MBRL Consultation

[Fares_Fair]

Anyone know what the fare zones will be for Kippa-Ring to Petrie?
(I know fares are under review) and unconfirmed reports say they're expected to rise 3.5% at year end.

[Arnz]

Anyone know what the fare zones will be for Kippa-Ring to Petrie?
(I know fares are under review) and unconfirmed reports say they're expected to rise 2.5% at year end.

Pretty sure Ms. Trad had a budget paper (in the Estimates during mid-year) stating that the fares will be rising 2.5% or thereabouts. Saying that, it was stated by both her and former Transport Minister Scott Emerson that fares would've rised only 1.5% in line with CPI.

[Gazza]

It seems like the whole line will be in zone 6. The main people who get a rough deal is deception bay residents catching feeders to Kallangur,who sit in zone 7.

[ozbob]

A CPI increase (arbitrarily 2.5%) was mentioned in the budget.  What ever the CPI is, will be the increase.

If the CPI is 1.5% then that will be the projected increase.  However, with the fare review in progress it is not clear yet if there will be that increase.

[Fares_Fair]

It seems like the whole line will be in zone 6. The main people who get a rough deal is deception bay residents catching feeders to Kallangur,who sit in zone 7.

Hi Gazza, correct.
Translink have confirmed entire the line will be zone 6.

[red dragin]

Two TransLink consultation people and a QR staff member at Dakabin this morning. Looked to be the same stuff as online so I didn't grab anything.

[Simon]

Just a note on the Cleveland line, but I know that QR likes to keep a spare slot available from Manly to Cleveland for train driver tuitions and other special departmental trains etc during off peak times.  Basically the best you'll get is a 30min frequency from Manly to Cleveland and a 15min frequency from Manly to the City.

My suggestion is to have 30min Cleveland-City services running express full time from Manly to Morningside, with Manly trains running every 15mins stopping at all stations during off peak times.

You could potentially pair up Cleveland with Doomben and Manly with Shorncliffe.

Or QR could do what other railways do and atop sacrificing the needs of its passengers for unimportant operational concerns that those other railways again can magically solve through other means.

The very notion that route tuition can be allowed to interfere with a public facing timetable is another embarrassment in a very long litany.

So, where would you stick those trains, the maximum you can get through there is 4tph with the single track and that track will not be duplicated anytime soon, well after CRR gets built (assuming that gets built).  Gottta have some sort of on the road training available (also used for other purposes beyond that).

Also, train driver training for example isn't 'unimportant'.  Sheesh! 

I think you just need to accept that you won't see 15min Cleveland-Shorncliffe all day services 7 days a week while the track is single track.  Heck I live along that section of track for the past 20 years, I know what it's like!

I think that tuition trains may be a reasonable enough objection to 4tph between Manly and Cleveland, but it is not between Cannon Hill and Manly and I do not accept it for the Shorncliffe line either. Shorncliffe has the extension/siding (or whatever the correct term is) beyond the station and the tuition trains could use this. Worst case would be needing to delay the following outbound train to Sandgate and Shorncliffe and utilise a crew swap at the Shorncliffe crew depot. Hardly difficult.

So how do high frequency subway lines overseas train their staff?

Or Perth, Sydney or Melbourne for that matter.

I think Perth has hardly any single track, but I can't speak for Melbourne.

wrt Sydney, there isn't much single track, but the single track parts of the Richmond line do run at 2tph even in peak when 4tph would be theoretically achievable. I think they should duplicate the few km of single track between Riverstone and Schofields and extend 4tph to Mulgrave, but that's getting OT.

I expect for the single track Carlingford line, the crew training would utilise the second platform at Rosehill. Otherwise, besides the Coalcliff tunnel you have to go a very long way, >>100km, from the CBD to find single track.

If operational convenience is trumping service quality then it is time to put a broom through the whole outfit.

Although in this case, I don't see any compelling case for 4TPH beyond Manly.

Hear here.

[kaykayt]

Should Translink make Ipswich trains run express stopping at Milton, Indro and Darra only (Corinda in future for link to CRR... if that ever happens...), and increase Springfield frequency to 15 mins? This improves travel times for Ipswich commuters and increases frequency for Kippa Ring lines from 30min to 15min in off-peak times...

