Ips-Cab Rail Line - New Timetable Due in 7 weeks ...... Consultation........?

[Mozz]

As the title suggests, new timetable is due in September and with reference to the Ipswich Caboolture line there have been hints that after some 5-10 years since any new services on this line, there might be some new services and tweaks to the current timetable.

Has anyone heard anymore, or know anything about the consultation period or mechanisms (given the March 2008 TimetableGate event centring around the Ferny Grove line) I would expect that community consultation would be a high priority.

[Derwan]

It would be nice if they published proposed changes before they happened.  It might've prevented the debacle with the Ferny Grove line in March.

I wonder if we'll get many/any improvements on the Shorncliffe Line.  I can only hope!

[Arnz]

Technically the Caboolture line got a extra peak service some 3-4 years ago in the timetable shuffle (which saw Airport off-peak services decreased to half-hourly) before the March 2008 changes. 

That's if you count the 4:01pm Nambour express which was the last 'new' service added on the Caboolture/Gympie North line 3-4 years ago.  That train was later upgraded to a 6-car unit a year later.

[brad C]

Arnz
The "short north" also gained 2 additional express services from the September 2007 T/T when early morning all stoppers from Nambour were replaced by 3 car EMU/IMU services from and followed by all stoppers from Caboolture.
As these short north services stop at Petrie, technically the only commuters to benefit aprt from those from north of C'ture,  were those from Caboolture and Petrie. Those intermediate station commuters still wait relief.
The PM is just as bad with gaps of over 20 minutes between 1642 and 1705 for Caboolture  services (2 x Petrie all stoppers in between)  and from circa 1800 until 1930 when peak hour mysteriously finishes for QR at 1750hrs even though services at 1806 and 1838 are standing room only to at least Zillmere.
Compare this frequency on this line to the plethora of services to Ferny Grove in the same period.
To coin a popular phrase ... It's Time!!
Sorry Derwan, I forgot to mention those frequent flyer services during peak on the Shorncliffe Line - pathetic!!

[Arnz]

To some extent, that Sept TT change had a late night Ipswich-Nambour all-stoppers truncated to Caboolture, with the last Nambour service of the evening being changed to a 3-car IMU (running the normal express pattern with the N'Gate and Petrie stops).

Being from the coast myself, I know a lot of commuters from the Sunshine Coast for the most part park in Landsborough or Nambour and catch the trains to/from work.

For the most part, when the North Coast Line upgrade is complete to improve reliability with freight and commuter traffic, commuters up that way may see improved services across both the Caboolture and North Coast Lines in off-peak (and Peak).   A 3-tier service wouldnt go astray either.  That being

*Petrie to Darra - all stops.
*Caboolture to Ipswich via City
15 minute off peak between Petrie and Darra.

*Nambour to City - hourly in offpeak, half-hourly in peak (Express Cab to BHills stopping Petrie and N'gate)

That way Caboolture commuters get a frequent off-peak service to the City in the same way as the Beenleigh/South Coast services.  Suburban Brisbane in the Ips-Cab corridor gets a more frequent off-peak service.

[brad C]

Arnz
Spot on with your analysis. Numbers on that late night Nambour are rather thin at the moment but nice to know that the service exists.
On that matter of off peak frequencies..........given the huge population now residing in Morayfield, Burpengary , Narangba and to an extent, Dakabin/Kallangur/NorthLakes, it would be difficult to substantiate a case against a 15 minute frequency between Caboolture and Petrie off peak.
My discussions with QR staff during the 'meet the managers' speakfest indicated that Caboolture is to be the chief station on the inner north suburban with a gradual downgrading of the importance of Petrie,
Timetablers in the past have saturated Petrie with services (do you recall the Expo 88 timetable for the Caboolture Line - 3 trains an hour to Petrie with only core hours of the day when Caboolture received any more than an hour service) and to some extent continues with the stopping pattern of short north expresses (you would be familiar with XL13 at 1806 with a Petrie stop that sees legitimate Sunshine Coast commuters standing to Petrie whilst the Petrie mob hog the seats.

There are future plans to extend the triplication northwards from Petrie to Caboolture. One hopes this will be completed prior to the nambour duplication.(about 2023)  Only then will it be possible to offer customers a true suburban and interurban service concurrently.

Incidentally did you notice funds for planning of the Kuraby-Kingston additional capacity in the 2008-09 budget?
To coin another popular phrase - It may not happen overnight but it will happen!!

