Contract out Queensland Rail passenger services to an external provider

[#Metro]

This poll is now open for 7 days.
Results will be released after 7 day period. You may change your vote at any time during the poll open period.

Discussion on this poll may take place in the thread below!

[mufreight]

Queensland will be better served by the government retaining the operation of all passenger services, there are many changes that could be made to the way these services are operated but since long distance passenger services are mostly operated as CSO services which are always destined to make an operating loss.
Rethinks on the levels of service and how those services are provided need to be taken.
The removal of sleeping cars off the Westlander and the Inlander were bad moves that have had an effect on the tourism, the Westlander could be retimed and sped up which would reduce operating costs and make the service more attractive to tourists but instead the train was left with a slow timetable and the level of service reduced by the removal of sleeping cars and food service making the service deliberately unattractive to passengers with the obvious intent of justifying the removal of the service over time on the basis of lack of patronage.

[#Metro]

This is mainly about passenger services in SEQ. Melbourne has a split model, for example. Metro runs the city rail network, country services are operated by V/Line. Infrastructure gov't owned by VicTrack.

Perhaps one idea is that the maintenance is done by a separate division of the operator with a ring-fenced maintainence budget on a non-profit basis. Money allocated for maintenance must be used soley for that.

[Arnz]

I'm open to QR just being a track infrastructure & long distance passenger provider, with the SEQ commuter network & rollingstock perhaps contracted out.  Although have no clear decision on which way to lean towards at this time.

[Marshal]

It would depend on the contract terms, but I could see it working to a degree. I guess I'd like to see the politics removed from it all, but you can't really take the politics out of building the infrastructure. In terms of just providing service I could see it working out well, but in the same respects I think just putting translink properly in control rather then letting each council work their own busses would do wonders alone

Tl:dr open to the idea, but would depend on the terms

[#Metro]

It would depend on the contract terms, but I could see it working to a degree. I guess I'd like to see the politics removed from it all, but you can't really take the politics out of building the infrastructure.

The thing that I am at a loss to explain is how QR allegedly kept information about the projected driver shortfall from the minister.

I just don't understand that. Especially after being directly warned. Apparently 20 managers within QR knew something was wrong

with the timetable and nobody told the minister.


Fines

A key difference between gov't operation and private operation are the fines.

If a private operator is fined, the company is devalued and investors  / owners have to wear the loss.

If they keep performing badly, company is fired or their contract is not renewed. Another operator can take over.

Gov't can always be an operator of last resort.


In the current model, the government is essentially fining itself. It is an internal funds transfer that has no real end effect. Maybe the

CEO might have their bonus cut or lose their job. But that's about it. Larger fines just cut into services provided, rather than profits.


Contract - how to do it?

The key thing for me is that the operator is paid for route-km, and not on revenue collected. All revenue should go to TransLink.

This means it is contract-for-service, not a "franchise". By making the contract pay-for-km service, there is also an incentive for the

operator to push for more services in the long run.


Funding can be done in two separate blocks - a block for service (profit) and a ring-fenced separate block for maintenance (non-

profit, non-transferrable).


This means there is no benefit from skimping on maintenance, it is essentially the same incentives environment a public operation

would face.


Penalties for late running and cancellations

A third thing is this station skipping / cancellations. Instead of penalising on time or stations skipped, services could be defined as

"number of agreed stops."

So if a train were to make 10 stops, and it ran late to three of them, it would be penalised three units for being late at three stations.

If a train were to be cancelled completely, it would be penalised ten units. If a train ran express, skipping five stations to make up

time, it would be penalised five units.


Total penalties should be capped to prevent it being misused during industrial disorder.

[#Metro]

*** THIS POLL IS CLOSING SOON - HAVE YOU VOTED? ***

[Gazza]

I don't see the benefit in separating track maintenance and operations.

Its the one system .

Would just give rise to blame games and silos if they are separate entities.

[James]

Abstaining. I see merit in both sides. QR is a bloated organisation and the broom needs to go through senior management for the incompetence stemming from this issue. However, putting QR's passenger services out to CT may not be a silver bullet - particularly if we end up with a dud operator. The issues are institutional within the current (& former) governments.

Bus network reform will unlock rail service improvements by feeding passengers into the rail network, rather than having it as an overgrown welfare network. Network reform + track duplications will open up 15 minute rail frequencies.

