Article: Transport plan to ease six of the worst

[ozbob]

From the Sydney Morning Herald click here!

Transport plan to ease six of the worst

Transport plan to ease six of the worst
September 4, 2012 Jacob Saulwick

A MOTORWAY under the inner west and dedicated bus corridors to the northern beaches and on Victoria Road will be included in a draft version of the state's next transport plan, to be released today.

The draft plan, intended to set the direction for transport policy over the next 20 years, will include another M5 tunnel, a second rail crossing for Sydney Harbour, a shift to single-deck trains for part of the CityRail system, and a redesigned bus network for Sydney.

But, as the Herald reported on Saturday, the plan will shy away from specific commitments to funding and start times for the initiatives needed to improve Sydney's creaking system.

Excerpts already released show planners at Transport for NSW have identified a ''super six'' list of congested transport corridors through Sydney.

These are Sydney Airport to the central business district; Rouse Hill to Macquarie Park; Liverpool to Sydney Airport; Parramatta to the CBD via Ryde; Parramatta to the CBD via Strathfield; and Mona Vale to the CBD.

But the excerpts demonstrate that serious improvement to those corridors is years away. The M4 East tunnel, for instance, to run between Strathfield and Sydney Airport and Port Botany, is listed as a ''long-term'' priority.

A rapid bus system, in which buses would run on a dedicated corridor, from the northern beaches to the city is also listed as ''long term''. So is a rapid bus system or light rail along Victoria Road.

In the meantime, ''bus improvements'' for the northern beaches and Victoria Road can be delivered in the ''medium term''.

The 370-page draft plan will include more than 200 actions and recommendations. It will be followed by a final plan in November. A separate plan, the State Infrastructure Strategy, will be presented to the government this month by its advisory body, Infrastructure NSW. It is unclear how the plans will relate.

Today's excerpts say the extra capacity provided by the upgrades of the M5 and M4 mean the most significant travel time savings are likely to be between Liverpool and the airport and Parramatta and the city via Strathfield.

There would also be some relief in the congestion on other corridors as people transferred from cars to public transport, ''given the much improved public transport service delivered by Sydney's Rail Future and the revamp of the bus network''.

The excerpts also say the government will explore the possibility of another motorway linking the M2 and M4 via Gladesville for 20 years' time.

The Herald has reported that the plan will recommit to an M6 motorway from Tempe to Sutherland Shire, instead of building new public transport.

The plan will highlight new bus services to the north-west and south-west, including bus corridors between Camden and Leppington via Oran Park; Bringelly and Campbelltown via Oran Park; Rouse Hill and Schofields via the Ponds; and Mt Druitt and Schofields via Marsden Park.

In outer Sydney, there is mention of quarantining road space for the Bells Line of Road and, for regional NSW, a ''bridges for the bush plan'', continued investment in the Pacific Highway and a program of town bypasses.

The government has already revealed its plan for Sydney's train system, based on the decision to build the north-west rail link as a single-deck train shuttle service between Rouse Hill and Epping.

The shuttle will eventually extend from Epping through the city in a tunnel between St Leonards and Redfern, introducing single-deck trains to the Bankstown and Illawarra lines

[ozbob]

From the Sydney Morning Herald click here!

Transport plan long on hope, light on detail

Transport plan long on hope, light on detail
September 4, 2012 - 2:54PM Jacob Saulwick

Four new motorways through Sydney and a second rail crossing for Sydney Harbour are the centrepiece projects in the O'Farrell government's draft transport master plan, released this morning.

But the plan does not specify starting times for any of the projects, some of which have been mooted for decades, and fails to detail how they will be paid for.

The Premier, Barry O'Farrell, the Transport Minister, Gladys Berejiklian, and the Roads Minister, Duncan Gay, are discussed the draft transport master plan at a press conference.
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The draft plan, already available at this website, precedes a final transport masterplan to be released in November. 

But the draft, which runs to 370 pages and has been in development for more than a year, offers little detail on when desperately needed projects will start and how they will be built and paid for.

