Sunshine Coast Line : Delays for NOVEMBER 2011

[Fares_Fair]

November delays thus far ... to SC commuters.

The times reported below do not take into account the 3 minutes and 59 second allowance that QR's service contract to TRANSLink includes.
Further to this contractual limit, TRANSLink allow trains from the Gold and Sunshine Coasts to be 6 minutes late before being recorded as such.
The times below are actual times.

UPDATED DAILY
The new timetable was supposed to make the services more reliable by adding 'fat' or 'padding' (extra time) into the timetable.
Our journeys are scheduled up to 10 minutes longer than the pre-June 6 timetable.
Is it more reliable ?

Do these reflect the on-time performance of our services.
See for yourself by the growing list below;

Individual monthly performance summaries found here: --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7184.0
................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Tuesday November 1, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

Arrived Central on time within 2 minutes of timetable

Tuesday November 1, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Wednesday November 2, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

3 minutes late into Central Station

Wednesday November 2, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Thursday November 3, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

Arrived Central on time within 2 minutes of timetable


Thursday November 3, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

7 minutes late into Palmwoods no announcement made for delay

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Friday November 4, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

18 minutes late into Central Station medical emergency at Bowen Hills disrupted multiple lines

Friday November 4, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

8 minutes late into Palmwoods thank you to QR for the announcements, including waiting for a passing train and red signals, well done.

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Monday November 7, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

4 minutes late into Central station no announcements made.

Monday November 7, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time arrived 1 minute early (no toilets on train)

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Tuesday November 8, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

2 minutes late into Central Station

Tuesday November 8, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Wednesday November 9, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

2 minutes late into Central Station

Wednesday November 9, 2011
3:34 PM service from City to Nambour

13 minutes late into Palmwoods thank you to QR for the announcements, including waiting for a passing train and incident at Strathpine station.

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Thursday November 10, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

4 minutes late into Central Station

Thursday November 10, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time arrived 1 minute early

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Friday November 11, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

Arrived Central on time within 2 minutes of timetable

Friday November 11, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

3 minutes late into Palmwoods

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Monday November 14, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

5 minutes late into Central Station


Monday November 14, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Tuesday November 15, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

3 minutes late into Central Station

Tuesday November 15, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

3 minutes late into Palmwoods

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Wednesday November 17, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

7 minutes late into Central Station no announcement made, arived 2 min early at Caboolture and then left 3 minutes late.

Wednesday November 18, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

7 minutes late into Palmwoods announcement made for delay, thank you QR.

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Thursday November 17, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

9 minutes late into Central Station no annoucement made for delay


Thursday November 17, 2011
4:34 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Friday November 18, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

24 minutes late into Central Station departed Nambour 6 mins late, no announcements made, scroller in carriage not working, possibly same for PA system.

Friday November 18, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time within 2 minutes of timetable


................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Monday November 21, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

3 minutes late into Central Station

Monday November 21, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time within 2 minutes of timetable

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Tuesday November 22, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

No data recorded today, (generous) assumption will be for on time arrival.

Tuesday November 22, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

No data recorded today, (generous) assumption will be for on time arrival.

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Wednesday November 23, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

3 minutes late into Central Station

Wednesday November 23, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

3 minutes late into Palmwoods

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Thursday November 24, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

Arrived Central on time within 2 minutes of timetable

Thursday November 24, 2011
4:34 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Friday November 25, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

60 minutes late into Central Station freight train brings down wires at Bald Hills, mass disruptions to Caboolture SC line

Friday November 25, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time within 2 minutes of timetable

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Monday November 28, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

2 minutes late into Central Station

Monday November 28, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods on time

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Tuesday November 29, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

7 minutes late into Central Station  no announcements made for delay


Tuesday November 29, 2011
5:04 PM services from City to Nambour

7 minutes late into Palmwoods vintage SC train travel tonight: dance of the trains at Mooloolah station, no air con in carriage with 60 standees, best part of hour without a/c.

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Wednesday November 30, 2011
6:14 AM service from Nambour to City

Arrived Central on time within 2 minutes of timetable

Wednesday November 30, 2011
5:04 PM service from City to Nambour

Arrived Palmwoods before scheduled time arrived 3 minutes early at 6:45 PM 

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[Gazza]

Quick question, but in terms of counting the total delays, do you only count every minute lost over 6?

