Yarrabilba Line

[Gazza]

https://www.google.com.au/maps/d/edit?mid=1v1MhbSI-zVcvuoxFqFPi8XpVjMRHqPQr&usp=sharing


Something I was pondering tonight, a way to provide rail to Yarrabilba, which is currently a long way between lines, and could support much higher population growth if it were provided with heavy rail.

General concept:

-Branches from the proposed Beaudesert line at Johnston Rd, Forestdale, and runs east to Browns Plains Grand Plaza via Skyrail.
-Station at Browns Plains, then continues along Browns Plains Rd via Skyrail (Or tunnel past the houses) as far as Logan Metro Sports
-Park and Ride at Heritage Park
-Run south along Park Ridge Connector Corridor
-Station at Park Ridge on Park Ridge Rd
-Continue South to Yarrabilba, turning east to follow Energex corridor to town center.

[Cazza]

Still have private sharing settings on

[timh]

https://www.google.com.au/maps/d/edit?mid=1v1MhbSI-zVcvuoxFqFPi8XpVjMRHqPQr&usp=sharing

Something I was pondering tonight, a way to provide rail to Yarrabilba, which is currently a long way between lines, and could support much higher population growth if it were provided with heavy rail.

General concept:

-Branches from the proposed Beaudesert line at Johnston Rd, Forestdale, and runs east to Browns Plains Grand Plaza via Skyrail.
-Station at Browns Plains, then continues along Browns Plains Rd via Skyrail (Or tunnel past the houses) as far as Logan Metro Sports
-Park and Ride at Heritage Park
-Run south along Park Ridge Connector Corridor
-Station at Park Ridge on Park Ridge Rd
-Continue South to Yarrabilba, turning east to follow Energex corridor to town center.

Not a bad route. I've thought about heavy rail to Yarrabilba a lot, as you're right it desperately needs it to be a more sustainable community and not just the epitome of urban sprawl.
All the routes I've always had in my head have utilised part of the Bethania-Beaudesert alignment (coz it's still there and already state govt. owned), but I realise the northern end where the line joins at Bethania is horribly slow and Bethania doesn't make for a great starting point.

If the line was to go via the Salisbury-Beaudesert line realistically I don't think it would go via Browns Plains. Despite the fact Grand Plaza could really use a dedicated mass transit corridor to the city, I think it would be more likely to get a busway. The easiest way from the Salisbury-Beaudesert line would literally be to follow the Energex corridor in a dead straight line from Greenbank (jut south of Pub Lane) across to Yarrabilba directly.

I've since been wondering how you would have the line start at Beenleigh, as per SEQCOM's idea: https://seqmayors.qld.gov.au/news/creating-a-one-connected-network-20200909

I've drawn up something rough as another idea. It does include a big tunnel through the hills at Wolffdene though :/
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1dQXnlxq0EF8TDAtgU6Y9v3tuep7VneuL&usp=sharing

Not the best alignment IMO (coming from the Salisbury/Beaudesert line is probably better) but this is just trying to work out how to do it the SEQCOM way...

[BrizCommuter]

Decent public transport to Yarrabilba is beyond hope. Not cost effective as it is so far away from existing infrastructure. It'll be a ghetto within a few years, though it may already be one.

[#Metro]

I don't understand.

We have enough problems on the existing network without adding yet more lines.

How about duplicating Shorncliffe, Sunshine Coast, Cleveland, Beenleigh, lines etc.

As for development, there you could extend the FG line out to Stamford or allow development along the  Rosewood line where there already is rail.

[James]

A couple of points on rail to Yarrabilba:
- Any trains heading out this way will take train paths away from Flagstone trains. Given this line will only have 8tph allocated to it south of Dutton Park (12tph at a stretch), a line out to Yarrabilba will limit this to 4-6tph.
- This seems like a lot of expenditure for minimal benefit, when compared to other projects - 25km of railway, with only one station after the 10km mark (Yarrabilba - terminus). CAMCOS (to Caloundra via Aura) would be a similar size project, and would benefit the entire Sunshine Coast.
- A railway is a very high-expenditure item for an area which currently has hourly bus services on weekdays, 2-hourly on Saturday and nothing on Sunday. Boost the bus service (and existing rail!) before we start looking at a new line

Sure, reserve a corridor, but I don't think we'll be building anything on it for many many years, it might not even be rail - a busway to Browns Plains station might be enough. At this distance from the CBD, you probably aren't going to be a family with both adults working in the CBD and kids going to an inner city private school.

