Double the trains to Ferny Grove

[SurfRail]

Have we heard anything from official sources about how they are going?

And weren't there some rumours of extensions further south of Park Road on a trial basis?

[colinw]

And weren't there some rumours of extensions further south of Park Road on a trial basis?

Can't see that happening any time soon with the ex-LNP member for Yeerongpilly now airing his anti Newman ads.

And yes, I think the retards running this state are that corrupt & vindictive.

[ozbob]

I have heard that the loadings are going well on the FG ...

[O_128]

I have friends that live on the ferny grove line and they are loving the increased frequency.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/ferny-grove-line-10-months-post.html
How is the Ferny Grove Line fairing more than 10 months post duplication?
BrizCommuter takes a look.

[Golliwog]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/ferny-grove-line-10-months-post.html
How is the Ferny Grove Line fairing more than 10 months post duplication?
BrizCommuter takes a look.

I think part of the problem with the unbalanced loading on the off peak services is as you say, that not everyone is aware of it. With the BUZ services, they don't do much advertising now because IIRC, when they first did it, BCC spruiked it pretty well (I think, I was only 13 when they started so didn't pay much attention to transport related stuff) but either way, the front of every BUZ bus says it's a BUZ and either through that initial advertising or ongoing understanding, most people know what the basic service standard for a BUZ route is.

Also, with regards to places to advertise, the billboard at Gaythorne is good, but what about the new (ish) electronic one directly adjacent to the Samford/Wardell St intersection. Even in the off peak you get a bit of congestion there, so a fairly captive audience, so to speak.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Back when I used to live in Brisbane they used to promote the early buz services via newsletters from both the BCC Lord Mayor's edition which was quartley or something at the time, from the local region editions (north, south, east, west) which were monthly/every two months along with the local ward newsletters which varied and ads published in the free local newspapers. Pretty sure I also saw a small blurb about them on some of my rate bills aswell and the Chermside Library having advertising for it aswell. Some things BT/BCC do seems odd at times but you really have to give them kudos on their marketing for the early promoting of buz services.

[Golliwog]

Yeah, though it's something I think QR knows they need to work on. The problem for them though is unlike the council they don't have rates and other newsletters that to get that blanket coverage. They can (and do) do news paper ads, but not everyone reads the local papers, or the CM for that matter either.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Personally I think it should be Translink that should step it up a notch rather than the operator (same applies across the bus, rail and ferry network). Get the ads on busways. Get them on buses. Get them on trains. Get them at station. Get them in the local newspaper. Get them on billboards. Get them in mailboxes. Promote the whole network rather than a specific mode. If they want to target a specific mode than focus on those particular areas using the same method.

[longboi]

I think there is a degree of caution exercised considering it is a two year trial. If there was a massive marketing campaign and funding is pulled then QR/TL are then left to do damage control over "cuts to services".

If the trial is successful, I'm sure there will be a much more prominent marketing campaign associated with that.

[ozbob]

Strange logic ...  Darra to Northgate 15 minutes around the clock essentially, didn't and don't promote that either and that is no trial ...

Bang!  to both feet .... 

[longboi]

Considering the day time loadings those corridors get already, I think the frequency is already well established among the community.

[ozbob]

Considering the day time loadings those corridors get already, I think the frequency is already well established among the community.

But should have been properly promoted and it wasn't.  It has been a lot of effort by us and others using local newspapers and the like that has really helped.

Interesting, same issue in Melbourne, a lot of folks wondering why the 10 minute frequency on major lines has not been advertised well either ..

[longboi]

Considering the day time loadings those corridors get already, I think the frequency is already well established among the community.

But should have been properly promoted and it wasn't.  It has been a lot of effort by us and others using local newspapers and the like that has really helped.

Interesting, same issue in Melbourne, a lot of folks wondering why the 10 minute frequency on major lines has not been advertised well either ..

No advertising for the fact that bus routes such as 390 and 204 have 15-minute daytime frequencies. How many marketing campaigns can you have? Some sort of indication on a high-frequency network map would be just as - if not more - effective.

[ozbob]

Of course, we have been waiting for years ...

Fact remains, they do not promote well at all ...  in case of rail where there are significant frequency gains this needs to be pushed, there is a public expectation that frequency is poor.  It was interesting when I travelled to Ferny Grove last, one guy even asked why the train was running early.  Explained there were trains every 15 minutes between the peaks ..

