walk is acceptable.

You haven't spoken to the Redlands residents now have you? .  They refuse to walk from Elizabeth St stop 85 to the Government/QUT area, hence were extremely vocal of keeping William and George St stops.

People out here only see taxis, not buses, those are just oversized taxis, and IMO it's a culture among PT users that really has to end.

[dwb]

(some) students at QUT whinge a bit, but most deal with it.

But how many are put off using PT for their working lives?

Its not that that puts them off.

But, I was talking about a different new facility, that would be within a 500m walk...

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=207512120523041600887.0004b64af8c519c24c39d

That's ok as far as it goes, but I can't see SEB services running to Kangaroo Point.

[/quote]

Your lack of imagination is not my problem, nor should limit other users' (I mean other than me) solutions.

[somebody]

You're so funny.

[#Metro]

You haven't spoken to the Redlands residents now have you? Wink.  They refuse to walk from Elizabeth St stop 85 to the Government/QUT area, hence were extremely vocal of keeping William and George St stops.

People out here only see taxis, not buses, those are just oversized taxis, and IMO it's a culture among PT users that really has to end.

I don't blame Redlands residents. My bum was extremely sore after riding route 250 for over an hour!!

[dwb]

You're so funny.

Perhaps, however my intent was serious, we need to start thinking outside the box, and if this forum won't do it, then no one will.

[somebody]

You're so funny.

Perhaps, however my intent was serious, we need to start thinking outside the box, and if this forum won't do it, then no one will.

Just fix up the "loop" via Allen St.

I don't see the need for routing buses to deliberately fall short of where people are actually going.

[dwb]

Just fix up the "loop" via Allen St.

Yes....

I think they have longer terms plans with the ULDA site tho, so that will probably stop them spending any money on Allen St loop until then.

Btw, does anyone know if that building behind the Morrison Hotel is heritage protected or something??

[Gazza]

I don't see the need for routing buses to deliberately fall short of where people are actually going.

But where are people going? The CBD is approx 1km wide and 1.4km long. It could be anywhere!
Basic geometry says that not every coridoor can have a route going everywhere. If it serves QSBS it cant serve KGS or surface streets or city precincts etc.

Its not that that puts them off.

This.
The reason why PT use drops off is a combination of problems with network design and coverage and co-ordination (The very stuff we talk about on here), cost of use, and pro car policies.
When buses are beating the rail network for speed in some areas, you've got some issues.

If many of these BUZ routes weren't working because of not terminating in particular spot, then they wouldn't be bothering upgrading to high capacity buses, boosting frequency etc.

i personally think it would be best to have rockets co-located with buz, and have them express to about 1/3 out. I also think there should be another shuttle, same route to 1/3 out... so each buz corridor in fact has 3 variations, short, full, express (first stop last stop of short route)

Yeah makes a lot of sense. Not all coridoors will necessitate the short run though. Perhaps only ones that have a steep gradient of usage as they approach the inner suburbs, where it would be beneficial to shuttle them only as far as needed....And yeah, BUZ and its rockets should absolutley be co located as families. This means some BUZes would use Adelaide St exclusively, Some would use KGS, some use QSBS, some would do precincts.

[dwb]

i personally think it would be best to have rockets co-located with buz, and have them express to about 1/3 out. I also think there should be another shuttle, same route to 1/3 out... so each buz corridor in fact has 3 variations, short, full, express (first stop last stop of short route)

Yeah makes a lot of sense. Not all coridoors will necessitate the short run though. Perhaps only ones that have a steep gradient of usage as they approach the inner suburbs, where it would be beneficial to shuttle them only as far as needed....And yeah, BUZ and its rockets should absolutley be co located as families. This means some BUZes would use Adelaide St exclusively, Some would use KGS, some use QSBS, some would do precincts.

correct

[Paul B]

I remember when trawling through the archives, there seemed to be a 'system' whereby frequent buses would be "near" BUZ standard, and was wondering if the same applied to
rockets and variations? ie, i'd assume an hourly welfare service (346,353,310) not to have additional rockets.
The 231 is pushing it close given the crap 230 frequency.
When going through the city i saw a 352 rocket to mcdowall, which got me thinking...
how come the 359 has a rocket (357)? its as welfare as a line at the foodbank. I can't see the rationale there, giving an hourly bus an 'extra' rocket, unless its due to some kind of scheduling thing rather than for the good of the commuter.

