Australian PT pricing - not so bad?

[Zoiks]

Thoughts?

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/the-economy/public-transport-in-australian-cities-among-the-worlds-most-affordable-20150928-gjwkah.html

Brisbane tends to be more expensive than other Australian cities, but as a group we are relatively cheap (at least on a per KM basis)

[ozbob]

Thanks for the post.  Interesting way of assessing, Brisbane still out there!   

The problem with it is that it ignores the off sets available eg. capping and so forth, so doesn't tell the full story.  No single method does.

For example Melbourne ranked expensive, it reality it is dirt cheap when you consider caps and so forth.

On a concession Myki it cost me $2.25 to travel from Geelong to Southern Cross ... on a recent visit to Melbourne town ..

Just sayin' ...

Sydney is farcically cheap with $15 daily caps, $60 weekly caps, free after 8 paid journeys and $2.50 flat fares on Sundays ...  in fact the fare structures in Sydney and Melbourne are probably not sustainable for the mid to longer term IMHO.

[ozbob]

In fact, I think Melbourne is in a real fare mess.  Initiatives like the Free Tram Zone are not really helping either.  Most of the PT insiders etc. in Melbourne seem very much against it.  More polyticks corrupting rational fare policy.

I think there is some big pain on the way for Melbourne.  Will probably not happen until myki is upgraded, possibly by cubic, as a new generation system.  As systems upgrade I think point to point fares will become the norm.  With some offsets for frequent use, and possibly premium pricing.

[red dragin]

It also doesn't indicate service levels - I am sure the Tube runs harder than Brisbane, and covers more of the city.

[ozbob]

It also doesn't indicate service levels - I am sure the Tube runs harder than Brisbane, and covers more of the city.

Yo.  Good point.  Also worth considering is relative car costs etc.  Very difficult to be robust beyond reproach with these comparisons.

Frequency and fares is something I sometimes ponder on.  Is a one zone fare on say a CityGlider bus equivalent to a one zone fare on a 314?   

[SurfRail]

I agree with the dissenting views in the article - it's almost like looking at cost without benefit.  As a set of numbers its fairly meaningless.

[#Metro]

Some thoughts:

* Brisbane is still expensive even on these measures

* Minimum wage is not a good measure of affordability - the people who need affordable fares the most are not working because they do not have a job (effective minimum wage = $0), or have part-time/casual hours and do not have enough hours in the week to make ends meet. (NO CONCESSION IN QLD)

*VALUE FOR MONEY Service quality. Total costs of a trip = time costs + fare costs. If a bus is free but does not serve your area, how useful is it?

* TransLink Tracker = shows its unaffordable

[Zoiks]

I also agree with dissenting responses. Just saw it pop up and thought I would add it as a discussion topic.

[SurfRail]

^ Please continue!

One of the good things about our group is we can discuss the economics of public transport without it descending into flame wars between right and left.

[James]

Sydney is farcically cheap with $15 daily caps, $60 weekly caps, free after 8 paid journeys and $2.50 flat fares on Sundays ...  in fact the fare structures in Sydney and Melbourne are probably not sustainable for the mid to longer term IMHO.

I'd say one reason they're pricing PT so cheaply in Sydney is because the road network has pretty much collapsed in Sydney. Compared to Sydney, Brisbane doesn't really have a peak hour at all.

Some of the metrics used in this report are very odd - my favourite has to be "the amount of time worked on minimum wage to pay the fare to travel the longest possible trip." That'd be CBD -> Gympie North. At 240km (or something like that) and only $30 on a paper ticket, that's 12.5cents/km, or something like 30 seconds on the minimum wage. Compare that to a trip you'd actually undertake on the minimum wage (say, Geebung to Chermside). At $5 on a paper ticket travelling around 2.5-3km, that works out at a less-than-favourable $2/km, or 8 minutes on minimum wage.

You also need to factor in that Australia has very generous minimum wages (this is why everything is so expensive here - we actually pay people real wages) - if you put a minimum wage of $5/hr here, you'd see us ranked far lower despite the fact fares haven't moved anywhere.

[ozbob]

One of the issues with NSW is that the body responsible for fares - IPART, is removed from the network realities of public transport.  It is a disconnect.

[colinw]

The article is meaningless, because it doesn't take into account:

- reach, service level & convenience of services.
- cost (monetary & time) of the system vs the real competition (driving).

Compared to driving, Australian systems, particularly Brisbane, are hideously expensive in terms of both cost and lost time.

In London, Berlin, etc., if you drive rather than hitting the Tube/U-Bahn/Metro, you are mad.

In Brisbane, for most trips, the reverse is true.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> SEQ passengers pay among highest fares in world for average commuter trip: report

SOUTHEAST Queensland passengers pay among the highest fares in the world for an average commuter trip, a new report has found.

Transport economics consultancy NineSquared studied 29 public transport systems in 24 cities across Australia, North America, Europe and Asia to compile its Fare Benchmark Report.

Based on the average length of a trip, TransLink fares for trains, buses and ferries ranked as 10th priciest.

Commuters here pay more than in any other Australian capital, as well as the London bus network, the Metro in Paris and those using public transport in Los Angeles, Seoul and Beijing.

It is less, though, than the London Tube and the transit systems of New York, Toronto, Tokyo and Berlin.

But local commuter advocates say travellers in other locations enjoy superior levels of frequency and service.

"The London Underground may be more expensive but there is a train every few minutes. Most of SEQ has poor frequency and service," RAIL Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said.

Unlike TransLink services, others had options such as weekly or monthly tickets to reduce costs for regular commuters. The only discount in the SEQ region is free travel after nine paid go card trips in one week.

"Commuters spend their lunch hour taking short trips to clock up nine as quickly as possible so they can travel to work free later in the week," Mr Dow said.

"Even Sydney has a $15 daily cap and a $60 weekly cap."

The NineSquared report used the minimum wage in each country to calculate ­affordability based on how long someone would have to work to pay for a fare.

Director Robin Barlow said it was often said that Australian fares were among the world's most expensive, so they were put to the test.

With an average commute of 15.4km in southeast Queensland, a minimum-wage fast-food worker on $18.52 an hour would need to work 30.19 minutes to pay for a three-zone return fare — that's more than 2½ hours each week just to get to work.

The findings have been sent to a taskforce of experts reviewing public transport fares in southeast Queensland, which will report to Deputy Premier Jackie Trad.

Mr Barlow said while research indicated that fare levels were "not over the top" compared to other cities around the world, it did highlight issues such as whether the current system of 23 fare zones was the best approach.

The panel could also investigate weekly, monthly and annual passes and caps, he said.

Queensland is the only state in Australia that does not provide concessions for the unemployed.
Originally published as Fare way to go to catch up