[SurfRail]

Considering the day time loadings those corridors get already, I think the frequency is already well established among the community.

But should have been properly promoted and it wasn't.  It has been a lot of effort by us and others using local newspapers and the like that has really helped.

Interesting, same issue in Melbourne, a lot of folks wondering why the 10 minute frequency on major lines has not been advertised well either ..

No advertising for the fact that bus routes such as 390 and 204 have 15-minute daytime frequencies. How many marketing campaigns can you have? Some sort of indication on a high-frequency network map would be just as - if not more - effective.

Kindly point us to this "high-frequency network map".

[Golliwog]

Strange logic ...  Darra to Northgate 15 minutes around the clock essentially, didn't and don't promote that either and that is no trial ...

Bang!  to both feet .... 

Didn't they stuff up the day time 15 minute frequency during the day when they implemented it to FG though? There's still 4tph, but the Shorncliffe ones had their times changed slightly or something I think.

[BrizCommuter]

Considering the day time loadings those corridors get already, I think the frequency is already well established among the community.

Interestingly, a few weeks back BrizCommuter travelled from FG to Indro and back mid morning (travelling on the additional FG services in both directions). The loadings were surprisingly higher on the FG Line than the Ipswich/Richlands Line.

Strange logic ...  Darra to Northgate 15 minutes around the clock essentially, didn't and don't promote that either and that is no trial ...

Bang!  to both feet .... 

Didn't they stuff up the day time 15 minute frequency during the day when they implemented it to FG though? There's still 4tph, but the Shorncliffe ones had their times changed slightly or something I think.

Yep, FG got 15 minute, and Northgate's 15 minute was stuffed up. Only in QLD!

Of course stage 2 will fix this, but when?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Kindly point us to this "high-frequency network map".

Here you go.










































































Hahaha. Its sad that the only maps translink have are useless lines http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/maps/network/120618-buz.pdf
The BCC maps are still just as useless but atleast they have the stop names and include the railway line as a rough guide http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/downloads/traffic_transport/public_transport/buz_route_map_july_2012.pdf

Still along way to go before any 'decent' labes are used to describe their maps. Still along way to go before you can even call them maps.

[longboi]

Considering the day time loadings those corridors get already, I think the frequency is already well established among the community.

But should have been properly promoted and it wasn't.  It has been a lot of effort by us and others using local newspapers and the like that has really helped.

Interesting, same issue in Melbourne, a lot of folks wondering why the 10 minute frequency on major lines has not been advertised well either ..

No advertising for the fact that bus routes such as 390 and 204 have 15-minute daytime frequencies. How many marketing campaigns can you have? Some sort of indication on a high-frequency network map would be just as - if not more - effective.

Kindly point us to this "high-frequency network map".

There isn't one. I never said there was  :conf Although someone on here did mention that one is being developed.

People don't read signage, even when a leaflet is shoved in their face. They do, however, look at maps and timetables (Whether they can comprehend them is another issue).

[longboi]

Interestingly, a few weeks back BrizCommuter travelled from FG to Indro and back mid morning (travelling on the additional FG services in both directions). The loadings were surprisingly higher on the FG Line than the Ipswich/Richlands Line.

It does seem to have picked up well without a large-scale advertising campaign. It's my local line and once you hit Newmarket it really does begin to fill up. I can't say I've travelled on the Inner Western line during the day for approximately a year or so but I did use it semi-regularly between 2008-2010 and it would be guaranteed standing room only Roma St - Indooroopilly.

[ozbob]

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2013/10/11/175000-more-trips-for-frequent-ferny-grove-trains

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson
Friday, October 11, 2013

175,000 more trips for frequent Ferny Grove trains

Ferny Grove line passengers are voting for the Newman Government's trial of 15 minute off-peak services with their feet.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson and Member for Ferny Grove Dale Shuttleworth said there were 175,000 additional trips taken on the line since the trial started a year ago.

"More than two-thirds of those additional trips were taken off-peak which shows that our commitment to deliver more frequent train services is working," Mr Emerson said.

"The improved frequency means passengers on the Ferny Grove line can simply turn up and go with a train arriving every 15 minutes during the weekday off-peak period.

"It's encouraging to see people embrace this policy."

The $18 million trial to double the day-time off-peak services on the Ferny Grove line began on October 8, 2012.

