Next most pressing bus fix

[somebody]

I say it is the cycle time on the traffic lights leaving QSBS!  Every time I've been through here on a weekday daytime there has been a substantial queue to get out.  If I remember, next time I go through on an 88, I'll record a video on my phone.

[HappyTrainGuy]

?

[Cam]

This may improve travel times for route 88 but for the vast majority of services it would just increase the queue at the Cultural Centre Bus Station.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It's only on long enough for about two-three busses to get out of the QSBS. Then to help limit the bottleneck make the Culture Centre pre paid only!

[#Metro]

Can this be brought up in PTAG?

Cultural Centre capacity and light cycle times?

[somebody]

This may improve travel times for route 88 but for the vast majority of services it would just increase the queue at the Cultural Centre Bus Station.

No, route 88 is unaffected by this.  It can use the far left lane which virtually no other routes can use.

[BrizCommuter]

I say it is the cycle time on the traffic lights leaving QSBS!  Every time I've been through here on a weekday daytime there has been a substantial queue to get out.  If I remember, next time I go through on an 88, I'll record a video on my phone.

So there is someone who uses the 88 then?

[Golliwog]

This may improve travel times for route 88 but for the vast majority of services it would just increase the queue at the Cultural Centre Bus Station.

I think it may help CC a little by spreading the load so you don't have 3 or 4 buses come from QSBS at once rather than spread out a bit.

[dwb]

No, route 88 is unaffected by this.  It can use the far left lane which virtually no other routes can use.

Perhaps more other routes can use a similar routing as per 88 so as to avoid Mater-SouthBank-Cultural Centre congestion?

[dwb]

?

Yes HTG, getting the cars out of that north quay section and turning right onto vic bridge is important, that little section of north quay is a major bottleneck for several bus routes as cars queue to go across vic bridge blocking lanes etc... they also stuff up the left turn from george st onto rex... my only question would be where would this additional traffic be displaced if the car access to vic bridge was changed.

and if you were going to change it, might you consider closing it to vehicles all together and vastly improving walking and cycling on the bridge?

ed.. ps also a key/legend on your little diagram would make it much more accessible to a wider audience!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sorry it was a quick grab from another thread. Red is bus only/bus lanes, yellow is traffic, white is lights and black is footpaths/crossings.

[Set in train]

IF you are stuck on the ramp or bridge by the lights at North Quay/Queen Street, phone BCC on 3403 8888 and lodge a complaint. A comment such as "the buses are queuing much longer than usual today" usually elicits a good response.

[Golliwog]

I think the one problem with that idea is that if you cut North Quay off to cars between Adelaide St and the Victoria bridge then 1) Cars can't access the Victoria bridge from that direction (no big deal if you ask me), BUT 2) cars trying to get to Elizabeth St now have a much longer and far more convoluted trip (unless they jump on the riverside expressway, though I doubt the offramp could cope, which is why I would suggest something that at least allows cars to get to Elizabeth St from North Quay would be better. My suggestion in that other thread digging out a underpass for the cars under the buses. There would be a bit of disruption, but you should be able to do it as a cut and cover for most of it using weekend of night time partial closures.

[#Metro]

ed.. ps also a key/legend on your little diagram would make it much more accessible to a wider audience!

I don't understand the diagram. Is there supposed to be a tunnel in here somewhere? And what about cultural centre side?

[somebody]

I say it is the cycle time on the traffic lights leaving QSBS!  Every time I've been through here on a weekday daytime there has been a substantial queue to get out.  If I remember, next time I go through on an 88, I'll record a video on my phone.

So there is someone who uses the 88 then?

Indeed, there's a few of us but not many.  Even in peak hour I have never seen anyone standing.  I'd say patronage is picking up, but its had a year!  People using the "through routing" are increasing also.  The people using it could easily be contained in the empty space on the expresses on the corridor.

Milton workers should be further encouraged to use the train service, by making that service attractive I mean.

[HappyTrainGuy]

ed.. ps also a key/legend on your little diagram would make it much more accessible to a wider audience!

I don't understand the diagram. Is there supposed to be a tunnel in here somewhere? And what about cultural centre side?

No tunnels. Its just blocking off the intersections to cars so busses then have priority rather than waiting for a car to pass by.

What about blocking off the intersection and divert traffic from William Jolly Bridge into Peel Street so the number of lights are reduced. Traffic from Victoria Bridge can turn left like normal to enter the underground road to the museum/art gallery while all remaining traffic just turns left where the lights used to be.

Only problem with the above is that buses wouldn't be able to make a right turn out of CCBS but nothing is stopping them from running down futher and making a right or combining/extending routes once the Northern Busway is completed.

Then do something similar with the Queen Street Busway enterance. Remove the road traffic from the intersection. Move the lights forward as their's no car lanes which then makes the left hand exit for busses from the CCBS longer. At the same time remove the amount of ped crossings and make a perminate crossing towards Adelaide street with the old bus lanes partly cemented over at the crossing to allow for a shorter ped crossing time. All this would extend the timing of how long the lights are green for so more than a couple buses can make the climb out before it goes red again.