Brad C

[stephenk]

Don't worry about the lack of consultation 

If it's anything like the last Ferny Grove timetable, it will be total chaos for the first few days, and then QR will rewrite the timetable a few days after introducing the new one!

[Mozz]

September is rapidly approaching - still nothing on the horizon from where I am in terms of consultation process.

[brad C]

Relax Mozz....
Remember the March timetable - it was instigated on the last day of the month.
September could be a carbon copy.

Do you remember the September 1993 timetable - Black Monday 23/09/93.
There were DRAFT sheets (about the size of a single bed douvet) around about a week or so prior to the change.
There was no E mail to speak of in those days and so comments were invited by mail,
I responded in some depth regarding the Caboolture line but to no avail.
We are still suffering from that timetable today.
In some ways the march 08 timetable mirrored the '93 changes in that amendment sheets were issued a couple of weeks later to most lines to correct some of the most obvious blunders.

Let's hope september 08 looks a little better.

I see some a couple of challenges to the Sept 08 timetable - the slow delivery and entry into service of additional rollingstock, the non completion of Brunswick Street Upgrade phase 2 and to some extent, Indooroopilly (as there is no quad operating to the west during peak) and perhaps the non completion of the Helensvale- Nerang duplication.

Until these factors are resolved, I see Sept 08 as interim to say the least.You might recall my revelations around the March 08 changes.
Nevertheless, there is no reason why a timetable cannot be developed with additional services to be progressively introduced commensurate with new rollingstock deliveries.

When the electrification was being rolled out and one could still purchase a full network timetable book (for about 80c) the timetable included proposed new electric services (to replace diesel and cars) with the actual date for commencement - very progressive for 1983!!

We wait with bated breath!!
Brad C
.

[Mozz]

The impacts of the March 2008 timetable update extended well beyond the adding of additional services and tweaking of timetables. Managers and other sent from the QR/Translink trenches onto the platforms en masse and often to "engage" disaffected commuters, negative media publicity across all forms of media to name but two.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I can't see the same launch mechanisms being used this time around as those responsible would be way too smart for that to occur.

BTW did anyone see those extra trains ordered 4 years ago, they must be due soon, it's almost 2009 now

[Mozz]

The other issue I suppose is the public transport community needs to stand up and be represented. Continual promises of significant timetabling benefits back in 2007 then in March 2008 then in September 2008 need to be significant, not just mere interim after interim, promise after promise of better things to come. Trains ordered 4 years ago should be here and delivered now, not in another 2 years time and the same with the human resources to staff them, infrastructure to support them etc etc etc.

[Derwan]

Remember the March timetable - it was instigated on the last day of the month.
September could be a carbon copy.

I tend to agree.  Looking at the calendar, expect the new timetable to commence on 29 September.  If it's like March, we'll see the details during the week beforehand.

With just a handful of 260 series trains delivered, I doubt changes will be significant.

[ozbob]

The many 'meet the manager sessions' generated a lot of input for the timetables.

I have also received advice that the ideas we have been putting forward are being considered as well.

I don't think there will be major changes September, but I am hopeful that additional early peak services (am and pm) Ipswich and Caboolture lines and some further improvements possibly on the Shorncliffe line.  Patterns on the Cleveland line might be re-visited as well.

We hope!

[Mozz]

Sorry Bob, but I have lost hope, no more hope for me. I have been travelling and hoping and sending information to QR and Translink for over 5 years now with respect to the Ipswich - City train issues with respect to timetabling and dangerous overcrowding with no change in that time.

Hold out for the March 2008 timetable and things will change. Nothing changed.

Hold out for the September 2008 timetable it will be significant. Now it appears it will be interim with a few minor changes.

I don't have hope I just want some results.

[stephenk]

I think if QR have not started a public consultation on the new timetabled as they said they would within a week or two, then maybe a press release may be a good idea?

I for one will be pretty annoyed if the morning 23 minute gap (Alderley to Windsor) and the evening 24 minute gap (Windsor to Gaythorne) remain in the new Ferny Grove Line timetable.

[ozbob]

I have contacted QR, please wait.

Cheers
Bob

[Derwan]

please wait.

