City Precincts Services

[achiruel]

Rather than run a bunch of City Precincts services from seemingly random locations, how about we cut ALL of them and replace them with regular express/rocket services.  Then run frequent CP services via Capt. Cook Bridge from Woolloongabba & Langlands Park (both having turnarounds) so people can interchange easily.  Both are required, Langlands Park for Eastern/South-East Busway routes, 'Gabba for routes that pass through there (CP services won't go through MH so that's not an option).

Could an equivalent thing be done from the northside changing at RBWH & western suburbs changing at Indooroopilly?

[somebody]

Main limitation with that is that it funnels all the passengers into limited kerb space, mostly on Elizabeth St.

[achiruel]

I thought the usual route for CP services was along Margaret St i/b and Alice St o/b (for south/eastern services anyway).

[somebody]

I thought the usual route for CP services was along Margaret St i/b and Alice St o/b (for south/eastern services anyway).

It is, but you are saying to abolish these services.

[Jonas Jade]

Yeah I'm a little confused too. Do you mean full time rocket routing or City precincts routing?

[achiruel]

What I was suggesting, was rather than having city precincts services from wherever, have a limited number with convenient interchange.  I don't know the north/west well enough, but say from the south and east.  Have a frequent City Precincts service from Langlands Park stopping Stones Corner, Buranda then via Capt Cook Bridge then via normal City Precincts route to terminus.  Also another from Woolloongabba.  I chose these two places because they have
turnaround facilities and allow the vast majority of south/eastern routes to interchange.

I believe this would help the overall network as Precincts services could be much more frequent as the only need to serve two destinations ('Gabba & Langlands) and people could then transfer to/from the appropriate express or Rocket service to/from their destination/origin.

[somebody]

Oh, sorry.

Currently the only south side city precincts services are the 136 and 206.  Why don't we just chop of Garden City from the 136 and add another city precincts service to handle that?  Arguably, also the other SEB stations.

If you don't want to add another City Precincts service you could just add a stop at Buranda for the 206 and ask people to interchange if they want to use a CP service.

[achiruel]

It was basically an idea to try to improve the frequency of city precincts services by having shorter runs.  But maybe not very well thought out.

[somebody]

It was basically an idea to try to improve the frequency of city precincts services by having shorter runs.  But maybe not very well thought out.

No, it's not that poorly thought out.

Having a city precincts service for busway stations allowing interchange to reach the CBD is a reasonable idea.

[Mr X]

I quite like it, provided the frequency is alright.

[Jonas Jade]

It's much better than the haphazard arrangement of routes currently! 

[SurfRail]

I get very bemused by these discussions.  Do we have special rockets from places like Oxley or Northgate just because the train doesn't stop at Alice Street?

People can walk - seriously. 

You should generally only need to know ONE bus route to get from your suburb to the city as far as I am concerned, maybe more if you are where routes happen to converge or you live on the busway.  That route should have the same stopping pattern all day long and should be very easy to follow - no variations, no diversions, maybe some originating shortworkings but always with the same terminus in either direction.

Just do something like running the City Loop at CAT-like frequencies and making a clearer delineation between what uses the busway and the Captain Cook/Story Bridges, instead of needing direct buses to Parliament from everywhere in the BCC area.  All these rockets derogate from the legibility and efficiency of the network big time. 

The more I think about it, the more I really don't think rockets are justified at all except for maybe the Logan and Veolia ones which are normally just local services.  If this view is unpopular, then stiff - the system will never go anywhere while so many resources are committed to pandering to people's laziness.

[Jonas Jade]

That is whats being discussed, running a route or a couple of routes all day long via the City Precincts stop - increasing legibility, reducing CC congestion, allowing better coverage of routes across the city.

Although your rail analogy is slightly flawed because buses can go wherever required and aren't limited by the large cost infrastructure restraints that rail services are - they can go almost anywhere that there is a road with little additional cost.

Also, as can be seen by Cultural centre/South Bank issues, not all services can be running the same way all the time.

So where is the issue then with a hypothetical BUZ route going via City Precincts full time rather than South Bank? This could allow a transfer point outside of the CBD (Buranda/Gabba?), rather than requiring passengers to travel into the CBD and then change/walk, freeing up capacity for boarding pax at Mater/South Bank.