[Fares_Fair]

Hello Gazza,

No, I count the true time lost to the minute (within a 2 minute window).
If it is within a 2 minute window (late or early) it is recorded as: Arrived Central on time within 2 minutes of timetable.
If on time to the minute it is shown as: Arrived Central on time
If it is over 2 minutes (but less than 3) late then it is recorded as 2 minutes late into Central station


Having said that, it is clear from the information recorded where the times exceed the 6 minute QR or Translink allowable window for late trains from the Coast.
It should be noted that under the terms of QR's service contract the allowance is for 3 minutes and 59 seconds only.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Gazza]

At the end of the month, perhaps it would be useful to compare total minutes lost, total over 4, total over 6.

[Fares_Fair]

SUMMARY
November delays updated daily ...

Total time lost (TTL) to date for typical Sunshine Coast commuter ...

Total time lost (TTL) in August 2011 = 295 minutes (that's almost 5 hours)
Average = 12.83 minutes every week day (23 in the month)

Total time lost (TTL) in September 2011 = 184 minutes (that's 3 hours)
Average = 8.18 minutes every week day (22 in the month)

Total time lost (TTL) in October 2011 = 110 minutes (that's nearly 2 hours)
Average = 5.24 minutes every week day (21 in the month)

Total time lost (TTL) in November 2011 = 204 minutes (that's nearly 3 & 1/2 hours) Subtracted 1 minute each for early arrivals at Palmwoods on 7/11/2011 and 10/11/2011.
Subtracted 3 minutes for early arrival on 30/11/2011.
Average =  9.27 minutes every week day (22 in the month)



FARES_FAIR'S NOTE:
QR do a remarkable effort given the infrastructure they have to work with.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

EDITED: Figures continually updated each day.

[Set in train]

An amazing record you keep here Fare's Fair, great to see it in black and white where the failings are.

[Fares_Fair]

Thnak you SiT,

It is to be a record of the actual performance of regular (mostly) peak hour services.

Top of this post is November's history to date, with a summary 4 posts down from it (2 posts up)

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

Updated figures for November 2011 (excerpt only)
See full listing at top of post.

Tuesday November 29, 2011
5:04 PM services from City to Nambour

7 minutes late into Palmwoods vintage SC train travel tonight: dance of the trains at Mooloolah station, no air con in carriage with 60 standees, best part of hour without a/c.

Total time lost (TTL) in November 2011 = 207 minutes (that's nearly 3 & 1/2 hours) subtracted 1 minute each for early arrivals at Palmwoods on 7/11/2011 and 10/11/2011.
Average =  9.41 minutes every week day (22 in the month)

EDIT: Data superseded, please see below for end of month figures.

[#Metro]

This is quite interesting FF.

See, if you can get an average value for time lost to delays and then x by value of time, you have a cash value that describes the benefit (partial) of duplication...

[somebody]

Not to mention being delayed every day by 6 minutes in the morning by the slower timetable assuming boarding the 6:37 train in the old timetable and the 6:23 train in the new.  In the evening it is 7 minutes assuming 17:04 or 17:28 departures in the new timetable, and 17:16 departure in the new timetable.

So in fact the slower timetable delays more, on average, than the unreliability.  13 minutes vs 9.41 minutes.  Yes, I know people are more annoyed by unexpected delays.

[Fares_Fair]

Not to mention being delayed every day by 6 minutes in the morning by the slower timetable assuming boarding the 6:37 train in the old timetable and the 6:23 train in the new.  In the evening it is 7 minutes assuming 17:04 or 17:28 departures in the new timetable, and 17:16 departure in the new timetable.

So in fact the slower timetable delays more, on average, than the unreliability.  13 minutes vs 9.41 minutes.  Yes, I know people are more annoyed by unexpected delays.

Very valid point you raise, Simon.

We get slower with every timetable 'improvement'.
If this keeps up we'll be as fast as a bicycle by 2030.  :bi

[Fares_Fair]

This is quite interesting FF.

See, if you can get an average value for time lost to delays and then x by value of time, you have a cash value that describes the benefit (partial) of duplication...