Member for Ferny Grove Dale Shuttleworth said the commitment to extra services was taking cars off the road.

"The additional services are a real incentive for people to use public transport, leave their car at home and take the train to and from the city," Mr Shuttleworth said.

"The trial of extra services on the Ferny Grove line still has another year to run and I'd encourage even more people to get on-board."

The increase in services was an important LNP promise to end Labor's waste and improve the affordability, frequency and reliability of train services.

The reliability of peak train services recently hit a decade high of 96 per cent after falling to 86 per cent in the final months under Labor.

============

See --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9080.msg133424#msg133424

[petey3801]

Just by observational reporting on trains I have worked, they're getting reasonable patronage. Started off with normal pax on the old services, with very few on the 15min services, but has evened out quite well with good pax numbers on all trains in general.

[aldonius]

As a FGer, agree completely with Petey's observations.

We could do better of course, but for AM weekday inbound we're doing respectably well. I'd guess that up until 11:00, the back half of the train always has 50% of seats filled by the time it gets to Bowen Hills. Front (city) end is less loaded, partly due to FG and Mitchelton platform entrance locations.

Hard to tell just how much overall growth, of course...

[Gazza]

Seems like an easy way to bump the patronage further would be to just run a 15 min frequency bus from Albany creek and dump people into the trains at Mitchelton.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Seems like an easy way to bump the patronage further would be to just run a 15 min frequency bus from Albany creek and dump people into the trains at Mitchelton.

Don't be silly now. That just flies in the face of logic as we all know locals want a bus from the front door to the city via Toowoomba

Thanks guys

If you are half filling a train, you are well on the way to being sucessful and you would assume sucess will only improve with more lines converted to 15min.

Some lines will be better when it comes to 15 min frequencies while others won't see a big impact. Take the Caboolture line where the current 'feeder' bus network currently operates at an hourly frequency (and that includes peak hour) or services stop at 5-7pm. The areas surrounding stations also has an impact depending on the time of day. All stations on the Caboolture line are lit up brighter than Suncorp Stadium but walk outside the station and suddenly you'll be lucky to find a street light near by. And many of these areas funnel into unlit parks/shared pathways/single pathway corridors where grubs like to hang out at night. Then you have stations like Narangba where there is big patronage but the station is on the outskirts of town and you have to remember Narangba is far from flat.

If the Caboolture line really wants to be useful with 15 min frequencies the supporting bus network needs a really big shakeup to help support it - it doesn't take a genius to figure out why parking at Zillmere, Carseldine, Bald Hills, Strathpine, Bray Park, Lawnton (up to 4 separate car parks now), Petrie, Dakabin, Narangba, Burpengary, Morayfield and Caboolture all have issues and recent expansions.

[James]

Seems like an easy way to bump the patronage further would be to just run a 15 min frequency bus from Albany creek and dump people into the trains at Mitchelton.

And we all know where that idea came up now didn't we...

That type of patronage is decent given the conditions the upgrade were set in are under:
1. Some of the world's highest PT fares
2. Some of Australia's worst feeder buses (hourly on weekdays and 2-hourly on weekends, dying at 4pm)
3. Frequency which dies at 7pm and doesn't exist on weekends.
4. A railway line which directly competes with buses which are just as frequent (Mitchelton - Alderley with the 390, Alderley with 345, Windsor with 333/340).
5. Only other 15 minute frequency running from Bowen Hills to Darra off-peak (prior to January 20th).

For patronage to come this far is amazing given how crap the network is. If we cut routes like the 390 (a fully duplicated bus route) and focused on getting proper feeders in the Mitchelton/Ferny Grove area and a feeder running from Albany Creek/Eatons Hill area into Mitchelton/Enoggera, patronage would increase significantly.

[techblitz]

translink review had it pretty much on the ball with albany creek services. Couldnt really fault it. Would have been minimal connection penalities to mitchelton at peak.
357 am peak currently takes 62 mins..359 peak...75mins.......envisaged connection time for acreek to city via mitchleton would have been about 66 mins (5min transfer penalty)

[HappyTrainGuy]

translink review had it pretty much on the ball with albany creek services. Couldnt really fault it. Would have been minimal connection penalities to mitchelton at peak.
357 am peak currently takes 62 mins..359 peak...75mins.......envisaged connection time for acreek to city via mitchleton would have been about 66 mins (5min transfer penalty)