[Jonas Jade]

To clarify, I think the current arrangement is generally haphazard and inefficient, and I agree with most of SurfRails sentiments, but not everything can or should go the same way.

(And just because bus routes could go anywhere doesn't necessarily mean that they should)

[SurfRail]

So where is the issue then with a hypothetical BUZ route going via City Precincts full time rather than South Bank? This could allow a transfer point outside of the CBD (Buranda/Gabba?), rather than requiring passengers to travel into the CBD and then change/walk, freeing up capacity for boarding pax at Mater/South Bank.

I should clarify as well that this isn't a bad notion.  A single all stops route from 8MP to Buranda, then CCB to Riverside via Parliament sounds fine.

It's just the whole point-to-point thing I'm over.

[achiruel]

The only issue I have with that arrangement is it wouldn't allow passengers from routes that travel via Woolloongabba to transfer easily, hence why I wanted the Gabba-Precincts route as well.

[SurfRail]

The only issue I have with that arrangement is it wouldn't allow passengers from routes that travel via Woolloongabba to transfer easily, hence why I wanted the Gabba-Precincts route as well.

I think you could have something along the lines of:

- 8MP/Busway
- Mains Road/Busway
- Chandler/Old Cleveland Rd
- Aspley/Gympie Rd
- The Gap/Waterworks Rd

And leave it at that - no other BT peak hour only-services to and from the city whatsoever, except for specific applications (eg the 134, 302 etc which are counter-peak).  This way you will have intersected the vast majority of bus routes heading into the city with some acceptable misses (eg Kingsford Smith Drive - use Citycat to get to Riverside etc), so people can get to Parliament and Riverside a bit more easily.  Then just focus on BUZ and getting good local services hubbing into places like Garden City etc.  Work out a compromise between CCB and SEB routes and go from there.

For my money, all the Clarks, Logan City, Mt Gravatt and Park Ridge peak routes should just run Elizabeth St/Edward St/Alice St/CCB and leave it at that.  These services you only need because their off-peak equivalents are only local runs from far away with no reasonable prospect of feeding anything usefully (Beenleigh or Cleveland line generally are not going to be faster).  With BT, you can just hub the local routes because so many high-quality routes run to town all day with direct runs up the busways or main roads.

[achiruel]

I think you could have something along the lines of:

- 8MP/Busway
- Mains Road/Busway

I'm not sure that both of those are needed, passengers from Mains Rd can easily change at Griffith Uni.

How about a western (Moggill Rd/Coro Dr) route?

This is my idea for what I think are the four most important city precincts routes:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?msid=211031692475805443068.0004b8076e55782ddf978&msa=0&ll=-27.472486,153.037663&spn=0.067699,0.111494

I didn't actually draw the lines along the busways because it's much easier to snap to roads, but I'm sure you get the idea.  The only thing I wasn't sure about - is it possible to turn a bus around at RBWH?

Also: the core section looks purple because I drew that line last.  The core is from Margaret/Alice Sts to Wickham St outside Brunswick St Station.  Obviouslyl some allowances need to be made for i/b vs o/b trips.

[SurfRail]

I think the west can cope with being fed into the railway or transferring to the City Loop.  This service should be ramped up to improve inner city circulation in preference to adding more rockets I think.

[Mr X]

The only thing I wasn't sure about - is it possible to turn a bus around at RBWH?

yes- at the Butterfield St roundabout

[somebody]

I'd think that the effect of the City Precincts service is provided for Aspley and The Gap with the 343 and 382/383 respectively.  Yet both of these have dedicated CP services.  The same thing can be done for the West (Margaret/Charlotte).  The problem is the insistence on using Ann St when they would be better stopping at QSBS B or KGSBS for most people, avoiding the traffic.  There is stop space available for either option.

Gympie Rd gets most of the benefit with the 331/332/341 services but the tour of CBD streets in the PM is a poor option.  Riverside is the area which isn't quite so well served by those services at least in the AM.

How about a western (Moggill Rd/Coro Dr) route?

I'd be dead against keeping the current 457-9 route which currently do as you suggest for any particular western destination.