[Paul B]

I guess that post came out all jumbled, my point was supposed to be:
Is there a system whereby rockets are assigned. ie, if peak hour is half hourly or better, then 1-2 rockets additional per hour.
or if its a BUZ and still super heavy patronage, then 6 rockets per hour etc.
Thus hourly services = no rockets etc

[Cazza]

Most BUZ services have a paired peak hour rocket. To be real, most routes in general have a rocket variation. The southern and western suburbs are probably the most notorious for this.

e.g. Routes 425 & P426, Routes 112/3 & 114 etc.

I feel like (in theory) the opposite of what you are saying should be true. For less frequent/patronage routes, it is probably better to have a rocket service than a BUZ having a paired rocket. However, if the "hourly" route struggles to gain patronage (due to many factors such as slow, indirect routes or better travel options available), it is best not to send half filled rockets from here, there and everywhere (welcome to Brisbane).

The BUZ is already at a high frequency and runs to an express stopping pattern (much the same as a rocket). The only difference is that the rocket may run express for a bit more of the journey or the CBD stops are different. You could cut out the majority of BUZ paired rockets and boost the frequency of the BUZ route and it wouldn't really affect anyone.

But really, rockets should only be used in the cases where there is an opportunity to run express (more-so than the normal route) and the route will still have a high patronage count. For example, the P142, P205, P443, P455, P569.

[#Metro]

Many rockets are a waste of time because to catch it, a person has to let the all stops bus go past and wait for the rocket. This means that time is spent. Next, many rocket buses gain speed by cutting stops. However, this is counterbalanced by being stuck in the same congestion.

Rockets make sense where a bus fills to capacity and there is no point stopping all stops. For example 8MP to city or Chermside.

Other rockets are just gimmicks, designed to win or preserve political support, such as the infamous UQ to Zillmere rocket. 🚀

[BrizCommuter]

Where rockets duplicate a BUZ route, the BUZ route should just have its frequency increased instead. Having two sets of city stop locations serving the same corridor (e.g. 345 and P343) is ludicrous.

[SurfRail]

I'd like us to get away from the stupid monikers like "rocket" to begin with. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Many rockets are a waste of time because to catch it, a person has to let the all stops bus go past and wait for the rocket. This means that time is spent. Next, many rocket buses gain speed by cutting stops. However, this is counterbalanced by being stuck in the same congestion.

Rockets make sense where a bus fills to capacity and there is no point stopping all stops. For example 8MP to city or Chermside.

Other rockets are just gimmicks, designed to win or preserve political support, such as the infamous UQ to Zillmere rocket. 🚀

Doesn't fly when it comes to Chermside routes. Should just be more buz services. As soon as they get to the city its buses rat running across the city in thick traffic. At times its faster to get a standard buz and walk to work from KGS. Hardly anyone gets on the northbound rockets because they just don't pick anyone up. You'll also find its a bit chaotic during peak hour as a lot of people use these same BUZ routes (ie 330/333/340/345) as a hop to Kelvin Grove leaving many people wanting to go Chermside bound waiting for the next service (both morning and afternoon peak in chermside direction). Meanwhile 111/222 buz services continue to terminate at Roma Street despite new turnaround facilities at RBWH.

In the case with P343 its virtually empty most times by the time it gets to Shand street. Case in point a whole peak hour bus was managed to be evacuated before a train hit it.

Meanwhile the 345's are still usually set down only. And dont get me started on the 343. The amount of times I have seen that bloody thing empty at the roundabout as it turns onto Maundrell Terrace is a bloody joke. Even saw one 343 turn the desto off going past Aspley State school, turned right onto Robinson Road and continue all the way down to Sandgate road and turned left heading towards the depot.