It breaks initiatives into short term (up to five years), medium term (five-10 years) and longer term (10-20 years).

The four motorway projects it endorses are the M5 East freeway expansion, the M4 extension featuring a tunnel under the inner west, the F6 to the Sutherland Shire, and the F3 to M2 link in northern Sydney.

A second harbour rail crossing would be a "long-term" initiative.

It would follow the completion of the North West Rail Link to Rouse Hill.

The plan also discusses light rail through Sydney's CBD and into the eastern Suburbs, but does not commit to it.

And as for how projects will be funded, the plan advocates "efficient public sector operating models", "smarter project procurement", "consideration of the benefits of more efficient road user charges" for trucks and motorway users, unspecified "value capture" from major transport investments, and "identifying future funding opportunities by working with NSW Treasury."

The plan identifies a "super six" list of congested transport corridors through Sydney.

These are Sydney Airport to the central business district; Rouse Hill to Macquarie Park; Liverpool to Sydney Airport; Parramatta to the CBD via Ryde; Parramatta to the CBD via Strathfield; and Mona Vale to the CBD.

But serious improvement to those corridors remains years away. The M4 East tunnel, for instance, to run between Strathfield and Sydney Airport and Port Botany, is listed as a "long-term" priority.

A rapid bus system, in which buses would run on a dedicated corridor, from the northern beaches to the city is also listed as "long term". So is a rapid bus system or light rail along Victoria Road.

In the meantime, "bus improvements" for the northern beaches and Victoria Road can be delivered in the "medium term".

The 370-page draft plan includes more than 200 actions and recommendations. It will be followed by a final plan in November. A separate plan, the State Infrastructure Strategy, will be presented to the government this month by its advisory body, Infrastructure NSW. It is unclear how the plans will relate.

The plan says the extra capacity provided by the upgrades of the M5 and M4 mean the most significant travel time savings are likely to be between Liverpool and the airport and Parramatta and the city via Strathfield.

There would also be some relief in the congestion on other corridors as people transferred from cars to public transport, "given the much improved public transport service delivered by Sydney's Rail Future and the revamp of the bus network".

It also says the government will explore the possibility of another motorway linking the M2 and M4 via Gladesville for 20 years' time.

The plan also discusses new bus services to the north-west and south-west, including bus corridors between Camden and Leppington via Oran Park; Bringelly and Campbelltown via Oran Park; Rouse Hill and Schofields via the Ponds; and Mt Druitt and Schofields via Marsden Park.

In outer Sydney, there is mention of quarantining road space for the Bells Line of Road and, for regional NSW, a "bridges for the bush plan", continued investment in the Pacific Highway and a program of town bypasses.

The government has already revealed its plan for Sydney's train system, based on the decision to build the north-west rail link as a single-deck train shuttle service between Rouse Hill and Epping.

The shuttle will eventually extend from Epping through the city in a tunnel between St Leonards and Redfern, introducing single-deck trains to the Bankstown and Illawarra lines.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/transport-plan-long-on-hope-light-on-detail-20120904-25bkn.html

[ozbob]

NSW Long Term Transport Master Plan - a new approach to transport planning --> http://haveyoursay.nsw.gov.au/transportmasterplan

[ozbob]

From the Sydney Morning Herald click here!

Solving the gridlock: more roads

Solving the gridlock: more roads
September 5, 2012 Jacob Saulwick

SYDNEY motorists will have to wait until the end of the year to find out which motorway will be the first Barry O'Farrell will build under the Coalition government's new transport plan.

The release yesterday of the 370-page draft master plan signalled a shift in policy in support of a web of motorways to solve Sydney's chronic congestion.

But it also delayed decisions on several pressing problems, including when and how to pay for new public transport projects, and did not specify detailed routes for the new motorways.

''This plan will stand the test of time,'' said the Transport Minister, Gladys Berejiklian. ''What is in here is evidence based.''
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The plan makes a number of motorways policy for the first time in years. Previous governments had dropped plans for an M4 East tunnel and an F6 motorway through southern Sydney in favour of public transport that was never delivered.

