Klumpp Rd Park n' Ride

[O_128]

I would have sold the land to a developer to build 200 apartments.

[dwb]

I don't believe charging 100% for park and ride is a valid arguement within an context of so much subsidy, at least upon launch.

If you want to guarantee failure, then that is the policy you'd implement, 100% cost recovery.

Roll on the failure.  Then that will stop calls for more parking.

Sometimes, just sometimes I think many on here are naive ideologues. Most of the time I don't.

Not only that but it seems there's little business sense here either. An empty car park doesn't make money.

Nor land developers, without development approval or precommited buyers good luck with your project to build 200 apartments.

[colinw]

An empty car park doesn't make money.

Neither does a free one.

If people think paying a relatively modest fee to park at a park & ride is too expensive, then let 'em drive to the city and pay full commercial rates for parking. Plus a congestion charge or cordon fee if I had my way.  Better still, distance based road taxes.

[somebody]

Better still, distance based road taxes.

Fuel excise does this job.  The problem is that it is too cheap.

[techblitz]

So as of monday the new stops will be implemented yet for some reason they refuse/cannot put a stop near the park and ride.

Taken Monday, ‎2 ‎July ‎2012, ‏‎10:42:44 AM

This is the typical view of the park and ride during weekdays due to the what i would call a fair hike to the nearest bus stop @ hibiscus and now the same distance (opposite direction) to the new stop at clairvaux mckillop college.

Call people petty for not wanting to walk the distance to the bus stops but this photo paints a 1000 words on what people think of the walk.Could also be the 120 deviation through griffith uni that turns people off this park and ride.Who knows.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

29th July 2012

The great parking failure

Greetings,

Here is a happy snap of the Klumpp Road Park n' ride, 2 Jul 2012, 10.43am.


http://ps4.tv/images/klumpp-rd-park-ride.jpg

Where are the cars?  It cost roughly $36,000 dollars per car parking space and it is not being used
(see http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3899.msg27637#msg27637 )

As a RAIL Back On Track member has commented*:

" This is the typical view of the park and ride during weekdays due to the what i would call a fair hike to the nearest bus stop @ hibiscus and now the same distance (opposite direction) to the new stop at clairvaux mckillop college.

Call people petty for not wanting to walk the distance to the bus stops but this photo paints a 1000 words on what people think of the walk.Could also be the 120 deviation through griffith uni that turns people off this park and ride. Who knows. "

*http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3899.msg105518#msg105518

A bus review is well overdue.  The parking mess also needs a review.  There are solutions, and simply wasting money on more acres of tar and cement is not the answer, is it?

Have a happy day and another week on the basket case that is the road and transport system in south-east Queensland.

Our public transport operators do a valiant job with the resources at their disposal.  Time the rhetoric was directed at the root cause of failure - mediocre Governments and their failing policy bureaucracies.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

===========================



Media release 31 March 2012 re-released 29 July 2012

SEQ: Quit insanity on park and ride woes!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers says the continued expansion of park and ride will make our traffic problems worse.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Governments of all levels are on a major reality avoidance mission - basic geometry suggests that when you have a limited space, whether that be a city or a station car park, if everyone tries to bring their cars into it, it is going to fill up quickly and then the space will run out. Basic economics - the law of demand and supply - suggest that if you give away something in demand for free, there will be excess demand for it and queues will form and it will be exhausted rapidly unless a charge is levied (1, 2, 3)."

"That's why we keep expanding park and ride, at a cost of around $30 000 to $40 000 per car space, billed straight to the taxpayer, the spaces keep filling up, cars enticed by the freebies spill over into suburban streets and the cycle starts all over again. That's a lot of money to spend that could be spent on decent public transport services rather than car storage space. You would have to spend approximately $40 million to fill up ONE 1000-person capacity Queensland Rail train using park and ride. Efficient? Good expenditure of cash? We didn't think so either!"

"A definition of insanity is 'doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.' This is the present car-parking paradigm, insanity."

"Let's face it. There is never going to be a solution until governments accept that park and ride is the highest cost, lowest capacity solution and that frequent, Toronto-style feeder buses are put on, connecting all-day train frequencies are boosted, and parking charges are levied. Perth, Western Australia has no issue charging $2 for car parks at high demand locations - you can even pay with their version of our GoCard (4). In Toronto, Canada, 98% of buses interchange with the subway system, using the buses to fill up the train system. Buses are brought right underneath or next to the station on dedicated bus ramps (5)."