The current problems with PT are like cancer which has spread to several parts of the body. Chopping off an arm will still leave problems elsewhere. A multi-pronged approach with all PT operators needs to occur. More PT funds for outer Brisbane. More rail feeders. More high frequency bus services, justifying high frequency rail services.

[#Metro]

Agree James. Melbourne had a dud operator and got rid of them. And the fines actually stuck.

They have a much better operator now, MTR.

People are rightly concerned about the maintenance aspect of things.

One organisation but two budgets - one that can only be used on maintenance (no profiting from it, no spending it on anything

else) will fix that IMHO.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Why do people keep bringing this crap up for??

Melbourne is by far hiding the mess from the public. MTCE and the operator abusing loopholes is just blatantly rampant down there. Station bypassing is one but there are several others that Metro are exploiting. Yes its better than the old operator but the old operator was also run by a private firm so it could be simple as replacing QR with another Connex or end up with the pain in the ass waste of money system that we see in Britain where everyone is fining everybody else over anything.

Keep QR as is. No need to split the thing up. Things turned to sh%t when the government split it up into 5 groups back in 2003 into QR Passenger (No profit), QR Services (Profit), QR Network (Profit) and QR Coal/Freight (profit) under the guise of never privitising the company and making it easier to manage - ha.

Stop it will all the operator crap. It's not the operator. It's translink that needs to get its ass into gear and run a proper public transport network.. Fix the bus network. Establish a proper bus network where there are lots of interchange abilities. People in Bracken Ridge going to the city should have no have express buses to the city when the entire peak hour capacity can be put onto 2 trains which even has a higher peak hour frequency compared to the buz peak hour standard. Invest more into the railways - trouts road, crr, the sunny coast line. Invest more in active transport. Make active transport links to and from interchanges. Sort out this bullsh%t with every street having its own private rocket to the city. Use the high capacity buses where they are needed and not on a 336/337/338 suburb tour with 15 people onboard in the middle of peak hour. Get more buses going to train stations and you warrant more trains running. I've been saying for ages off peak the Caboolture line doesn't deserve 4tph as the bus network only just manages to meet these services (30-60 min feeders - no bt feeders at stations in brisbane) and its only Petrie-City getting to loadings. Now that we have the RPRL its a step forward in having more people using it which can help enable 4tph.

The fining. Its a government smoke screen to make them look like they have done something. Its them showing the public that they have power. The majority of the public doesn't use PT or even knows the inner working so to them its seeing the government is doing something so maybe I should reelect them. In the past there have been several big projects canned by state government interjection.

Fix the real issues!

[#Metro]

Stop it will all the operator crap. It's not the operator. It's translink that needs to get its ass into gear and run a proper public transport network.. Fix the bus network. Establish a proper bus network where there are lots of interchange abilities. People in Bracken Ridge going to the city should have no have express buses to the city when the entire peak hour capacity can be put onto 2 trains which even has a higher peak hour frequency compared to the buz peak hour standard. Invest more into the railways - trouts road, crr, the sunny coast line. Invest more in active transport. Make active transport links to and from interchanges. Sort out this bullsh%t with every street having its own private rocket to the city. Use the high capacity buses where they are needed and not on a 336/337/338 suburb tour with 15 people onboard in the middle of peak hour. Get more buses going to train stations and you warrant more trains running. I've been saying for ages off peak the Caboolture line doesn't deserve 4tph as the bus network only just manages to meet these services (30-60 min feeders - no bt feeders at stations in brisbane) and its only Petrie-City getting to loadings. Now that we have the RPRL its a step forward in having more people using it which can help enable 4tph.

Nothing to do with the bus network. This is about QR as an organisation.

I note the bus network in Brisbane, the one with the constant problems, is also publicly operated by Brisbane City Council.

If the bus network was superb, but passengers were dropped off at QR stations only to find that QR had cancelled their trains (collect cash bonus), operated a random timetable or made them wait 1 hour, cancelled all weekend services etc, it still wouldn't be a good train service.

Nothing wrong with gov't involvement, but the shambles of the last few months really makes me think that gov't would be best in the investment, funding and planning section. Day to day operations can be handled by privates, just like the tram, the ferry and all the other buses are handled by the privates in SEQ.