But the draft plan, which took more than a year, does not state the order in which new roads would be built.

The decision will wait on a final plan in November, a separate report from Infrastructure NSW this month, and another report on the state's land use strategy.

The draft plan offers a stark vision of Sydney's transport nightmare. Without action, peak-hour car travel times are predicted to increase by 15 minutes between Parramatta and Sydney's central business district in 20 years. They will increase another 15 minutes in peak hour on the notoriously congested M5 between Liverpool and the airport.

The CityRail network is forecast to exceed its capacity within 10 years. To address the crisis, the plan offers aspirational projects without funding promises.

The motorway projects include the M4 East, to be built with a tunnel under the inner west to connect to the airport; another M5 East tunnel; a link between the F3 and the M2 under Pennant Hills Road; and an F6 motorway on a reserved corridor through much of southern Sydney.

The Roads Minister, Duncan Gay, said he would like them all to be built in the next 20 years but offered no guarantee.

The plan endorses a light-rail line down George Street in the CBD and to Randwick but Ms Berejiklian said a decision on whether to build it was pending.

The plan scotches a proposed light-rail line along Broadway from Central Station to Sydney University and talks of a redesigned bus network that would require more people to change buses but offer more regular services.

The plan says new strategies are needed to replace the ageing ferry fleet and CountryLink trains - but does not provide them.

Industry groups largely endorsed the document but the chief executive of the Tourism and Transport Forum, John Lee, a former director-general of transport in NSW, said the plan ''should include indicative costings and funding plans for the first five years''.

The opposition spokeswoman on transport, Penny Sharpe, said: ''This plan is just another series of lines on a map that will never be built.''

[somebody]

Excuse me, if you're waiting for the bus it hasn't even been built yet

Date
    September 5, 2012
Category
    Opinion

Sandy Thomas

'In 750 words, please analyse the new 372-page NSW draft Transport Master Plan.''

A cow of a request? Not so - because if ever there were a lightweight piece of fluff, this plan is it. The real challenge is to fit into this space what the draft plan doesn't say.

The plan does make many of the right noises, with discussions on a host of transport issues that could have been cut and pasted from the Greiner and Fahey governments' equivalent plans in the mid-1990s and Labor's endless repetitions of them.

So perhaps we should overlook the facts that greenhouse gas emissions rate only four brief passing mentions, that ''peak oil'' issues, of concern these days even to the IMF, are not mentioned at all, and that even though ''integrated land use and transport planning'' is endlessly trumpeted, the plan is silent about the future land-use scenarios the plan actually assumes for NSW.
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The real surprise is the disconnection between the plan's worthy but tainted background discussions and its numerous but very limited proposals for government action.

Although the Transport Minister has claimed otherwise, almost all of these proposals are not new. Some are praiseworthy, even though there are no timing or funding commitments. The desperately needed second harbour and CBD rail crossing and the proposed transition to a truly connected public transport network, and not just a Sydney CBD radial network, are perhaps the clearest examples.

But if you want answers about the plan's proposals for freight transport around the airport and Port Botany, ''reformed'' fare structures, ''realigned'' bus services, a ''redesigned'' ferry network, parking policies, light rail, CBD cycleways, new interchange strategies, new intercity and country trains, a ''possible'' new motorway between Lane Cove and Camperdown, wholesale changes to motorway tolls and, perhaps most importantly, what the ''new funding options'' deemed essential by the plan will actually be, you'll just have to wait, because the new strategic plan is to develop strategic plans on these issues.

And a plan without clear funding is no plan at all, especially when ''the long term'' is now only 10 to 20 years.

