City rail capacity

[mufreight]

Rail capacity through the CBD stations is close to reaching capacity as is the Merivale Street Bridge.

The answer is a rail tunnel from the Coast Line at Dutton Park and the Clevland line at Buranda to join the Exhibition Loop at Herston just before Bowen Bridge Road.

This line would have stations at Wooloongabba, Gardens Point, Centreal Railway, and Herston(Royal Brisbane Hospita/Exhibition).

This would effectively provide additional capacity either directly or indirectly for all lines and an alternative means of transport for commuters rather than bus to the Hospital Gardens Point (Parliament House) and the Gabba.

Think about it then tell your local Member or the Minister or even Mr can do, maybe we can plant an idea.

[stephenk]

Isn't the above route already being looked at by the powers that be?

A big question is what to do at the ends of the tunnels regarding:-
1) Interchange
2) Operation

1) Interchange stations would likely be needed so that people can swap between new and existing routes before they split, and is dependent on what options are selected for 2). Either a new station would be required a few hundred metres to the north of Bowen Hills, or new platforms would have to be built on the Exhibition Line separated by a fair walk from the existing station. Whichever option is chosen, I hope that the forthcoming redevelopment of the Bowen Hills area does not limit any options. What to with interchange around Park Rd area could be rather complex depending on whether the new tunnel linked up with the Beenleigh/Gold Coast Line, Cleveland Line, or both.

2) Which lines would run through the new tunnel, and which would use the existing routes? You could alternate trains from lines taking the existing and new routes. This increases the options to passengers without them having to change, but makes operations more complicated (i.e. unreliable, just look at London Underground's sub surface lines), and reduces the train frequencies for each route. Or, you could send just the trains from one line down the new tunnel. This would require good interchange stations at either end, and would be simpler to operate (i.e.more reliable, just look at Paris and Moscow metro systems)

I personally would run the Ferny Grove - Beenleigh Line through the new tunnel (OK, I might be a bit biased here as I live in Enoggera and work in Herston). This would allow options for Beenleigh/Gold Coast commuters - want South Bank/Roma Street take the ex Gold Coast train, want Gardens Point or Exhibition take the ex Beenleigh train, want Central then take either. Maybe an interchange station could be built where the new tunnel crosses under the Cleveland Line (outside Park Rd). I've chosen the Ferny Grove Line at the other end as it already good friends with the Beenleigh Line, self contained (i.e relatively simple to operate), and would benefit from a metro like service (it is the 2nd busiest Citytrain Line). The pressure taken off the existing route would allow frequencies on other lines to be significantly increased too.

The Caboolture Line would require less new infrastructure around Bowen Hills (as the FG line would require more of a flyover), but then there would have to be a major reorganisation of line operation required (as the Caboolture Line would no longer link with the Ipswich Line).

Of course the new tunnel would require many extra trains (won't the original electric suburban units require replacement within 10 years?), and other capacity enhancements such as level crossings replaced by bridges.

I'd be interested to hear other peoples ideas for interchange stations and operation of the proposed tunnel.

[mufreight]

Response to Stephenk

You have raised valid points, the proposal for such a line has been around for a number of years, in fact my first recollections of the proposal date back to the time of the first proposals for the additional tracks between Roma Street and Brunswick Street.

The proposal for the new line caters for interchange at the logical point for such an interchange, Central.  The new line would be below the level of the existing lines at that point.

Which lines would it be logical to route through the new line.
Airport trains from Robina
Alternate Clevland line trains routed to Shorncliffe
Alternate Beenleigh trains routed to Petrie
An hourly service from Ipswich and return to Cabolture routed via Corinda - Tennyson - Yeeroongpilly - Dutton Park -Central - RBH - Mayne 

These proposed routings would allow the maximum operating flexibility and access to RBH and the Gabba and with the exception of the FG line all lines would have access to the new line, modifications could be made to the flyover at Mayne to accomodate the FG line if warranted.

The proposed routings could put a train in each direction over the new line in off peak at a maximum heading of every 20 minutes working from existing timetabling as a guide. Peak services to all lines could be readily increased by the additional capacity.

Additional services could be run over shortened routes by using turnbacks at Darra,Kingston,Northgate,Zilmere and Mitchelton.  Most of these turnbacks presently exist.

With the additional train path capacity it would be possible to operate trains outside the present more traditional concepts and operate interconnecting services between lines.

Central via Sherwood - Moorooka to Beenleigh
Cleveland via Buranda - Yeerongpilly to Ipswich

The key is more track capacity.

This fact that was acknowledged by Premier Bligh when on 5th December 2007 in the South East Advertiser she expressed support for a Wooloongabba rail link which she said should be ultimately intergrated into a full subway system.

Previously in thast same paper the then Deputy Mayor Mr David Hinchcliffe mooted an underground station for the Gabba.  He had been supported by the then Transport Minister Mr P Lucas when he enveiled the Inner City Rail Capacity Study in August 2007. 

Mr Lucas at that time proposed a 6km long line from Park Road at Buranda via the Gabba, Gardens Point the CBD to connect with the Exhibition line, his successor Mr Mickle in an exhibition of the level of his commitment to regional public transport and particularly rail, has downplayed the possibility. 

