Article: British man faces deportation over go card fare evasion

[somebody]

If the beeps do not work, or there is a freight train passing when one touches on (semi-regular occurrence at Palmwoods), how can one be sure of a correct touch ?
The light maybe there but when one is looking for the balance left it leaves uncertainty.

All you don't know is your balance so long as the light it working.  If you have auto top up I don't know why it would matter.  Or maybe I am missing something.  Could be annoying for those doing manual top ups, I suppose.

[ozbob]

If the beeps do not work, or there is a freight train passing when one touches on (semi-regular occurrence at Palmwoods), how can one be sure of a correct touch ?
The light maybe there but when one is looking for the balance left it leaves uncertainty.

All you don't know is your balance so long as the light it working.  If you have auto top up I don't know why it would matter.  Or maybe I am missing something.  Could be annoying for those doing manual top ups, I suppose.

Yes, you highlighted well Simon why the conditions of use need clarification as we have suggested.  Some folks will not know they have not touched on using such a compromised reader (glare can obliterate the colour flashes as well), but have auto-topup and/or credit which is prima facie of their intent to pay.  

[justanotheruser]

if this ever happens to me on a train then I simply go to the ticket machine and check. Of course unlike most people I leave plenty of time to spare at the station rather than aim to arrive a few seconds before departure.

Sounds good in theory, but not all platforms have easily accessible AVVMs and it may be in use with a long queue, or out of order.  In Melbourne they have these additional readers where one can quickly check card history without needed to use or tie up an AVVM.  And when there are great numbers of pax not possible.  I think the solution is to actually fix the equipment so that is reliable and easy to use.

yes i realise that. That is why i pointed out I have plenty of time. Generally I aim to arrive at a station minimum 10 minutes before my train. In peak this often means I end up catching an earlier train.

[dwb]

" world class " ...

To be fair, it is. Surely the same system has the same problems all around the world!

Yes I am being facetious.

[Fares_Fair]

if this ever happens to me on a train then I simply go to the ticket machine and check. Of course unlike most people I leave plenty of time to spare at the station rather than aim to arrive a few seconds before departure.

Sounds good in theory, but not all platforms have easily accessible AVVMs and it may be in use with a long queue, or out of order.  In Melbourne they have these additional readers where one can quickly check card history without needed to use or tie up an AVVM.  And when there are great numbers of pax not possible.  I think the solution is to actually fix the equipment so that is reliable and easy to use.

yes i realise that. That is why i pointed out I have plenty of time. Generally I aim to arrive at a station minimum 10 minutes before my train. In peak this often means I end up catching an earlier train.

Getting there 10 minutes earlier would still have been met with a foggy screen (probably even foggier).  
The upshot of it all, equipment not fit for use in exposed conditions cannot be supported.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[justanotheruser]

if this ever happens to me on a train then I simply go to the ticket machine and check. Of course unlike most people I leave plenty of time to spare at the station rather than aim to arrive a few seconds before departure.

Sounds good in theory, but not all platforms have easily accessible AVVMs and it may be in use with a long queue, or out of order.  In Melbourne they have these additional readers where one can quickly check card history without needed to use or tie up an AVVM.  And when there are great numbers of pax not possible.  I think the solution is to actually fix the equipment so that is reliable and easy to use.

yes i realise that. That is why i pointed out I have plenty of time. Generally I aim to arrive at a station minimum 10 minutes before my train. In peak this often means I end up catching an earlier train.

Getting there 10 minutes earlier would still have been met with a foggy screen (probably even foggier).  
The upshot of it all, equipment not fit for use in exposed conditions cannot be supported.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

This is true but the point I was making is that if there early enough it is possible to check if you have touched on or not.  I was not commenting on if the equipment is satisfactory (which it clearly isn't). So my comment should be taken in the context of a response to the claim that it is not possible to check if you have touched on untill it is too late.

[dwb]

This is partly why I think it is nice for some gates to be closed even while they're not manned as you know you've touched on correctly if the gate opens... one would assume anyway.

[Fares_Fair]

if this ever happens to me on a train then I simply go to the ticket machine and check. Of course unlike most people I leave plenty of time to spare at the station rather than aim to arrive a few seconds before departure.

Sounds good in theory, but not all platforms have easily accessible AVVMs and it may be in use with a long queue, or out of order.  In Melbourne they have these additional readers where one can quickly check card history without needed to use or tie up an AVVM.  And when there are great numbers of pax not possible.  I think the solution is to actually fix the equipment so that is reliable and easy to use.

yes i realise that. That is why i pointed out I have plenty of time. Generally I aim to arrive at a station minimum 10 minutes before my train. In peak this often means I end up catching an earlier train.