EH is just north of Albany Creek but if you could make the Strathpine connection with the Strathpine or Zillmere/Carseldine express trains it was faster Roma Street to Strathpine via train transferring onto a 338 to Chermside via Eatons Hill/Albany Creek (Same for the old 340 pre buz/busway when it was faster to express train it to Carseldine and then catch the inbound services that left a couple minutes after the train did to Aspley. IIRC the cross was usually in the Aspley Hotel area. Really shows the gains made with the 100kph running Northgate-Bald Hills and would be interesting to know if its still the same today). If it was delayed in peak arvo traffic like it normally was the 338 would usually be going down the hill (if heavily delayed they'd cross at the fire station) as the same outbound service was going up the hill. Just goes to show how slow the buses were in traffic along that basket case of a road during peak and how great a NWTC would be with a feeder network

[#Metro]

MOAR ROCKETS!

Eatons Hill Rocket - CBD - Alice St, direct from Eatons Hill to CBD every 10 minutes in peak hour, not stopping anywhere once leaving Eatons Hill

Albany Creek Rocket - CBD - Alice St, direct from Albany Ck to CBD every 10 minutes in peak hour, not stopping anywhere once leaving Albany Creek

Ferny Grove Line Rail Replacement Rockets - Rockets fired from every train station carpark on the Ferny Grove line DIRECT EXPRESS to the CBD during peak hour, not stopping anywhere until reaching the CBD.

 

[HappyTrainGuy]

BUSWAY BUSWAY BUSWAY BUSWAY

[BrizCommuter]

translink review had it pretty much on the ball with albany creek services. Couldnt really fault it. Would have been minimal connection penalities to mitchelton at peak.
357 am peak currently takes 62 mins..359 peak...75mins.......envisaged connection time for acreek to city via mitchleton would have been about 66 mins (5min transfer penalty)

EH is just north of Albany Creek but if you could make the Strathpine connection with the Strathpine or Zillmere/Carseldine express trains it was faster Roma Street to Strathpine via train transferring onto a 338 to Chermside via Eatons Hill/Albany Creek (Same for the old 340 pre buz/busway when it was faster to express train it to Carseldine and then catch the inbound services that left a couple minutes after the train did to Aspley. IIRC the cross was usually in the Aspley Hotel area. Really shows the gains made with the 100kph running Northgate-Bald Hills and would be interesting to know if its still the same today). If it was delayed in peak arvo traffic like it normally was the 338 would usually be going down the hill (if heavily delayed they'd cross at the fire station) as the same outbound service was going up the hill. Just goes to show how slow the buses were in traffic along that basket case of a road during peak and how great a NWTC would be with a feeder network

I would expect that rail along the NWTC with a decent timetable would be just as popular as the Ferny Grove Line. It serves a
huge potential catchment.

[Arnz]

MOAR ROCKETS!

Eatons Hill Rocket - CBD - Alice St, direct from Eatons Hill to CBD every 10 minutes in peak hour, not stopping anywhere once leaving Eatons Hill

Albany Creek Rocket - CBD - Alice St, direct from Albany Ck to CBD every 10 minutes in peak hour, not stopping anywhere once leaving Albany Creek

Ferny Grove Line Rail Replacement Rockets - Rockets fired from every train station carpark on the Ferny Grove line DIRECT EXPRESS to the CBD during peak hour, not stopping anywhere until reaching the CBD.

 

Make them Maglev Buses while you're at it. 

[James]

MOAR ROCKETS!

Eatons Hill Rocket - CBD - Alice St, direct from Eatons Hill to CBD every 10 minutes in peak hour, not stopping anywhere once leaving Eatons Hill

Albany Creek Rocket - CBD - Alice St, direct from Albany Ck to CBD every 10 minutes in peak hour, not stopping anywhere once leaving Albany Creek

Ferny Grove Line Rail Replacement Rockets - Rockets fired from every train station carpark on the Ferny Grove line DIRECT EXPRESS to the CBD during peak hour, not stopping anywhere until reaching the CBD.

 

I am all for these rockets, just as long as they are hourly. The only thing increasing frequency does is split passengers across multiple services, when they can much easily all be placed on the one hourly bus. It is also important that the bus stops running at 6pm, and instead is replaced by a City - Ferny Grove via Strathpine, Indooroopilly and Helensvale bus to ensure suitable coverage for granny in case she comes home from bingo late.