TGV Marseille to Euro Disney (Paris)

[rtt_rules]

I think most who read my comments on HSR for Australia would know that prior to taking this trip I wasn't a supporter, at the end of this I'll let you know where I stand now.

We caught the 9:12AM TGV from Marseille to Euro Disney which I understand is on the outskirts of Paris. The rail route is I believe about 783km and only marginally longer than the road distance of 774km (both for Paris). Trip time is about 3:20 and probably for the distance one of TGV's fastest longest routes and comparable to Syd-Mel (878km). So with stop times removed, the average speed was over 250km/hr.

EDIT: I found out the average speed is around 262k/hr

Our train was a 8 car + 2 loco older single decker set. We were in car 7. The train had just come from Toulon and hence opposite direction back to Paris after a 10min turnaround.

Waiting for the train was getting annoying as 15min before the train was due to leave, there was no assigned platform along with other trains, rather a larger crowd waiting at monitors.. not a big station, but with about 15 platforms it would be nice to know, however the man playing the piano (rountine) does supply soothing music.

there are only about 9 TGV trains a day from Marseille, city of under 4m to the much larger Paris. (I compare this to Sydney and wonder how many trains a day are viable)

EDIT: Petey is correct, when I searched on frequency previously I had Euro Disney stop for Paris, yes on rechecking there is a mostly hrly service from 5:30 to 20'ish.

Train has arrived, on we get, we are in a 4 seat 2 facing 2 with table and power outlet next to door. There is limited storage in vestible for bags, but I get our suitcase in ok and rest above our seats in the double racks.

As we leave I note people are sitting on fold down seats in the entrance next to doors? Are these discount last minute non assigned seating tickets?

Train is off, the top end speeds are hard to read as it doesn't feel like 300km/hr, but there is some movement within train just like XPT so hardly like being on glass as some has described to me.

At Lyon, another set is added at back this time DD set, but we didn't notice until we got off, so a smooth shunt.

To Be Continued

The quaity of the carriage fit out (our 2nd class car) reminded me alot of the XPT and probably not much different in leg room or seat comfort. It was fairly crowded so walking up to the buffet car wasn't going to happen easily with legs and bags in the passage ways and asles. Our car held about 52 people in the normal seats, but another varying 6-8 were in the door section on the end.

Seats also are not turned so 50% face backwards.

The trip cost us about 290Euro for 2 +2. We could have done cheaper on the other operator and even TGV, but time and ability to change travel times didn't suit us.

Apart from fact it did the nearly 750km trip in just over 4hr (we were over 30min late), there was nothing special (wife was not overly impressed either, probably because the train was so full and the inability for SNCF to nominate a platform until alomost 10min prior to departure) and I've had better experiences on slower trains, such as a 2.5hr trip at up to 220km/hr train through Sweeden to Copenhagen. Ignoring this do i think this is the technology for Syd-Mel, still no and its actually too slow, you need to push 400km/hr. We have far more rail priorities for our limited money, but thats another story. 

EDIT: Tomorrow we could catch TGV to Paris or RER. 82Euro for 10-15min trip, plus 1-2 changes. (depending on which TGV destination) to get to our destination for TGV, or RER 45min +5min on another line for about 30Euro. RER here we come

[ozbob]

^ 

[petey3801]

The TGV to Marseille certainly reaches 300km/h, I think it might actually do 320km/h in places, but not 100% sure on that.

You must have been on a slow(er) service if you went in to Lyon itself, when I went from Paris to Marseille, we were on a non-stopper and bypassed Lyon.

Also, I don't understand where you get the idea there are only 9 TGVs each way between Paris and Marseille per day? Maybe to Euro Disney there are only 9, but to Paris itself (Gare de Lyon) there are a more than that! Just having a look at the timetable for a Monday in January, there are TGVs leaving Marseille bound for Paris at:
05:36, 06:06, 07:36 08:36, 09:36, 10:36, 11:31, 1:36pm, 3:36, 4:36, 5:36, 6:06, 6:36, 7:36, 8:06

Travel times are either 3h5min, 3hr17min or 3hr22min.

As for the fold down seats, I have no idea to be honest! Didn't know there was such a thing to be honest!

Enjoy the trip!

[petey3801]

All Good! I think SNCF need to look at putting a few more TGVs on in certain places at times, they do seem to get awfully crowded, even on non-holiday etc. days!

I've mostly only traveled in First Class on the TGVs (thanks to the EuRail pass, which is only available in First Class for adults), so haven't had too much experience in second except for a trip from Lyon to Paris, which was quite full indeed. Even though it was a Duplex! No idea whether the fares make a profit for SNCF or not, but I imagine the reason as to why they're on the exxy side is simply due to one thing - Because they can. They still manage to have mostly full trains with high prices, so if you can charge that much and still sell out trains, go for it! And they have!
Also, with a family, it's always going to be cheaper to drive etc. Just the nature of the beast! Same problem with flying.

They do need to sort out the platform thing though. Similar happens at Gare de Lyon/Est/Nord, where the platform isn't allocated for the train until not too long before departure (sometimes - other times it is allocated quite early). It does make things tricky, although possibly slightly better than the alternative of the train being allocated a platform early on, having pax all waiting on that platform then changing at late notice, with some pax not knowing/realising etc, and missing their train (or, getting on one that isn't theirs!). But still, something that certainly needs working on!

The average speed of around 262km/h isn't too bad, especially if it was a partially stopping service.

Personally I quite enjoy the TGVs, probably as i'm generally in 1st, with a bit more room to move etc, but I much prefer it over driving and flying!

For Aus, the second part of the HSR study actually preferred a 400km/h+ alignment instead of the 320km/h style alignments in EU.
I think the main reason France in particular, and EU in general, is mostly 300-320km/h is simply due to legacy. Most of the track was built to 300km/h, with later track and trains up to 320km/h, simply because that's what was already there. Same with line extentions. It wouldn't surprise me if a number of the newer build lines are actually built to 400km/h standards, it's just that they don't have the trains capable of doing that speed at the moment, or if some can get that higher speed, it would be pointless at the moment due to flexibility in rollingstock meaning any locos/trains on many runs, so, like the Springfield line, it may be posted at up to 140km/h, but due to the high amount of the fleet only capable of 100km/h, it's timetabled as 100km/h, so pointless going any faster.
That's just my own rambling and assumptions, no basis in fact, so could be completely different! But the HSRp2 study certainly looked at a 400km/h alignment, hence the much higher costs and higher amounts of tunneling etc.

[minbrisbane]

I believe the Chinese had scheduled services at 350~400km/h but speeds were reduced after the derailment a few years back.