ALP: Universal two journey cap go card policy announcement

[somebody]

There is no problem with journey capping (simple counting), the problem is with algorithms to do true daily capping based on actual zones travelled.  Same with doing a periodical weekly monthly.  That is why we have ended up with the journey caps ...

Thank you for clearing that up.

[somebody]

We had the poll on what is important (after CRR) a while ago: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6291.0

Off peak service won by a landslide.  We need to hammer this point more I think.

[O_128]

Seems like the ALP will promise anything except frequency upgrades 

[Jonno]

The LNP release is not correct.  Although the price of a trip goes up by 15% the two trip cap means on average the % increase is diluted.

[Andrew]

20 March 2012

A new Labor government plans to introduce a cost-busting fare initiative across South East Queensland's public transport network with unlimited free trips for all go Card commuters after just two journeys in any given day.

"This would mean significant savings for commuters who made frequent use of bus, train and ferry travel across the south east," she said.

Wrong! Do the math Anna.

The two-and-free initiative is currently available to holders of the Seniors Card +go, a senior go card or a green pensioner concession go card.

"But it will be extended to all commuters under a new Labor government," Ms Bligh said.

"This represents some of the best value for money in public transport in the nation, building upon our successful go Card.

What a big load of twaddle that is.  As Ozbob mentioned, it'll spread the journeys out to 5 days.  This will actually be making it more expensive.

To compare my dad's commute from Salisbury to the northern end of the Valley each day using current fares:
Straight return trips to work each day:
10 x 3 zone peak Go Card fare = 10 x $4.24 = $42.40

What dad currently does to gain the 10 journeys then free benefit
Monday:
Home to Work: $4.24
5 x Journey Office to Valley on bus in Off Peak =  5 x $2.44 = $12.20
Work to Home: $4.24
(Total Cost for Monday  = $20.68)
Tuesday:
Home to Work: $4.24
2 x Journeys Office to Valley on bus in Off Peak = 2 x $2.44 = $4.88
(Total Cost for Tuesday = $9.12)

Total 10 Journey Cost = Monday + Tuesday = $20.68 + $9.12 = $29.80

Under the proposed ALP scheme:
Each weekday:
Home to Work: $4.24
Office to Valley on bus in Off Peak: $2.44
(Total Cost per day = $6.68)
Total 10 Journey Cost = 5 x $6.68 = $33.40
Increase by approx 12% of current cost

Welcome to the world of how to annouce a price rise without actually announcing a price rise!!!!

[SurfRail]

Unless I've missed something, it is not clear whether the 10 journey then free thing would be continuing.

Purely academic question anyway!

[Andrew]

Well I think it would be "paid journeys".  I can't see them letting the "free journeys" count towards your weekly 10.  In the example of my dad in my post above, if your free journey's count towards the 10, then his cost would be brought down to just $13.36!  That is less than half what he currently pays under the existing system.  It would cost them a fortune though would be great for boosting patronage.

[Golliwog]

I do see your point there Andrew, but in a way it does make it a more 'legitimate' cap. Making it cheap for those who do actually need to make multiple journeys in the one day, while also closing off (to some extent) the loophole that people use to get to their 10 journeys on the 1st or second day. I'm not saying people doing similar to what you've explained your father doing are doing anything wrong, just that they do need to balance their operating costs against cutting travel costs for passengers.

[Andrew]

The thing I find laughable though is translink were in the media a couple of months ago spruiking how good it was people were saving money by doing the exact thing my dad is doing.  It seems now they've backflipped.  I'm not against them introducing the scheme but what I strongly object to is them claiming it'll save regular travellers money when in fact it won't.  The proposed scheme by the ALP will make it great for infrequent travellers or tourists who want to go travelling around Brisbane.

[achiruel]

I don't like this idea.  Potential for massive farebox losses and subsidies for extreme long distance e.g. commuters from Nambour taking a 1-zone bus trip at lunch time end up paying far less.  Should be designed so that the 2 most expensive fares of the day are paid for, if they still want to take their 1-zone bus trip at lunch it's free.

Added:

There is no problem with journey capping (simple counting), the problem is with algorithms to do true daily capping based on actual zones travelled.  Same with doing a periodical weekly monthly.  That is why we have ended up with the journey caps ...