Key. (I didn't add all the lights and possible road routes. Just a quick whip up)
White dots/Lines are traffic lights.
Black lines are pedestrian crossings/areas/footpaths.
Red are for buses/Blue for the busway.
Pink is for random space.
Green is wider/two lanes
Yellow for car traffic.

[dwb]

The problem with this solution is that it is probably too hard to completely remove cars off that section of north quay (not to mention the straight through Grey St traffic), and really, the cars going straight through at least on the north of the bridge aren't the major issue, it is the cars turning right on to Victoria Bridge, especially when they block the Ann St left turn onto North Quay and then the bus lane in the intersection of Adelaide and North Quay... some enforcement on these cars blocking the intersection would do wonders... well actually if you couldn't turn right onto the bridge a lot of that traffic just wouldn't be there because it would change modes or find an alternate route (Grey St Bridge?).

And besides, in the afternoon peak it is not buses getting on to the bridge that is the problem, it is the capacity of passenger transactions at Cultural Centre busway station itself. There are simply too many different routes (ie highly illegible for passengers) and too many buses (only so many can pull in and out at once) trying to use the station. To compound that buses exiting the station (either turning right onto Grey St or going straight through to West End or South East Busway block up at the lights at Melbourne St/Grey St.

So the question should be, how do you a) reduce the complexity of the passenger experience at CCBS and b) how do you increase the number of buses that can use the station?

The answer to A) to me seems to be to reduce the number of routes... rather than 60 routes have 20 at max! [see http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6956.msg73380#msg73380]

The answer to B) is more complicated...

some suggest add more platform length... you could try to do this, but there'd be numerous issues including that this would do nothing for capacity at Mater or South Bank stations, further it would make it MORE difficult for passengers at CCBS as they'd have longer to run for the bus and the bus would have to wait for longer, that is unless you could make the station sufficiently long with gaps in between to effectively separate it into three or more stations linked end to end, where only certain routes stopped at each station (much like KGSBS).

some suggest fully gated station so there is no on bus tagging required (which may make it a tad quicker to get on the bus but still doesn't solve the time it takes passengers to run to their bus)
some suggest simplifying the intersection at the end (so buses can exit the station quicker, but even if you took the cars out, you'd still have issues with right hand turning buses)

Also, none of these suggestions have indicated how they would improve the situation for cyclists and pedestrians, and absolute must given the "black spot" nature of this area.

[dwb]

Come to think of it, the pink could be another smaller bus station for all western routes (West End, Indro etc) which could then run express through Cultural Centre...

[dwb]

Back to that conflicting right hand turn BUSES are making from the busway into Grey St... perhaps that could be banned and instead the bus loop and layover space be turned around... that is instead of buses turning right from the busway into grey then left into Peel then left into Hope then left into the busway inbound, they could perhaps go outbound from cultural straight ahead through two intersections, and then turn right into Hope St... it would increase the number of buses crossing paths with other buses exiting from the portal onto Melbourne St, but in a less sensitive location. Buses could then turn around in Hope St at a new little bus turn around built on that vacant block that I assume QR owns.

[#Metro]

This is my solution. Nobody agrees with it, but I don't care and I am going to put it up there anyway.

[dwb]

This is my solution. Nobody agrees with it, but I don't care and I am going to put it up there anyway.

But I do tramtrain!!

I'm talking short term fixes, like you could fund it tomorrow and deliver in 3 months!

[#Metro]

But I do tramtrain!!

I'm talking short term fixes, like you could fund it tomorrow and deliver in 3 months!

Good luck!

[dwb]

But I do tramtrain!!

I'm talking short term fixes, like you could fund it tomorrow and deliver in 3 months!

Good luck!

Paint and light timings can happen very quickly... Tho I won't hold my breath, esp before an election.

[somebody]

This is my solution. Nobody agrees with it, but I don't care and I am going to put it up there anyway.

Are you going under North Quay and over the Riverside Expressway?  Is that even possible?  No more Cultural Centre, I can see that going over well with those that matter - not.

[Golliwog]

This is my solution. Nobody agrees with it, but I don't care and I am going to put it up there anyway.

Are you going under North Quay and over the Riverside Expressway?  Is that even possible?  No more Cultural Centre, I can see that going over well with those that matter - not.

If it can be the same height as the Victoria bridge is from the underside above the RE to road level, then yes. However his proposal is for a full blown subway going under the river. TT started a thread somewhere called the North-South subway/metro or something.

[dwb]

This is my solution. Nobody agrees with it, but I don't care and I am going to put it up there anyway.

Are you going under North Quay and over the Riverside Expressway?  Is that even possible?  No more Cultural Centre, I can see that going over well with those that matter - not.

If it can be the same height as the Victoria bridge is from the underside above the RE to road level, then yes. However his proposal is for a full blown subway going under the river. TT started a thread somewhere called the North-South subway/metro or something.

It doesn't have to be under the river (you could have a nice little bridge directly next to the Captain Cook Bridge for instance, as you likely wouldn't actually put it where he's actually indicated on that map for dramatic purposes.