In other areas the government has quietly walked away from previously proposed projects. The light rail line to Sydney University has been discarded and even the George Street CBD line is subject to ''government endorsement'' and ''ongoing feasibility work''. The upgrading of the freight railway to Port Botany and the resurrection of the Maldon-Dombarton freight line have again been put on hold, even though both will be essential if the government's passenger and freight plans are to be realised. A critical and long-proposed new freight rail line in western Sydney will be ''planned for'', but there will be no reservation of land for this line. And even on the supposedly ''most constrained'' transport corridors, many of the enhancements are only ''potential'', not commitments.

On many issues, especially in regional NSW and western Sydney, the plan contains only vague generalisations, often piggy-backing on action by the Commonwealth or local councils.

But you'd better get used to B-triples and other monster trucks instead of rail freight. (The roadworks for this have attracted the wonderful euphemism ''Bridges for the Bush''.)

In other areas the plan's proposals are just plain silly. The plan persists with the myth that single-deck trains in Sydney, boasting ''increased standing room and flexible spaces'', will somehow carry more people than double deckers, even though both can operate at high frequencies on well-designed new lines. It also ignores the safety problems of forcing interchanges between crowded trains across narrow platforms at Chatswood and later mixing these trains with much heavier freight and passenger trains south of the harbour.

High-speed rail access is also studiously ignored, apart from generous commitments to wait for the Commonwealth to develop its ideas.

But in its most dominant feature the plan is not only silly but (with apologies to Alan Jones) seems determined to ''destroy the joint''.

Its overt reliance on multiple new motorways (only one of them definitely underground) to ''relieve congestion'' in Sydney, along newly discovered ''missing motorway links'' that even the RTA was unable to identify in the past, is straight from the 1950s. When will they ever learn?

The plan abrogates Transport for NSW's statutory responsibilities for these motorways by leaving the ultimate decision to Nick Greiner's and Paul Broad's Infrastructure NSW.

There are no prizes for guessing which way they'll jump.

As Paul Broad has said, in supporting more and more motorways in the past, ''It's a no-brainer.'' How true.

Sandy Thomas was a member of the Herald's Independent Public Transport Inquiry. He runs Catalyst Communications, a consultancy specialising in public and private infrastructure and services.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/excuse-me-if-youre-waiting-for-the-bus-it-hasnt-even-been-built-yet-20120904-25cjj.html#ixzz25Zq4bpps

Plan to turn buses around before they hit city

Date
    September 5, 2012 - 4:25PM

Jacob Saulwick
Transport Reporter

    Bus routes into the city (jpg)

Thousands of bus commuters to Sydney's CBD would need to hop off at major interchanges on the outskirts of the city before arriving at their desks in the morning, under proposals outlined in yesterday's draft transport master plan.

The interchanges might be an inconvenience. But they might also be necessary, with the city already groaning under an unsustainable volume of bus traffic.

Yesterday's plan puts the creation of new bus routes and interchanges some years away. Yet it also outlines the philosophy that would be adopted if a government was ever brave enough to redesign the city's bus network.
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In short, the philosophy recognises a simple trade-off: to have more frequent bus services, bus commuters would also need to get out and change more often.

Fewer bus routes would take people all the way from their home to their final destination.

This is how the master plan puts it: "The current radial one-seat bus service network, which attempts to provide single-service bus transport from many origins to many destinations, has little capacity for growth and is not adequate to the task of meeting complex 21st century travel patterns."

The frequency of buses on major cross-city routes will increase.

But "this will be enabled in part by consolidating some existing low frequency bus routes onto major corridors, and by reallocating resources to provide higher frequency on trunk corridors and their rearranged intersecting feeder routes", the plan says.

"The need for interchange may be increased, but the inconvenience of interchange is reduced due to higher service frequencies."

All this is years away. The draft transport master plan puts "moving from a radial to a networked bus system" into the 10 years and more bracket.

But the sheer weight of numbers might force the government into overhauling the manner in which buses move through Sydney's CBD much earlier than that.

During the busiest two hours of the morning, 1500 buses converge on a few narrow and congested corridors in the middle of Sydney.

And around York Street and Wynyard Station, the roads are already demonstrably at choking point.

To cope, the transport plan proposes turning more buses around before they hit the city. And it proposes running some buses on different roads into and out of the city.