Decent public transport to Yarrabilba is beyond hope. Not cost effective as it is so far away from existing infrastructure. It'll be a ghetto within a few years, though it may already be one.

It already is one. I've already heard some bad stories about what is going on out there. Huge issues with unemployment due to the place being so far removed from anything which generates employment, people paying more for goods because there's little competition between supermarkets (worse when there was only an IGA there), and kids turning up to Prep not having been toilet trained.

There is no vision for the place either. At least Springfield had a vision with Maha Sinnathamby and put in a lot of time & effort into bringing both a highway and a railway line out there. Waterford - Tamborine Road is a goat track by comparison.

[timh]

How about duplicating Shorncliffe, Sunshine Coast, Cleveland, Beenleigh, lines etc.

As for development, there you could extend the FG line out to Stamford or allow development along the  Rosewood line where there already is rail.

100% agree, Yarrabilba railway line is realistically a very low priority. Those duplication projects are absolutely more important and should be done already in a sensible world.

Also agree that developments like Yarrabilba should be done along the Rosewood line corridor. I went out there last year to have a look and there's plenty of suitable development sites, already with great access to public transport. Bizarre that it's not being developed like Yarrabilba is.

Having to develop a railway line to Yarrabilba isn't something we would even want to do in a sensible world, because in a sensible world, Yarrabilba never would have been developed, due to the problems James listed. But since it DOES exist, I think a discussion into how to improve the situation is reasonable.

[aldonius]

The whole thing is insane. Full build out is 30,000 + people.

As perhaps an insight into the thinking a decade ago, Connecting SEQ 2031 assigns three UrbanLink bus services (to Beenleigh, Loganlea and Flagstone). It also has the Park Ridge connector extended and upgraded as a motorway, and another extremely line-on-map east-west motorway from Maclean to Ormeau.

[Gazza]

I don't understand.

We have enough problems on the existing network without adding yet more lines.

How about duplicating Shorncliffe, Sunshine Coast, Cleveland, Beenleigh, lines etc.

As for development, there you could extend the FG line out to Stamford or allow development along the  Rosewood line where there already is rail.

It's quite simple, the projects you describe are probably going to be done in the decade post CRR....Although slow, the government does at least divert some funds towards amplification projects. In the time I have lived in Qld, I have seen the Darra Quad, Ferny Grove duplication, new pine rivers bridge, coomera duplication, and finally the Sunshine Coast duplication is at least happening now.

This leaves Cleveland and Shorncliffe.

Beenleigh I think will be addressed as part of this https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/map/gold-coast-rail-line-and-station-improvements

Allthough I agree the Rosewood corridor should have been more of a focus, in the long term, its pretty likely that southern part of Greater brisbane will eventually fill up, so it should have planning done for heavy rail.

[JimmyP]

Not knowing the area very well, would it be possible to have the line branching at Greenbank and travelling via Yarrabilba to Beenleigh at high speed (140-160km/h) and have the Gold Coast trains use this corridor instead of the Beenleigh line? Two birds with one stone maybe.

[STB]

This sort of stuff was already looked at way back in 2007ish between myself and my Senior.  Not sure what happened to it.  I think it got noted then disregarded in favour of a bus network (partially implemented with route 587 - the current 587, I think I gave the number 580.)

[verbatim9]

I don't understand.

We have enough problems on the existing network without adding yet more lines.

How about duplicating Shorncliffe, Sunshine Coast, Cleveland, Beenleigh, lines etc.

As for development, there you could extend the FG line out to Stamford or allow development along the  Rosewood line where there already is rail.

It's quite simple, the projects you describe are probably going to be done in the decade post CRR....Although slow, the government does at least divert some funds towards amplification projects. In the time I have lived in Qld, I have seen the Darra Quad, Ferny Grove duplication, new pine rivers bridge, coomera duplication, and finally the Sunshine Coast duplication is at least happening now.

This leaves Cleveland and Shorncliffe.

Beenleigh I think will be addressed as part of this https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/map/gold-coast-rail-line-and-station-improvements

Allthough I agree the Rosewood corridor should have been more of a focus, in the long term, its pretty likely that southern part of Greater brisbane will eventually fill up, so it should have planning done for heavy rail.

Yarrabilba Line is not going to happen this decade! There are already other projects in the pipeline that are likely to be completed and running by the end of this decade. Which includes fast rail to Toowoomba WTB Sunshine coast MCY and OOL.