It would appear that Mr Mickle has a bad case of tunnel vision which it would seem is focused entirely on road tunnels, as long as the projects are paid for by either the federal Government or private funding and operated as toll roads for which the taxpayer then pays an inflated price over the next 30 or so years for infrastructure that the people of this state are entitled to expect that the Government provides and pays for.

[stephenk]

Which lines would it be logical to route through the new line.
Airport trains from Robina
Alternate Clevland line trains routed to Shorncliffe
Alternate Beenleigh trains routed to Petrie
An hourly service from Ipswich and return to Cabolture routed via Corinda - Tennyson - Yeeroongpilly - Dutton Park -Central - RBH - Mayne 

Sounds a bit more complicated to operate than my suggestion. Simplicity is the key to operational reliability!

[banyoboy]

Additional track capacity is a key to improving many services.  The track between Central and Bowen Hills is probably already at full capacity.  The track capacity between Bowen Hills and Eagle Junction will probably be a major stumbling block to getting high frequency air train services.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone at QR already has plans to solve a lot of these problems, provided someone can provide the funds.

[stephenk]

The track between Central and Bowen Hills is probably already at full capacity. 

I think it the tracks could take a few more trains with some better timetabling. There are still quite a few 6-7 minute service gaps even in the inner city section where an extra train could be slotted in.

The track capacity between Bowen Hills and Eagle Junction will probably be a major stumbling block to getting high frequency air train services.

The Airtrain is already over-serviced with 4tph of relatively empty trains during the peaks.

[SteelPan]

I don't understand those people going around saying "above ground" options are being looked at - you cannot put more ABOVE ground trains through inner Brisbane - why can we not just get on and build an underground rail system in this city like a 101 other cities around the world - incl among others the capital of bankrupt North Korea!!!

Only Q'land will come up with some crazzy idea - the cheap as chips option - that will never really do the job!  You just watch and see...

[mufreight]

The seeming overservicing of the airport line during peaks is simply an expedient means of getting trains through the system so that they can be turned back for other services, the other choice is that they get turned back at Bowen Hills / Mayne but by runnung them through to the airport they create some revenue for both Airtrain and QR.

Often operational constraints have to be considered and these things are not quite what they appear to be.

Now if it was possible to get the maximum gap on all lines down to a 15 minute headway, that would be progress.

Cheers.

[Markus]

Good thinking guyz.
Loving your enthusiasm, initiative and methodology.
Better declare that Im originally from SYD (yes Im a refugee from political nonsense, greed and looking good) Been in Brizzie for a few years and am a student of urban planning.

*** From now till the report if published (later in 2008), is when we have the best opportunity
to make the biggest difference to our cause. ***

Please bear with me & feel free to take a few breaths.   lol 
Apparently the cost / benefit ratios rise greatly as new areas are opend up to rail. Hence the study currently analysing the Eagle St/ Spring Hill areas. Woolloongabba is already in the picture.
One of the major issues, other than cost, seems to be which line to alter the course of and how to connect at the Northern end.

I believe the following points should be considered:
- which decision will benefit the most commuters,
- pedestrian access to new City stations should be of primary concern. An extra 10 steps taken to get onto a concourse can be a killer to "patronization", esp. for an ageing population.
- pros and cons of linking at the Northern end. i.e. Do we rail travellers want a few very busy stations whereby ALL rail ceases if/when there is an incident (like at Redfern or Town Hall in SYD) or prefer interchanges spaced out so that most BNE lines can be truly independent. This would greatly assist with reliability. This issue includes the potential for "cross platform" interchanges.

For the record, my wish list includes using the Beenleigh line and the Ferny Grove line used for the additional City tracks under the CBD, as BNE would benefit from having a relatively short line cut through it. Assists reliability.
Over the last few yrs I notice the current CBD area is quite small. Also, considering the steep pavements around Spring Hill - the area doesn't yet have rail access. Eventually the CBD will need to break out  of its boundaries somewhere !!! and I feel it'd be best to break out nearby rather than have "many CBD's" (satellite cities) spread out over a 40 km radius. I believe (1) CBD is essential for BNE to have an increased profile and future amenity/infrastructure funding.
I'm looking 50+ yrs down the track. Scuse the pun.

I'd also like to see a station near Cathedral Square - with linked underground access to Brunswick St.  Station. Somewhere or other there has to be a seamless/ easy to use interchange to assist with ease of use/ convenience. If everything about the plan isn't convenient in this day and age, no-one will use it.
Sorry to be black and white, but I feel each decision made in rail today will either help our cause or be detrimental to it. i.e. The decision-makers need to get it right for all our sakes.

Once again, I believe the bottom line will be the cost / benefit ratio. Planners, like me, can put lines on a piece of paper, but UNFORTUNATELY it's the politicians who will have the final say.

So guyz, pull this apart if you want. All i want is for all your energy and effort to be noticed and guide our pollies that don't use rail, except those "Loborites" that went trainspotting last week.   

[ozbob]

Welcome Markus, thanks for your comments!  Much to digest there.

I think many commentators and observers are starting to realise that rail will be the real sustainable mass transit solution.  It is indeed exciting times, the deficiencies of past planning are only too clear to see.

Viva the rail revolution!

Cheers
Ozbob