"We understand that governments are reluctant to be seen to be introducing parking charges because it may offend some or look bad. Problem is, with the car park chaos and cars blocking residential streets and households and people being fined, they're looking bad anyway. Concession holders can be given a reduced rate (50% or 80% discount) to meet social welfare and equity objectives."

The solution is very simple:

1. Accept that park and ride is the highest cost, lowest capacity solution.

2. Put more feeder buses on and connecting train frequency all day.

3. Bite the bullet and charge for parking.

"Parking charges will raise money which can then be spent on improving cycling, walking and bus access to stations."

"It is time to quit the insanity on park and ride!"

References:

Supply and demand

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_price_system
3. http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp#axzz1qY1mJjSc

TransPerth car parking

4. http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/UsingTransperth/CarParking.aspx

TTC bus connection

5.

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[STB]

Isn't the park and ride more focused on route 186 commuters than the 120?

[SurfRail]

Isn't the park and ride more focused on route 186 commuters than the 120?

In the circumstances I'm not sure it matters...

[ozbob]

MEDIA RELEASE: http://translink.com.au/about-translink/reporting-and-publications/media-releases/release/314
New Klumpp Road park 'n' ride opens
Friday 6 May 2011

Mount Gravatt commuters can now use 200 new car parking spaces at the new $6.7 million Klumpp Road park 'n' ride, near the Hibiscus Sports Complex.

State Member for Mansfield Phil Reeves today officially opened the new park 'n' ride on behalf of Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk.

Mr Reeves said the park 'n' ride would make it easier for Mt Gravatt and Mansfield commuters to park their cars and complete their journey to the city on bus.

"The Klumpp Road park 'n' ride improves access to public transport for commuters and provides parking for 200 cars, including disabled parking bays and direct pedestrian and bicycle access and bicycle racks," Mr Reeves said.

"The new traffic lights are timed with the Timor Street traffic lights to provide safe and improved access to the facility for walkers and cyclists.

"The Queensland Government is committed to making public transport the easy choice for commuters, by making it more accessible and convenient and the Klumpp Road park 'n' ride facility will provide more incentive for local residents to use public transport.

"Many people live within walking distance of the public transport network, but for those who have to drive or ride to catch a bus, this new facility will give them more convenient and safe access to regular bus services."

Minister Palaszczuk said TransLink closely monitored the demand for public transport and related infrastructure to ensure commuters are getting the services they need.

"Mt Gravatt is a rapidly developing area, so this park 'n' ride will help to address the growing demand for public transport facilities," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"We're delivering more than 1300 new park 'n' ride spaces for public transport users over the next three years through the TransLink Station Upgrade Program.

"The park 'n' ride at Upper Mt Gravatt and many others like it throughout the TransLink network are helping to change commuter behaviour by making it easier and more attractive to make public transport the first choice," Ms Palaszczuk said.

For more information on public transport, visit translink.com.au or phone 13 12 30, anytime.

Queenslander!

[ozbob]

http://translink.com.au/about-translink/what-we-do/infrastructure-projects/klumpp-road-park-n-ride

Klumpp Road park 'n' ride now open!
Construction is now complete on the new Klumpp Road park 'n' ride and the facility is open for business.

We appreciate the patience and cooperation demonstrated by local residents throughout construction.

The Klumpp Road park 'n' ride provides:

•parking for nearly 200 cars, including 3 disabled parking bays
•new traffic lights timed with the Timor Street traffic lights to provide safe access
•better access for walkers and cyclists (there's even bicycle storage)
•landscaping using drought resistant plants
•a safe parking area with security cameras and lighting.
This means people can safely park their cars and transfer to bus services to complete their journey. This encourages more people to use public transport for most of their journey.


Any changes to current services?
In early 2011, an extra 10 services (five morning and five afternoon) were introduced each weekday on route 186 between Wishart and the city.