Total time lost (TTL) in August 2011 = 295 minutes (that's almost 5 hours)
Average = 12.83 minutes every week day (23 in the month)

Total time lost (TTL) in September 2011 = 184 minutes (that's 3 hours)
Average = 8.18 minutes every week day (22 in the month)

Total time lost (TTL) in October 2011 = 110 minutes (that's nearly 2 hours)
Average = 5.24 minutes every week day (21 in the month)

Total time lost (TTL) in November 2011 = 204 minutes (that's nearly 3 & 1/2 hours) subtracted 1 minute each for early arrivals at Palmwoods on 7/11/2011 and 10/11/2011.
Subtracted 3 minutes for early arrival on 30/11/2011.
Average =  9.27 minutes every week day (22 in the month)


TOTAL MINUTES LOST FOR AUGUST, SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER and NOVEMBER = 793 minutes or 13. 2167 hours.
Average for the 4 months = 198.25 minutes per month or 3.30 hours per month (3 hours 18 minutes)

TT allow what you think is a reasonable time cost to these figures and Bob's your leader ...
I'll assume say $50 per hour (open to suggestions here) x 3.30 hours (average) per month = $165 per month in lost time.

[Arnz]

Not to mention being delayed every day by 6 minutes in the morning by the slower timetable assuming boarding the 6:37 train in the old timetable and the 6:23 train in the new.  In the evening it is 7 minutes assuming 17:04 or 17:28 departures in the new timetable, and 17:16 departure in the new timetable.

So in fact the slower timetable delays more, on average, than the unreliability.  13 minutes vs 9.41 minutes.  Yes, I know people are more annoyed by unexpected delays.

Like Caboolture that went from 42 minutes in 1986 to 62 mins in 2011 for a typical all-stopper.   A typical off-peak/weekend Nambour service went from 1hr:36mins in 1992 (18 stations bypassed) to 1hr:45 mins in 2007 (18 stations bypassed) to 1hr:51mins in 2011 (13 stations bypassed)

[Set in train]

I always enjoy reading the contributions to the Sunshine Coast sub-forum, very switched on, diverse contributors.

The talk of economics, monetising the problems is most interesting.

Adversity always has a silver lining.

[#Metro]

TT allow what you think is a reasonable time cost to these figures and Bob's your leader ...
I'll assume say $50 per hour (open to suggestions here) x 3.30 hours (average) per month = $165 per month in lost time.

The average wage is about say $30 / hour, and let's say we discount a bit to say that people will tolerate some delay, say 70%

0.7 x 30 = $21 value of time

Then we have 3.3 hours x 12 months x $21 x number of SC pax (lets put this at 1500 per day, correct me here) = 1.2 million dollars per year in lost time

Perhaps that's how much TransLink should reduce fares by (about $800 per year) to make up for the delays.

Although rail would easily cost between $30-80 million/km to duplicate IMHO, so still pales compared to infrastructure cost.

[Golliwog]

Thats not really how you work out the value of time though. You do a survey where basically you ask a series of questions "Would you pay $1 to save 15 minutes on your trip home? $2? $3? ...." A bit more technical, but in our class we did a rough one based around the Airport link tunnel and we came up with a VOT of $15-$20/hr IIRC for a bunch of uni students. I belive it's called a stated preference survey, but it does have issues in that saying you'll pay $5 to save time is different to actaully handing over said $5.

[petey3801]

While this is a good set of data of performance etc. of the Northern line, I don't think it can really be used to properly justify the poor NCL Infrastructure.

To properly do this, the timings need to be taken from Caboolture - Nabour and vice versa. ie: How late arriving at Caboolture in the morning, log that. How late arriving at Caboolture in the evening peak, then what time arrival at Nambour (or Palmwoods in this case), then see if time was lost on the North Coast Line section.

Simply doing it Palmwoods - Central means there are a lot of other possible delays (that will be incurred to other lines as well) that are not due only to the SC/NCL line, which will go against your campaign in the eyes of the decision makers, and there are a lot of non-SC commuters who will be effected by these delays, so it's not a "Us Sunshine Coast commuters lost this much time this month!", as it's a lot more than just SC commuters losing that time in a lot of cases, whereas doing it just to/from Caboolture would give the actual delays caused by the NCL infrastructure.