[SurfRail]

Yes, given enough trains and track capacity (except for Corinda which no longer serves any significant purpose).

[kaykayt]

It should though, because 104 links the Main line to Beenleigh and Gold Coast line. Right now it is not necessary, but when cross river rail is completed, it will be a main connection between Corinda and Yeerongpilly.

[SurfRail]

It should though, because 104 links the Main line to Beenleigh and Gold Coast line. Right now it is not necessary, but when cross river rail is completed, it will be a main connection between Corinda and Yeerongpilly.

Most people catching Gold Coast trains have no need to get to the outer Ipswich line, and vice versa.

I and most of the other Gold Coast schlubs wouldn't appreciate having our already slow service inbound of Beenleigh delayed further for a tiny proportion of commuters who can change trains at Altandi (or Roma St for that matter) or connect to the bus at Park Road.

[kaykayt]

It should though, because 104 links the Main line to Beenleigh and Gold Coast line. Right now it is not necessary, but when cross river rail is completed, it will be a main connection between Corinda and Yeerongpilly.

Most people catching Gold Coast trains have no need to get to the outer Ipswich line, and vice versa.

I and most of the other Gold Coast schlubs wouldn't appreciate having our already slow service inbound of Beenleigh delayed further for a tiny proportion of commuters who can change trains at Altandi (or Roma St for that matter) or connect to the bus at Park Road.

Eventually you would have to stop at Yeerongpilly after the CRR is built... If ever does happen. What would happen after that??.

[SurfRail]

^ That depends entirely on whether CRR is built, what form it takes, and the ultimate stopping patterns for the line south of Dutton Park.  This is all a mystery at present.

Based on the original plans, a stop at Yeerongpilly is no big deal because of a 10 minute time-saving and the fact it was to be a major interchange with the local rail services.  That is all up in the air now.

[ozbob]

Consultation is now closed.

The proposed Moreton Bay Region network

>> http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/62061/details

Consultation

Nine community consultation sessions were held and the online survey was open from Monday 2 November until Sunday 13 December 2015.

The opportunity to have your say on the proposed Moreton Bay region network has closed.

We thank you for your participation and all feedback will be considered.

The outcomes of the consultation will be released in early 2016.

[ozbob]

Moreton Bay Rail Link consultation outcomes

>> http://translink.com.au/about-translink/projects-and-initiatives/moreton-bay-rail-link

The once-in-a-generation project, the Moreton Bay Rail Link (MBRL), will open in mid-2016.

The project will transform the region, delivering:

    14km dual-track passenger rail line from Lawton to Kippa-Ring
    six new stations at Kallangur, Murrumba Downs, Mango Hill, Mango Hill East, Rothwell and Kippa-Ring
    an upgrade to Petrie station
    more than 650 new weekly train services

    trains every six to 12 minutes in peak times
    express services all day
    a consistent 55 minute journey between Kippa-Ring and Brisbane Central stations.

To provide an integrated network for the region, some changes were proposed for the local bus network.

From Monday 2 November until Sunday 13 December 2015, nine community consultation sessions were held and an online survey was open for you to have your say on the proposed bus network and draft train timetable.

We have now taken all your feedback into consideration and finalised your network.

Download the full Moreton Bay Rail Link community consultation report (PDF, 4.4MB)

[achiruel]

Download the full Moreton Bay Rail Link community consultation report (PDF, 4.4MB)

p12

"While some passengers may now be required to change between buses and trains to travel to their destination (a two-seat journey), this change makes the most efficient use of the integrated public transport network."

Can someone please let BCC know?

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

20th January 2015

Moreton Bay Rail Link consultation outcomes

Good Morning!

Moreton Bay Rail Link consultation outcomes are now available on the TransLink website.

> http://translink.com.au/about-translink/projects-and-initiatives/moreton-bay-rail-link

We would like to thank TransLink and Queensland Rail for the comprehensive community consultation.

This is a very significant public transport network improvement.

It is heartening that community feedback was listened to, and increases in weekend bus services and increased hours of the span of services,  together with route improvements will be implemented.