Routes 120, 125 and 186 will service the park 'n' ride as follows:

•Route 120 (Garden City to Brisbane City) operates at least every 30 minutes during the day, Monday to Saturday, and hourly in the evening and on Sunday.
•Route 125 (Garden City to Brisbane City) operates at least every 30 minutes during the day, Monday to Saturday, and hourly in the evening and on Sunday.
•Route 186 (Wishart to Brisbane City) operates approximately every 10 minutes in morning and afternoon peak times, providing customers with a fast and frequent service to Brisbane City, via the busway.

[WTN]

  indeed! A park n ride with indirect buses running most of the time?! I think it was built for the 186. The other services are relatively indirect to the CBD. I don't see why would anyone use this park n ride to go anywhere other than the CBD.

Other factors could've influenced the popularity. It's only a few hundred metres to the nearest bus stops, but the perceived distance due to having to cross busy Klumpp Rd, or mere laziness, could've had an effect. The close proximity to Garden City, with its own park n ride and more services, could be another reason.

[achiruel]

I don't see why would anyone use this park n ride to go anywhere other than the CBD.

Griffith Uni? It's reasonably direct on the 120. Although I admit I have no idea as to how much parking/cost of parking available on site there.

[STB]

I don't see why would anyone use this park n ride to go anywhere other than the CBD.

Griffith Uni? It's reasonably direct on the 120. Although I admit I have no idea as to how much parking/cost of parking available on site there.

See this link for parking at Griffith University for students and staff.  http://www.griffith.edu.au/parking/staff-students

[somebody]

So they charge, but its not worth thinking about.

[nathandavid88]

indeed! A park n ride with indirect buses running most of the time?! I think it was built for the 186. The other services are relatively indirect to the CBD. I don't see why would anyone use this park n ride to go anywhere other than the CBD.

Other factors could've influenced the popularity. It's only a few hundred metres to the nearest bus stops, but the perceived distance due to having to cross busy Klumpp Rd, or mere laziness, could've had an effect. The close proximity to Garden City, with its own park n ride and more services, could be another reason.

The parking situation isn't much better for the Garden City Bus Station. While there is a small amount of parking relatively close to the station which becomes exhausted quickly, the majority of it is on Kessels Road on the other side of the M1, which is a fair bit of a hike itself. The extra services would be what would do it, I would imagine. Klumpp Road seems to have the same issue I forsee the Slacks Creek Park n' Ride having – a selection of indirect or low frequency services that just don't go where people using the park n ride would want them to go.

[SurfRail]

Klumpp Road seems to have the same issue I forsee the Slacks Creek Park n' Ride having – a selection of indirect or low frequency services that just don't go where people using the park n ride would want them to go.

I expect they will have to introduce a new service specifically for the new park'n'ride.  The only service which appears to actually go past it are the 552, 553, 560 and 562 local services and the 556 Griffith Uni inter-campus bus.

As it stands, the only new bus stop being constructed appears to be the stop which would be used by the local routes heading to the Hyperdome - the design indicates there is a bus bay on the other side of the road but there is no indication a new stop forms part of the project scope.  The 556 would need to have new stops constructed on either side of Loganlea Rd to be of any use, or otherwise deviate into Nujooloo Road and do a u-turn.

A less popular and useful option would be to run the 566, 569 and 571 into here by deviating off the motorway. 

Deviating the 555 makes no sense to me, so hopefully that is avoided.

[somebody]

So as of monday the new stops will be implemented yet for some reason they refuse/cannot put a stop near the park and ride.

<image>

Taken Monday, ‎2 ‎July ‎2012, ‏‎10:42:44 AM

This is the typical view of the park and ride during weekdays due to the what i would call a fair hike to the nearest bus stop @ hibiscus and now the same distance (opposite direction) to the new stop at clairvaux mckillop college.

Call people petty for not wanting to walk the distance to the bus stops but this photo paints a 1000 words on what people think of the walk.Could also be the 120 deviation through griffith uni that turns people off this park and ride.Who knows.

Surely we should have a photo after the stops are implemented!

Additional stops for routes 120, 125, & 186
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Last updated: 2.43pm Monday 23 July 2012

From Monday 30 July, we're upgrading the bus stops outside Dittmer Park on Klumpp Road.

Routes 120, 125 and 186 will observe these stops.

Great news if you're heading to Griffith University or Garden City!

There will be no timetable changes for these services.

With the high frequency route 120, just turn up and go! The 120 runs every 10 minutes in peak and every 15 minutes off peak.