The other thing is the 'Average time lost' over the month. Saying the average delay was 9.27 minutes every weekday is a crock of s#!t to be honest, because that number is being significantly inflated due to the couple of large problems that had absolutely nothing to do with the SC line (Wires down Bald Hills, medical emergency Strathpine and Bowen Hills and unknown delay of 24min on Fri 18/11, which may have occured on the SC line?), plus, there were 18 on-time runs in November. Taking out the large delayed trips mentioned above (incl. the 24min delay for arguments sake, as I don't know where that occured), the average delay is 4.6min per delayed trip. Also, in my eyes, 3 minutes or less late is quite reasonable for a journey of that distance IMO (and in the opinion of, AFAIK, ALL other rail operators in Australia and many around the world).
I think it's probably better to say something along the lines of 'We lost xx minutes/hours this month' and leaving it at that.

But, that's just my 2c anyway.

[Fares_Fair]

While this is a good set of data of performance etc. of the Northern line, I don't think it can really be used to properly justify the poor NCL Infrastructure.

To properly do this, the timings need to be taken from Caboolture - Nabour and vice versa. ie: How late arriving at Caboolture in the morning, log that. How late arriving at Caboolture in the evening peak, then what time arrival at Nambour (or Palmwoods in this case), then see if time was lost on the North Coast Line section.

Simply doing it Palmwoods - Central means there are a lot of other possible delays (that will be incurred to other lines as well) that are not due only to the SC/NCL line, which will go against your campaign in the eyes of the decision makers, and there are a lot of non-SC commuters who will be effected by these delays, so it's not a "Us Sunshine Coast commuters lost this much time this month!", as it's a lot more than just SC commuters losing that time in a lot of cases, whereas doing it just to/from Caboolture would give the actual delays caused by the NCL infrastructure.

The other thing is the 'Average time lost' over the month. Saying the average delay was 9.27 minutes every weekday is a crock of s#!t to be honest, because that number is being significantly inflated due to the couple of large problems that had absolutely nothing to do with the SC line (Wires down Bald Hills, medical emergency Strathpine and Bowen Hills and unknown delay of 24min on Fri 18/11, which may have occured on the SC line?), plus, there were 18 on-time runs in November. Taking out the large delayed trips mentioned above (incl. the 24min delay for arguments sake, as I don't know where that occured), the average delay is 4.6min per delayed trip. Also, in my eyes, 3 minutes or less late is quite reasonable for a journey of that distance IMO (and in the opinion of, AFAIK, ALL other rail operators in Australia and many around the world).
I think it's probably better to say something along the lines of 'We lost xx minutes/hours this month' and leaving it at that.

But, that's just my 2c anyway.

Thanks for your 2c petey.
Worth more than that.

I undertsand the point you make about the NCL infrastructure and the Caboolture to Nambour statistics.
I did consider what you propose, but in the end I did it this way because as a Sunshine Coast commuter we are impacted by delays along the full length of the line.
So what if it was between the city and Caboolture, a delay is a delay.
I note your point.
The record is also limited to the journeys that I make or the trains I catch. It is not comprehensive for the entire line or every service.
It's a snapshot.

I do not believe it will go against my campaign in the eyes of the (government) decision makers, who simply ignore the line and it's core issues anyway.
Santa's run a classic case in point.
The rail duplication another and greater instance backed up by reports and studies and parliamentary/ media statements (later reneged upon).

I have also included explanatory notes on where the major delays have occurred (as many as I can) so that it is obvious that the delay was not single line specific.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

EDIT: The 24 minute delay you mention started out by being 6 minutes late from Nambour (no reason was given), it then snowballed from there.

[petey3801]

fair enough!

It might be worth making a sub-note of what delays (and how long they are) on the NCL section as well, just so that data is present and you can use that to really go further with the bottleneck campaign.

I understand a delay is a delay wherever it occurs and delays are never wanted, but if someone were to do the same sort of thing on, say, the Cleveland line, it would more than likely give much the same results with delayed time, so could be worth taking note of late running on ncl alone as well as the entire journey.