It really isn't that difficult.  If they can't do it, I suggest Cubic needs to employ some better programmers.

[ozbob]

It really isn't that difficult.  If they can't do it, I suggest Cubic needs to employ some better programmers.

Ummmm,  yes it is when you don't purchase the full software ....

Would take 12 months (at least) and more significant expenditure I have been reliably informed ...

The system is half baked, why do you think we have these bizarre fare structures based on zone unlimited (one or 23 and anything in between) journey capping?

Believe, me it is half baked.  Nothing to do with Cubic, London Oyster card is the same pedigree as Go and it has the full setup ...

[Fares_Fair]

I don't like this idea.  Potential for massive farebox losses and subsidies for extreme long distance e.g. commuters from Nambour taking a 1-zone bus trip at lunch time end up paying far less.  Should be designed so that the 2 most expensive fares of the day are paid for, if they still want to take their 1-zone bus trip at lunch it's free.

Added:

There is no problem with journey capping (simple counting), the problem is with algorithms to do true daily capping based on actual zones travelled.  Same with doing a periodical weekly monthly.  That is why we have ended up with the journey caps ...

It really isn't that difficult.  If they can't do it, I suggest Cubic needs to employ some better programmers.

It's all hypothetical really, given the reported poll results - Saturday is a fait accompli.
Yet polls have been proven wrong in the past.
It'll be interesting to see how accurate or otherwise they have become.

[#Metro]

I have to say I am super suspicious and cynical

What they have done is cannabalise future improvements to cut the price and discount rotten apples which will prolong the network's rotten apple status for more years to come.

This proposal is dressed up as "Improvement to PT", I disagree, it is a future service cut/deferment dressed up in disguise!

Give me frequency!

[Fares_Fair]

I have to say I am super suspicious and cynical

What they have done is cannabalise future improvements to cut the price and discount rotten apples which will prolong the network's rotten apple status for more years to come.

Give me frequency!

just call us Sunny Coaster's strudel ...

[achiruel]

It really isn't that difficult.  If they can't do it, I suggest Cubic needs to employ some better programmers.

Ummmm,  yes it is when you don't purchase the full software ....

Would take 12 months (at least) and more significant expenditure I have been reliably informed ...

The system is half baked, why do you think we have these bizarre fare structures based on zone unlimited (one or 23 and anything in between) journey capping?

Believe, me it is half baked.  Nothing to do with Cubic, London Oyster card is the same pedigree as Go and it has the full setup ...

So what you're saying is Qld Govt/Translink went for the feature-limited demo version? What a surprise! 

[ozbob]

It really isn't that difficult.  If they can't do it, I suggest Cubic needs to employ some better programmers.

Ummmm,  yes it is when you don't purchase the full software ....

Would take 12 months (at least) and more significant expenditure I have been reliably informed ...

The system is half baked, why do you think we have these bizarre fare structures based on zone unlimited (one or 23 and anything in between) journey capping?

Believe, me it is half baked.  Nothing to do with Cubic, London Oyster card is the same pedigree as Go and it has the full setup ...

So what you're saying is Qld Govt/Translink went for the feature-limited demo version? What a surprise! 

[colinw]

I don't think this is a genuine policy at all. On the surface, it is a blatant attempt at last minute pork barreling which will never actually be implemented.

But, it may actually be about post-election politics from opposition.

The ALP know they won't get to implement it, but the beauty of it is that it wedges the LNP once they form Government as they are then exposed to the accusation that they kept PT more expensive than it would have been under the ALP. On the other hand, if the LNP DO implement a matching proposal it will reduce TransLink's income stream and place more pressure on the system, thereby opening them up to accusation of starving the system of revenue.

The most sensible thing for the LNP to do is play a completely dead bat to it - ignore it completely..

I can't believe we actually buy into some of this stuff.

[somebody]

Yawn. People that travel long distance are the winners once again 

How about they get off their butts and offer a better short journey trip for those that only use 1-2 zones for once.

I would have thought the reason for that is obvious.  There is a much higher proportion of conservative seats on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts, and the Gold Coast in particular is quite marginal.  Election on Saturday, remember...

I ascribe this one to incompetence rather than malice.

It's in Jarrett Walker's book that people focus on time savings for long distance commuters too much.  "This project will save 10 minutes off the journey to Nambour".  He argues that it is more important to look at the percentage.