"The reconfigured bus network will be planned around the principles of 'near-side' termination and some through-routing, rather than 'far-side' termination," the plan says.

"Instead of the current arrangement under which many bus routes enter the CBD, travel through and terminate at the opposite side of the CBD, creating congestion and layover challenges, the future network will see additional cross-city Metrobus-style routes that traverse the CBD, terminating at destinations beyond," it says.

"Local routes will terminate just inside the CBD [the 'near side'], allowing passengers to connect to other high-capacity modes such as rail or light rail, or to walk a short distance to their final destination."

This is the sort of policy that has been championed by the lord mayor, Clover Moore.

But Cr Moore, like many others, is frustrated it will take so long to implement, with the draft transport plan putting it off for at least five years.

She is also frustrated that there is as yet no policy on fares – no policy that would not penalise people who get out of one bus and transfer to another.

"While it's great the government is looking at the way buses operate in our CBD, the plan is light on detail and commitment," Cr Moore said.

"The City [of Sydney] strongly supports integrated fares but there is no commitment in the plan to ensure that people do not have to pay more if they require two different transport modes to complete their journey," she said.

"And there's no commitment to matching the frequency of different modes of transport. This is important because research shows that people will only change modes if there is a tangible benefit in travel time to their final destination."

The Greens transport spokeswoman, Cate Faehrmann, is another calling for faster action.

"New bus interchanges in the city should be fast tracked in order to ensure our city doesn't come to a complete standstill when these new buses come on line," Ms Faehrmann said.

"I doubt frustrated commuters would mind having to alight a few stops earlier at an interchange because right now they are spending an inordinate amount of time at a standstill and this will only get worse."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/plan-to-turn-buses-around-before-they-hit-city-20120905-25e6p.html#ixzz25ZqEkjYR

[Jonno]

Any Transport Plan that has major freeway expansion as a priority is flawed and useless.  Better to do nothing than try to outbuild congestion with road capacity...even if it is tolled.

[somebody]

Sandy Thomas has nailed it - it's a lightweight piece of fluff.

However, I will add that it's exactly the kind of thing that Labor were voted out for doing, now the Libs are doing it to, as I predicted.

[#Metro]

In short, the philosophy recognises a simple trade-off: to have more frequent bus services, bus commuters would also need to get out and change more often.

Fewer bus routes would take people all the way from their home to their final destination.

This is how the master plan puts it: "The current radial one-seat bus service network, which attempts to provide single-service bus transport from many origins to many destinations, has little capacity for growth and is not adequate to the task of meeting complex 21st century travel patterns."

SOMEONE SHOULD TELL BCC!!

[#Metro]

This is what I find funny:

The NSW Government is taking a new approach to transport planning by collaborating with those whose livelihood depends on the quality of the transport network – our customers.

Our extensive consultation program aims to involve the whole of NSW in the process of creating a NSW Long Term Transport Master Plan.

So the "new approach" is to actually involve the customer! Amazing!! One wonders what the 'old' approach was, LOL.

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> O'Farrell's plan: they'll believe it when they see it

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Long wait for bus interchanges to solve traffic woes in CBD

[somebody]

Sending buses to the city over long haul routes is clearly a sign of missing alt infrastructure. Potentially in the short term this is viable and really only practical outcome, but these buses will only add to the city traffic jam.

Whats needed
- NWRL
- Completion of NWRL to city and SW Metro conversion as proposed
- Extension of NWRL to Richmond line
- Expansion of the Metro network to cover,
   - Nth Beachs branching off nth of Nth Syd, following Spit road, around back of Manly and up the coast following Pittwater Rd.
   - SE Metro line or Anzac Pde LR line via NSW uni, SCG and hospital to start with
   - Inner West Metro to replace the inner west HR and allow express running of DD services OR fast tunnel for Western DD's and conversion of the Inner Wester Local tracks to Metro
   - Inner NW Metro following Victoria Rd to West Ryde station via Top Ryde