SEQ must move on from the park and ride fixation.  Servicing line public transport with proper feeder bus services is the way forward. We cannot and should not, turn suburbs into car parks.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[SurfRail]

I am very pleased we got the Sunday services in the bag.

It appears the only 2 routes without any Sunday runs are the 686 (Petrie - Frenchs Forest local route which is Mon-Sat) and the 691 (replacement for the 315 which like now is only on weekdays but with much better levels of service).

I am still counting this as a big win given our past experiences.

Future improvements to keep pushing in my view:
- Sunday services on the 686 and 691
- Minimum of 14-15 hourly services per day 7 days a week and more frequent weekday peak services
- Push for later services on the 680 and 687
- Push for 30 minute headways 7 days a week on the busier and key routes (like, again, the 680 and 687).

[ozbob]

I will head out there on the first real weekend of normal services.  Should be fun exploring on the different routes etc.

[verbatim9]

I will head out there on the first real weekend of normal services.  Should be fun exploring on the different routes etc.

We can organise a cycle day. Take our bikes on the train to Petrie on the express. Then change to MBRL cycle way. Cycle to Northlakes shopping centre (Coffee) then cycle to nearest train station take train to Kipparing then cycle down to Redcliffe and Lagoon. Then back up to Kipparing. Then people who want to Catch the train can and others can cycle back to express services @ Petrie.

[Gazza]

Just a note on the Cleveland line, but I know that QR likes to keep a spare slot available from Manly to Cleveland for train driver tuitions and other special departmental trains etc during off peak times.  Basically the best you'll get is a 30min frequency from Manly to Cleveland and a 15min frequency from Manly to the City.

My suggestion is to have 30min Cleveland-City services running express full time from Manly to Morningside, with Manly trains running every 15mins stopping at all stations during off peak times.

You could potentially pair up Cleveland with Doomben and Manly with Shorncliffe.

Or QR could do what other railways do and atop sacrificing the needs of its passengers for unimportant operational concerns that those other railways again can magically solve through other means.

The very notion that route tuition can be allowed to interfere with a public facing timetable is another embarrassment in a very long litany.

So, where would you stick those trains, the maximum you can get through there is 4tph with the single track and that track will not be duplicated anytime soon, well after CRR gets built (assuming that gets built).  Gottta have some sort of on the road training available (also used for other purposes beyond that).

Also, train driver training for example isn't 'unimportant'.  Sheesh! 

I think you just need to accept that you won't see 15min Cleveland-Shorncliffe all day services 7 days a week while the track is single track.  Heck I live along that section of track for the past 20 years, I know what it's like!

I think that tuition trains may be a reasonable enough objection to 4tph between Manly and Cleveland, but it is not between Cannon Hill and Manly and I do not accept it for the Shorncliffe line either. Shorncliffe has the extension/siding (or whatever the correct term is) beyond the station and the tuition trains could use this. Worst case would be needing to delay the following outbound train to Sandgate and Shorncliffe and utilise a crew swap at the Shorncliffe crew depot. Hardly difficult.

So how do high frequency subway lines overseas train their staff?

Or Perth, Sydney or Melbourne for that matter.

I think Perth has hardly any single track, but I can't speak for Melbourne.

wrt Sydney, there isn't much single track, but the single track parts of the Richmond line do run at 2tph even in peak when 4tph would be theoretically achievable. I think they should duplicate the few km of single track between Riverstone and Schofields and extend 4tph to Mulgrave, but that's getting OT.

I expect for the single track Carlingford line, the crew training would utilise the second platform at Rosehill. Otherwise, besides the Coalcliff tunnel you have to go a very long way, >>100km, from the CBD to find single track.

If operational convenience is trumping service quality then it is time to put a broom through the whole outfit.

Although in this case, I don't see any compelling case for 4TPH beyond Manly.

Hear here.

I was thinking about this over the weekend, but why don't they do driver tuition on weekend mornings, say from 4:30am. The sun is up then, and certainly no need for 4tph then.

[ozbob]

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2016/1/20/newlook-timetable-to-drive-better-bus-services-for-moreton-bay-community

Media Statements
Minister for Transport and the Commonwealth Games
The Honourable Stirling Hinchliffe
Wednesday, January 20, 2016

New-look timetable to drive better bus services for Moreton Bay community

The Palaszczuk Government today unveiled a new bus network and timetable that will deliver more buses and higher frequency services when the Moreton Bay Rail Link (MBRL) is opened mid-year.