Existing stops

Additional stops:

    Clairvaux-Mackillop School, Klumpp Road
    Klumpp-Dawson - 42

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1341895590

Who knows, maybe the stops will help some.

[nathandavid88]

Klumpp Road seems to have the same issue I forsee the Slacks Creek Park n' Ride having – a selection of indirect or low frequency services that just don't go where people using the park n ride would want them to go.

I expect they will have to introduce a new service specifically for the new park'n'ride.  The only service which appears to actually go past it are the 552, 553, 560 and 562 local services and the 556 Griffith Uni inter-campus bus.

As it stands, the only new bus stop being constructed appears to be the stop which would be used by the local routes heading to the Hyperdome - the design indicates there is a bus bay on the other side of the road but there is no indication a new stop forms part of the project scope.  The 556 would need to have new stops constructed on either side of Loganlea Rd to be of any use, or otherwise deviate into Nujooloo Road and do a u-turn.

A less popular and useful option would be to run the 566, 569 and 571 into here by deviating off the motorway. 

Deviating the 555 makes no sense to me, so hopefully that is avoided.

You're partially correct. The only three routes that directly go past the new stops are the 553, 560 and 562. The 552 doesn't, it goes up Shailer Road and across the Loganlea Overpass, so it would have to divert along Nujooloo and u-turn back like the 556 would. I have a feeling that this may be what happens, as part of the project is that whopping great roundabout which really isn't needed except for buses to turn around, and I don't see a Loganlea Road stop really being possible anywhere close enough to the park n ride to incorporate it.

The artist's impression I don't think is a finished image – I'd be very surprised if the bus bay on the opposite side of the road, which has a large concreted area on the foot path and is large enough to accommodate two buses, doesn't have at least a couple of standard issue TL shelters placed there. There will also be a pedestrian crossing across Nujooloo Road as well. A park n ride that goes only one way would be a little bit stupid really.

As for deviating a city route bus here, that would be possible as a lot of the city buses run at least part way along this route when the highway is clogged, but I don't think it should be done outside of peak (a 560 to Loganholme or Loganlea, both taking no longer than 5-10 minutes max, would more than suffice). If they choose to service it during peak, it should probably be the 555s that services the stop, because the 566, 569 and 571 don't even stop at Springwood.

Sorry to go off on a tangent.

[ozbob]

Kumpp Road Park n' Ride 19th June 2012



http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.55224,153.074749&z=19&t=h&nmd=20120619

[somebody]

Kumpp Road Park n' Ride 19th June 2012



http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.55224,153.074749&z=19&t=h&nmd=20120619

We don't know what time that is taken.  Perhaps shadows infer around 10-11am.  It's also before the service changes to 120, 125 & 186 from 30/7.  Be more relevant to have up to date info.

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail Quest click here!

Klumpp Rd Park 'n' Ride sits idle, too far for commuters

Klumpp Rd Park 'n' Ride sits idle, too far for commuters

    by: Angela Ranke, Southern Star
    From: Quest Newspapers
    August 09, 2012 12:00AM

THIS is the picture that sums up a typical weekday at the Klumpp Road park-and-ride at Upper MtGravatt.

The photo, taken by a southside commuter and uploaded to the Rail Back on Track website, left many wondering where all the cars were.



Translink built the facility in 2010 at a cost of $6.7million or $33,500 per car park to cater for up to 200 car spaces.
But commuters say the park-and-ride is rarely full and regularly sits empty during peak periods.

"(This is) due to what I would call a fair hike to the nearest bus stop at Hibiscus and now the same distance (opposite direction) to the new stop at Clairvaux MacKillop College,'' one member on the Rail Back on Track forum wrote.

'Call people petty for not wanting to walk the distance to the bus stops but this photo paints a 1000 words on what people think of the walk.

"It could also be the 120 deviation through Griffith Uni that turns people off this park and ride.''

Rail Back on Track's Robert Dow said the park-and-ride was a waste of taxpayers' money and an urgent bus review was needed.

"They need to look at the position of bus stops relative to the park-and-ride, perhaps look at the frequency of buses and do some local education to make people aware it is there,'' he said.

A Translink spokesman said services to Klumpp Rd would be reviewed as part of the Newman Government's review of southeast Queensland's bus network.