*Holds breath*

[mufreight]

QR was contacted on 17th July but so far no response, to be somewhat cynical does this mean that they are as usual doing nothing about the timetable changes despite all their claims that there will be new timetables in September.
Perhaps the commitee planing the timetable changes ran out of coffee at their planing meetings and anyway do any of them actually travel by train during the peaks.
Maybe time to ask your local MP

[QRIG]

QR was contacted on 17th July but so far no response, to be somewhat cynical does this mean that they are as usual doing nothing about the timetable changes despite all their claims that there will be new timetables in September.
Perhaps the commitee planing the timetable changes ran out of coffee at their planing meetings and anyway do any of them actually travel by train during the peaks.
Maybe time to ask your local MP

No no, they were just discussing it over dinner at an exclusive restaurant.

[Mozz]

The days of September are drawing to a close - a week and a half at best. Still no news on the new timetable and the new services on the Ipswich line.

No new services in 7 + years!!!

Devasting hints of new services in the March 2007 then September 2007 then March 2008 and nothing at all.

Media reporting of the Minister commiting to new services in September 2008 timetable revision for the Ipswich line.

However this appears to have been contradicted by a TTA spokesperson who indicated in a media interview that March 2008 would be the only timetabling change for the year.

Anyone have any news, hints, tips, rumours or anything regarding this long running and quite sad saga of planning and infrastructure failure ......

[david]

I too have resigned to the fact that the Ipswich line will not get any improvements this year. However, if QR/Translink repeat what they did last time, there is still plenty of time for them to release a new timetable in September. We should remain cautiously optimistic for a September timetable revision (perhaps the Caboolture/Shorncliffe line this time?), however, with the Indooroopilly upgrade ongoing, the best QR would possibly do with the Ipswich Line is to shuffle trains around again like last time...

[ozbob]

We put on a media release on this on the 16th September (below), no real reaction.

Followed up with a letter to the Editor in the Queensland Times ( http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=86.msg6044#msg6044 )

There also seems to be a lack of local political support along the line (some exceptions), this is surprising as it is generally strong labor electorates ...

----------

Media Release 16 September 2008

SEQ:  Additional Citytrain services eagerly awaited for the Ipswich line

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said Ipswich railway line commuters are eagerly looking forward to the additional services promised for September.  We are more than half way through September but there have been no announcements of additional services.  We are still hopeful though.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

?The Quest Ipswich news reported on the 5th June 2008 that a spokeswoman for the Minister for Transport said Queensland Rail will introduce timetable changes in September that would focus on the heavily patronised Ipswich line (1).?

?Congestion on the Ipswich line continues to get worse and worse but there has been no action to address the problems.  For example, where are the incentive fares for the go card to encourage pre-peak, early peak and off peak travel and help ease peak congestion??

?The bus-centric transport policies pushed as short term expedient solutions are falling apart in Brisbane.  The CSIRO Report Fuel for thought (2) has highlighted the looming problems for buses, although bus commuters in Brisbane can describe the failures today clearly enough.?

?We still have time to ramp up our rail networks, light and heavy for a sustainable transport future. Rail will cope with the loads, buses are not trains!  Line mass transit is best provided by high capacity rail ? light and heavy, fed by local integrated buses.?

?Are we heading for a public transport meltdown??

References:

1.   Quest Ipswich News 5 June 2008 page 11

2.   http://www.csiro.au/resources/FuelForThoughtReport.html

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Forgot to mention I have a meeting with my local state member this coming week.  One of the issues I intend to discuss is the failure to add additional services to the Ipswich line timetable.

Cheers
Bob

[O_128]

New timetables in october

[mufreight]

WHAT CONSULTATION?  A collection of the Translink monkeys holding a consultation over the quality of supplied bananas or perhaps something relevant.
One can only hope, Ipswich line commuters were told that there woiuld be additional services with the March timetable changes, it did not happen. we were then told that there would be additional services provided in the September, this also has not happened despite assurances by both Minister Mickle and Premier Bligh, both of whom hold diplomas in obfuscation, the question is if there are timetable chages in october will they simply be some changes in times or will the overdue and long promised extra services actually be provided?
Ask your local member, all it takes is a phone call or a letter, enough pressure and it might actually happen.

[stephenk]

New timetables in october

Source of information?

[O_128]

wont give exact detatiks but my friends boyfriend works for QR. As a timetable person wouldnt ive anymore detatils though. ALos he has one of those timetable books wich has all of the timetables in a book next time i see him i will ask for one.

[ozbob]

all is revealed -->  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1359.0