Minister for Transport Stirling Hinchliffe said an extensive six-week community consultation was instrumental in shaping the plan for final network.

"More than 3,300 pieces of feedback were considered to design the new bus network and deliver the best outcome for the region," Mr Hinchliffe said.

"The changes to the local bus network will support the new MBRL train timetable and achieve a better integrated public transport network for the Moreton Bay region, delivering more high frequency buses and improving transport connections across the community.

"The new timetable provides connections to the new train stations, services new and growing areas and will ensure the network is easier and more intuitive to use.

"I would like to acknowledge the hard work of Queensland Rail and our bus operators Hornibrook, Bus Lines Kangaroo Bus Lines and Thompsons Bus Services who have worked hard to assist in providing new public transport options for the people of the Moreton Bay region."

Mr Hinchliffe said the new timetable would improve the way locals use public transport in the region. The new bus network features include:

    Upgraded bus network with an additional 261 services a week and a range of new options, including additional early morning and night-time services and an increased span of operating hours on six additional routes every weekday.
    More buses on the weekends – with increased operating hours on eight routes throughout the region.
    Better access to weekend buses – with 98 per cent of residents within a 400 metre walk of a Sunday service.
    More daily bus trips – with an extra 157 trips each weekday and an additional 104 trips every weekend.
    Higher frequency services during peak hour – 31 per cent of residents will be within a 400m walking distance of a high frequency service in morning peak. This is nearly four times the number of residents who have close access to these types of services now.

Mr Hinchliffe said the MBRL project will transform the region, delivering a 14 kilometre dual-track passenger rail line from Lawnton to Kippa-Ring and six new stations.

"When the line opens the region will see an extra 650 weekly express train services, trains every six to 12 minutes in morning and afternoon peaks and trains every 30 minutes in off peak and during weekends," Mr Hinchliffe said.

The Moreton Bay Rail Link Community Consultation report is available now on the TransLink website (external site). The report includes community feedback and details of all route changes.

[Old Northern Road]

"The changes to the local bus network will support the new MBRL train timetable and achieve a better integrated public transport network for the Moreton Bay region, delivering more high frequency buses and improving transport connections across the community.

Does this Stirling Hinchliffe imbecile think that hourly buses are high frequency? Politicians really do have some goddamn nerve. The Thompson buses still only run every 40mins during the morning peak!

Whatever. We all know that everyone is going to be driving to these stations and people will be complaining about a lack of parking within a few weeks. I guarantee it.

[ozbob]

Yes, there is an issue with bus frequency ( and often train as well of course) all over SEQ.  However, the present administration, former Transport Minister Trad and the present Transport Minister Hinchliffe have actually delivered a lot better network than was originally planned.  The first internal network plan was considered not to be satisfactory and Government directed that it be reworked.  Following consultation further improvements were made, and overall this is now a lot better than what could have been.  Yes, some routes need more frequency and in time that might be achieved.

Your comments re parking are spot on I reckon.  SEQ is addicted to park n' ride, slowly though we are making gains with better feeders.  No doubt there will be hysterical headlines  with a suitably aggrieved  ' commuter ' " I drove to the park n' ride and 7am and I couldn't find a park! "  after the line opens.  Hopefully people will use the buses and this in turn helps more service improvements. 

Springfield is an excellent example of the previous Government's policy settings delivering a mediocre feeder network.  It is still languishing.  Hopefully fixing up all bus regions poor networks will be a higher priority from here. 

[techblitz]

with all the anti-bus residential development happening around bracken ridge/carseldine/bridgeman etc....park and rides will only improve in popularity......

[ozbob]

with all the anti-bus residential development happening around bracken ridge/carseldine/bridgeman etc....park and rides will only improve in popularity......

Doesn't make it right hey? Really is time that councils and the state got their collective development acts together.  The are enabling suburban slums of the worst sort IMHO ...

[techblitz]

and the more cars trying to access park and rides also means more inefficiency for the bus routes on arterial roads