Getting there 10 minutes earlier would still have been met with a foggy screen (probably even foggier).  
The upshot of it all, equipment not fit for use in exposed conditions cannot be supported.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

This is true but the point I was making is that if there early enough it is possible to check if you have touched on or not.  I was not commenting on if the equipment is satisfactory (which it clearly isn't). So my comment should be taken in the context of a response to the claim that it is not possible to check if you have touched on untill it is too late.

I note your valid point, justanotheruser.
But it should not be incumbent upon us to have to doublecheck everything.
My situation was only discovered by chance a week after the event and the fact that this occurred troubled me.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Queensland Rail train fare evader ordered to pay $1625 after unsuccessful appeal

Queensland Rail train fare evader ordered to pay $1625 after unsuccessful appeal

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    February 16, 2012 12:00AM

A MAN accused of evading a $2.65 train fare is now facing a bill of $1625 after unsuccessfully appealing against the fine.

But Mark Littler, 31, who was facing deportation if he had a conviction recorded against him, will be able to remain in Australia after a Brisbane District Court judge agreed it was "overly harsh" to record a conviction. A magistrate had found Mr Littler guilty of getting on a train without a valid ticket in December 2009 and recorded a conviction against him.

He appealed against the ruling on the grounds his go card was in debit only because of fixed fares recorded in error by TransLink of which he was not aware.

Judge Michael Noud dismissed that appeal on the basis Mr Littler was "an unreliable witness" who had failed to provide "a reasonable excuse" for not having a valid ticket.

He awarded costs in favour of Transport and Main Roads of $1425, plus the $200 fine for fare evasion.

Mr Littler was given four months to pay the amount and told he could seek community service in lieu of the $200 fine.

[ozbob]

There must be more to this than what is being presented publicly.

However, a least the conviction was overturned.

We still have the situation  though where there has not been clarification re not being able to touch on at platform of departure or concourse as appropriate.

For example, say at Darra all readers are out except for the reader at the entrance to platform one.  Is it reasonable to expect people to search all platforms for a functioning reader?

I don't think this is the end of the matter.  Someone else will end up getting fitted because of confusion and beat the charge.  Then we might finally see a sensible conditions of use written.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

16th February 2012

go concerns

Greetings,

Go card is in the news again today.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/train-fare-evader-told-to-pay-1625/story-e6freoof-1226272176519

What concerns us is despite previous verbal assurances from TransLink there is still not specific written clarification on the situation when a go card user is not able to touch on at their platform of departure or concourse as appropriate.

For example, consider Darra,  4 platforms, widely separated by distance. All readers are out except for the reader at the entrance to platform one.  Is it reasonable to expect people to search all platforms for a functioning reader?

No it isn't, and would probably cause falls and injuries.  People are going to be rather scared that they will be warned/fined if their go card fails.

Some better conditions of use are needed.

As suggested many times before, this would clarify.

The go card system is dependent on technology but we recognise that sometimes it fails.  Go card users are assured that providing they are using their go card in good faith, they do not have to fear that they will be regarded as a fare evader and warned or fined should they not be able to touch on in the following circumstances:

1.  You have credit on your card go card or auto-top up is activated.

2.  On a bus or ferry if you are not able to touch on because of equipment failure the driver or crew will wave you on.  Do not touch off when you leave that bus or ferry.  You can travel for free.

3.  If go card readers have failed on your platform of departure at railway station (or concourse as appropriate) you can travel for your trip for free. Do not touch off at the completion of your trip.

4.  If your go card fails, the bus driver or crewperson will take the number of your go card. You are permitted to complete your journey for free but you need to take steps to obtain a new go card.  A central register of failed go card numbers is maintained and if you continue to use a failed go card you may be warned or fined.  If unable to touch on at railway station because of a go card failure complete your journey, but obtain a new go card.  If you pass through an attended fare gate the railway staff will take note of your go card number.

5.  It is not possible to list all the other miscellaneous causes of a go card touch failure, however providing you have credit on your go card and/or auto-topup activated and you are acting in good faith, you are permitted to complete your journey.

6.  If you are not able to use a go card because of a significant permanent physical or intellectual disability you may be entitled to a TransLink Access Pass.  See --> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/other-tickets/special-access-passes/translink-access-pass

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Fares_Fair]

Is there any sign of action over this yet?
It really is a common-sense approach.

I cannot understand how this situation would get past Fair Trade Queensland laws.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[SurfRail]

Is there any sign of action over this yet?
It really is a common-sense approach.

I cannot undestand how this situation would get past Fair Trade Queensland laws.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

They don't apply to the Crown. 

All the people saying TransLink should be taken to the ACCC give me the giggles.

[Fares_Fair]

I discovered that Queensland Rail were exempt from Fair Trading Rules (or it may have been the ACCC) whilst freight trains aren't (and this was before the break away of QR National)
It appears that cattle have more rights than people.

Oh, the irony in that!

Regards,
Fares_Fair.