Paramatta to Epping Railway, either Metro or DD

- 4 tracks Thornleigh to Hornsby
- 4 tracks Nth Straithfield to River and on nth side of river to West Ryde
- Flyover for freight at Nth Straithfield
- Realign and tripple Nth Main from Mt Colah through through Berwora, then head east over freeway and a flatter more direct route to Hawesberry River. Cowan will again be the terminus for CR services with the line nth of Cowan removed.
- Reaign and tripple the tracks from nth side of Hawesberry to Woy Woy tunnel

- Sth coast Main, realign and duplicate

- Finish the Eastern Suburbs railway, ie stations at Woolhara, Bondi Beach, but I'm also thinking a station half way between Bondi Jnct and Beach as its nearly 3km and only a short line.

- Sth Main, realign and triplicate to at least Moss Vale (doesn't need to be sparked)

- Increase caapcity on East Hills line to enable more express running from SW.

I have placed an increased focus of connecting lines to form ring routes and back tracks as these will be increasingly required as the city and population base moves west.

Funding,
- Mainlines/interstate routes you can get Fed co-funding as it helps the freighters and removes the curfew
- Metro, PPP
- DD, defered road fundung and probably a congestion tax.

regards
Shane

So a concrete fiesta which has no apparent increase for what is really the only critical infrastructure need - more paths for the Western Line.

What about faster, more frequent and more integrated services?

[Jonno]

Sydney Morning Herald --> O'Farrell's plan: they'll believe it when they see it

Time for Australia to recognise we have built cities that are so inefficient in moving people and keeping them safe, healthy, educated, employed, etc that we cannot afford them anymore.  All the plans in the world only keep highlighting we cannot afford our cities!!!

[somebody]

You mean this:

- Inner West Metro to replace the inner west HR and allow express running of DD services OR fast tunnel for Western DD's and conversion of the Inner Wester Local tracks to Metro

Ok, but you seem to be spending a lot more money than you need to.

[SurfRail]

You mean this:

- Inner West Metro to replace the inner west HR and allow express running of DD services OR fast tunnel for Western DD's and conversion of the Inner Wester Local tracks to Metro

Ok, but you seem to be spending a lot more money than you need to.

I expect RTT's plans are suitable for getting patronage up to maybe as far as 40% of motorised trips.  That is a good move.

But, you certainly would not need most of it to accommodate existing growth and proportions.  The question is whether the existing proportion is what it should be - Sydney's is still the highest in Australia and it is still fairly mediocre.

[somebody]

Sydney's only the highest in peak hour.  Melbourne has passed it for all day patronage, at least according to some sources.

[#Metro]

I've heard similar, Syd moves more in peak, but off-peak behind Mel. But is this rail, tram or all including bus?

For its size, Mel's train network is more penetrating. Syd has outgrown its network.

Toronto only has 69 stations and 4 lines. Trains run every 5 minutes or better, all day, and every 2-3 minutes during peak hour.
In comparison, Brisbane has 85 train stations within the BCC boundaries (which is ~ 50 % of the train network), Melbourne has 200 stations and Sydney 300....

[SurfRail]

Brisbane has 85 train stations within the BCC boundaries

Yes, many of them in exciting and busy locations like:

- Bindha
- Sunshine
- Hemmant
- Rocklea

etc.

[Gazza]

- Hemmant

I've never understood why Hemmant and surrounds is not being filled up with housing. Lots of vacant land, and not excessively far from the city.

Toronto only has 69 stations and 4 lines. Trains run every 5 minutes or better, all day, and every 2-3 minutes during peak hour.
In comparison, Brisbane has 85 train stations within the BCC boundaries (which is ~ 50 % of the train network), Melbourne has 200 stations and Sydney 300....

Toronto has more than 4 lines....What about the GO Transit lines?

[somebody]

Toronto only has 69 stations and 4 lines. Trains run every 5 minutes or better, all day, and every 2-3 minutes during peak hour.
In comparison, Brisbane has 85 train stations within the BCC boundaries (which is ~ 50 % of the train network), Melbourne has 200 stations and Sydney 300....