Stage one capacity improvements for the Gold coast line which has funding is the relocation of Loganlea station.  This will include new alignments on approach to this station. Its a start anyway.

[verbatim9]

How about duplicating Shorncliffe, Sunshine Coast, Cleveland, Beenleigh, lines etc.

As for development, there you could extend the FG line out to Stamford or allow development along the  Rosewood line where there already is rail.

100% agree, Yarrabilba railway line is realistically a very low priority. Those duplication projects are absolutely more important and should be done already in a sensible world.

Also agree that developments like Yarrabilba should be done along the Rosewood line corridor. I went out there last year to have a look and there's plenty of suitable development sites, already with great access to public transport. Bizarre that it's not being developed like Yarrabilba is.

Having to develop a railway line to Yarrabilba isn't something we would even want to do in a sensible world, because in a sensible world, Yarrabilba never would have been developed, due to the problems James listed. But since it DOES exist, I think a discussion into how to improve the situation is reasonable.

it just requires a better bus service over time.

[#Metro]

100% agree, Yarrabilba railway line is realistically a very low priority. Those duplication projects are absolutely more important and should be done already in a sensible world.

Also agree that developments like Yarrabilba should be done along the Rosewood line corridor. I went out there last year to have a look and there's plenty of suitable development sites, already with great access to public transport. Bizarre that it's not being developed like Yarrabilba is.

Having to develop a railway line to Yarrabilba isn't something we would even want to do in a sensible world, because in a sensible world, Yarrabilba never would have been developed, due to the problems James listed. But since it DOES exist, I think a discussion into how to improve the situation is reasonable.

Is it a good idea to spend $3+ BN on extending heavy rail at 2 trains/hour to Yarrabilba, starving other areas of PT funding - both capital and operational $$$?

Are there plans for a proper CBD like Ipswich or Springfield, or is the whole thing residential/dormitory with people expected to travel 40 km to work and back daily?

The Rosewood line is duplicated along its entire length, could simply add trains to the Springfield line timetable to make 4 trains/hour and then make all Ipswich bound trains express all day. That would make the connection to Rosewood easier.

[Gazza]

Is it a good idea to spend $3+ BN on extending heavy rail at 2 trains/hour to Yarrabilba, starving other areas of PT funding - both capital and operational $$$?

I'm not having this argument again Metro.
If this was the mindset, we wouldn't even have the original lines in the network.

In terms of "other areas", most of SEQ is pretty much low density, and even the dense parts aren't really significantly denser, so its not like you are really starving one area to serve another, they are all on the same level IMO when talking about the main commuter belt.

(In other words, its not like Cleveland "deserves" heavy rail more than Redcliffe)

[verbatim9]

100% agree, Yarrabilba railway line is realistically a very low priority. Those duplication projects are absolutely more important and should be done already in a sensible world.

Also agree that developments like Yarrabilba should be done along the Rosewood line corridor. I went out there last year to have a look and there's plenty of suitable development sites, already with great access to public transport. Bizarre that it's not being developed like Yarrabilba is.

Having to develop a railway line to Yarrabilba isn't something we would even want to do in a sensible world, because in a sensible world, Yarrabilba never would have been developed, due to the problems James listed. But since it DOES exist, I think a discussion into how to improve the situation is reasonable.

Is it a good idea to spend $3+ BN on extending heavy rail at 2 trains/hour to Yarrabilba, starving other areas of PT funding - both capital and operational $$$?

Are there plans for a proper CBD like Ipswich or Springfield, or is the whole thing residential/dormitory with people expected to travel 40 km to work and back daily?

The Rosewood line is duplicated along its entire length, could simply add trains to the Springfield line timetable to make 4 trains/hour and then make all Ipswich bound trains express all day. That would make the connection to Rosewood easier.

The Rosewood line is going to become the Toowoomba line. Stage 1 to Withcott or Helidon?

[#Metro]

Yarrabilba, and other far-flung developments are just sapping PT infrastructure funding.

It is using rail - the most expensive highest capacity mode - as a coverage tool, and buses as some sort of rail substitute.

I agree with others in this thread, this is an "own goal". Why are developments like this even approved when there are other rail lines that could support development, and as Gazza says, low density (which implies room for infill).

We don't even have money to do CRR tunnel portals properly.

[nathandavid88]

Just run buses the 20 odd minutes from Yarrabilba to Loganlea Station, and when the Flagstone Line is built, run buses the 20 odd minutes to Flagstone Station.

I don't see any realistic way to run rail directly to Yarrabilba.