The mismanagement of politicians trickles right down. Pass go and collect cash bonus??

[HappyTrainGuy]

Shambles? You mean how the State Government has used the railways as a political tool for their benefit?? The late 90's/early 00's was when they started to become a real public in your face political tool. Remember how good it was when rail projects had lots of federal funding. After that its just them using it as a tool. It was used as a political tool earlier but not on the same dramatic scale that they do now. Like how it set the business up for privitisation from 2003 when it split it into 5 divisions? After it was privitised it was then merged back into 1 division. Multiple projects over the years that QR were looking into were stopped because of the State Government. Some duties were then palmed off under TMR before the State Government came in again with the razor gang in 2011 to make it look more lean?? The razor gang wasn't just related to the drivers/guards. It was business wide. Newman wanted 500 full time jobs gone. It was only that the government changed hands again that it didn't go ahead but the damage had already been done. Just fix the issues internally from all the restructuring that has happened over the years and stop the government from using it as a political tool.

The issues with the Brisbane bus network is the council refusing to change because they want all the power. When was the last time you saw a logan bus in the Queen Street/King George busway? They can and do have the power to help run and provide a proper integrated pt network with buses and trains working together but they refuse to. It all stems from the train vs tram and later evolved into the train vs bus. Even now buses avoid train stations in peak hour and its no more evident than the buses going around with advertising how much they spend on buses. The same was repeated about how much they spent on buses but ignored the fact that the state government had some "minor" involvement in them.

Public transport should not be a political tool or political advantage. There are many places that have government railways that work well. We even have it here in Australia ie transperth.

[#Metro]

Just fix the issues internally from all the restructuring that has happened over the years and stop the government from using it as a political tool.

I agree that QR has been the most restructured organisation that I can think of. When something isn't working, try something else.

I would imagine that as a contractor, a private QR would control its own staffing decisions and thus be immune from public service cuts.

Queensland Rails "customer charter" is absolutely toothless. Can you believe that the mass cancellations over the last two months are not a violation of it? In theory, the Queensland Gov't could "fine" QR but that is also toothless - it would just fine itself!

The issues with the Brisbane bus network is the council refusing to change because they want all the power.

I agree. Brisbane Transport isn't separate from Brisbane City Council. It's the same legal identity as BCC.

Would a private operator refuse to meet with TransLink on six occasions? Could they have afforded to do that?

In my opinion, BCC has gotten away with all sorts of bad and unacceptable behaviour purely because they are a local government. A private operator on competitive contract could not afford to do this or the fines.

A private operator would also not care about driving the bus over council boundaries. Whatever they are paid for they are happy to do.

Public transport should not be a political tool or political advantage. There are many places that have government railways that work well. We even have it here in Australia ie transperth.

We do. But that is essentially what we have in QLD, so why isn't it working here??

It is not as simple as vote for the other party - the other party are just as bad, and this is a known constant over many years. They just can't run the system, bus or train.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The toothless customer charter isn't the contract in place with Translink. All feedback about the citytrain network gets forwarded to Translink. The traveltrain feedback gets handled internally within Queensland Rail. That's what they offer to those using the services. No different than taking your frustration out on the driver of the bus because it got stuck in traffic. Its why operators do not offer any compensation outside of the airport line contract. They are providing translink a service. Not you. Not me. But to translink. As shown by the difficulty in getting Translink to approve a Caboolture and Nambour to swap around because it had to filter through translink who took their time to approve the change. Most likely an foi request is the only thing that would set the record straight as to what each operator has agreed to. Given what we have seen from other private operators, the massive amount of BT cancellations and QR changes.... It looks like its all going to be very loosely based as PT has been used that much as a political tool.

[Stillwater]

Thanks for the insight HTG

[#Metro]

Poll results now available.

The motion is lost.

Thanks to all who participated! Enjoy your commute!!

[#Metro]

Oh look, just in! 

At the height of the controversies around Queensland Rail's mass cancellations and driver shortages, the board splashed out on generous bonuses for its executives.

It is understood the board signed off on the performance payments on September 29.

Performance payments for senior executives are based on the achievement of key performance indicators.

Queensland Rail paid bonuses as chaos consumed network
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-rail-paid-bonuses-as-chaos-consumed-network-20161118-gssqbm.html