Relevance?

I've heard similar, Syd moves more in peak, but off-peak behind Mel. But is this rail, tram or all including bus?

Including ALL, meaning including V/Line, Interurbans, regional buses etc.

Obviously, I was referring to a per capita (MEL & SYD) basis.

I'm not 100% sure if MEL is still ahead when V/Line is excluded.

[Gazza]

Relevance?

Guessing it's one of those facts that people love to repost at every chance, ad nauseum, no matter the discussion.
"The 682m passing loop at Palmwoods is the shortest on the entire 1680km North Coast Line" is another example 

[SurfRail]

Relevance?

Guessing it's one of those facts that people love to repost at every chance, ad nauseum, no matter the discussion.
"The 682m passing loop at Palmwoods is the shortest on the entire 1680km North Coast Line" is another example 

In defence of that one, it is highly relevant to an issue specific to us (ie reducing the number of freight paths required to do the same job).

Comparisons to the TTC Subway are a bit dubious.

[somebody]

Sydney's only the highest in peak hour.  Melbourne has passed it for all day patronage, at least according to some sources.

Excluding V/Line, Mel carries 538 million p.a. vs Syd with 546 million excluding regional bus but including regional Cityrail.

That puts MEL FAR ahead per capita, even if Cityrail carry more than Melbourne Metro.  MEL's tram system carries a huge number of people, albeit not very far.

[#Metro]

Yes, many of them in exciting and busy locations like:

- Bindha
- Sunshine
- Hemmant
- Rocklea

etc.

Er,

[SurfRail]

Sydney's only the highest in peak hour.  Melbourne has passed it for all day patronage, at least according to some sources.

Excluding V/Line, Mel carries 538 million p.a. vs Syd with 546 million excluding regional bus but including regional Cityrail.

That puts MEL FAR ahead per capita, even if Cityrail carry more than Melbourne Metro.  MEL's tram system carries a huge number of people, albeit not very far.

What's the breakdown on those numbers?  I thought it was something like:

Cityrail - 300m total
STA includind Newcastle - 200m total
Public ferries - 14m
Private buses - 100m
Light rail and monorail - 5m

for around 610-620m, vs

Metro - 200m
Yarra Trams - 180m
Metropolitan buses - 120m
V/line - 13m

for around 510-520m.

Perhaps my numbers are wrong but I would be very surprised to hear that Melbourne has outstripped Sydney.

[HappyTrainGuy]

In the defense of Sunshine. It might not have the patronage of other stations but its heavily used by impared/disabled/mentally/handicaped people as there are local business surrounding the station that provide jobs/training and opportunities for advancing in futher employment. There are no bus services whatsoever in the area and many can't/don't drive so the railway station is a vital link for these people. I for one wouldn't want to see the station go.

Bindha does have some patronage from the nearby businesses but accessing the station for resedential use is somewhat limited. Eg at night walking through a empty industrial complex, through a unlit park and then down some poorly lit streets when they can cover a similar distance to/from Virginia which has better lighting and feels more secure.

[somebody]

I knew I should have provided the breakdown when I posted

MEL Train: 227.1
MEL Tram: 185.7
MEL Bus: 110.9

SYD Train: 295
SYD STA Bus: 191
SYD Private Bus: 46.5
SYD Ferry: 14
SYD LR: 4 (oops, forgot that)

Seems the difference is private bus.  My sources are Veolia self reporting that they have 11.5 million and the tender site.

[somebody]

Oh, and I was excluding Outer Metro buses.

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Sydney transport plan 'arse-about' - Greiner

[colinw]

I wish Nick Greiner would just go away!

I really wish ICAC could be triggered to investigate just what the relationships are between certain individuals in senior roles, the developers in the Newcastle CBD, and how it relates to the shameful decision to cut the Newcastle line back to Wickham.  I think the results of such an investigation would be very interesting, much like the current probe into Obeid.