Sandgate - Shorncliffe...How easily and cheaply?

[Gazza]

Does anyone else reckon the duplication from Sandgate to Shorncliffe should just get done soon so it is 'out of the way', the line is done and dusted, and can basically be left alone.
I know calling it a 'weekend project' is obviously not entirely true, but it's not far off 

As far as I can see, the current double tracks at Shorncliffe have 1 in 5 concrete sleepers, so presumably they aren't gonna relay that.

So from what I can see, there are 2 level crossings, and subsequently 3 ped gate units that would need to be unbolted, and shifted over a few meters when the extra track gets laid.

And in terms of extra trackage, it seems to only be about 700m or so, with no property resumptions or earthworks needed.

Does the wye get used for anything anymore? Could you build a new platform straight over the top and decommission it? 

I think the only real expensive part would be an upgrade to Shorncliffe, with an overpass. We already know it is $7 mil for an over bridge (With lifts), and I'd say a million or two for a second platform.

To me it almost seems like the sort of project that should have been done in with the $200 million station upgrade programme?

Thoughts?

[Mr X]

Under bligh and co. it would need massive landscaping works, grading works and an officially official opening  

[Gazza]

I know hey. But to me, its just boring infrastructure basics, (A bit like when they put in a new feeder station or whatever) Not even worthy of ribbon cutting.

Also, does the track beyond Shorncliffe get used for anything? I can see that it is electrified....But is it used for stabling or whatever?

You could knock the price down even more by just doing an 'end station' like the new Ferny Grove one.

[Mr X]

Or rip it up and replace it with a busway   might get a better frequency then

[Arnz]

Under bligh and co. it would need massive landscaping works, grading works and an officially official opening  

Followed by the many uses of "World" First Class in many press releases.

[#Metro]

I have had radical 'foamer' thoughts about ripping up Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and Doomben and replacing them with busways. You'd need to pour a lot of concrete over the tracks...

A number of benefits - more train paths would become available which could then be handed over to make a more metro style system.

[Arnz]

I have had radical 'foamer' thoughts about ripping up Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and Doomben and replacing them with busways. You'd need to pour a lot of concrete over the tracks...

Fishing for bites from Brizcommuter eh?

[somebody]

Also, does the track beyond Shorncliffe get used for anything? I can see that it is electrified....But is it used for stabling or whatever?

Used to be used for stabling until the residents had a whinge, apparently.

[Gazza]

I have had radical 'foamer' thoughts about ripping up Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and Doomben and replacing them with busways. You'd need to pour a lot of concrete over the tracks...

Re Shorncliffe, it would be cheaper to just build a couple of terminating platforms at Northgate, and run the line as a shuttle, with through trains as needed in peak.

[somebody]

I have had radical 'foamer' thoughts about ripping up Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and Doomben and replacing them with busways. You'd need to pour a lot of concrete over the tracks...

Re Shorncliffe, it would be cheaper to just build a couple of terminating platforms at Northgate, and run the line as a shuttle, with through trains as needed in peak.

That would be a service reduction between Northgate and Bowen Hills as well infliction of a change for no real reason.

[Gazza]

I have had radical 'foamer' thoughts about ripping up Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and Doomben and replacing them with busways. You'd need to pour a lot of concrete over the tracks...

Re Shorncliffe, it would be cheaper to just build a couple of terminating platforms at Northgate, and run the line as a shuttle, with through trains as needed in peak.

That would be a service reduction between Northgate and Bowen Hills as well infliction of a change for no real reason.

If we were being foamy and tossing up between replacing the busway, or turning the line into a shuttle.
Wasn't a realistic suggestion.

It's not really a bad little line to be honest. Only has 4 level crossings, 2 of which are of no real consequence...Only a couple of slow curves.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It's not just as simple as moving it a few metres and bobs your uncle. Trackside equipment has to be moved, nearby surroundings need earthworks to support the additional weight associated with peak hour trains/track/ballast/trackside equipment and supports, signaling has to be reconfigured, computer systems/people working in the UTC need to be familiar with the layout as do the drivers, crossovers have to be provided in such a way where it won't effect the sidings/triangle loop, drainage has to be addressed and it would be a tight squeeze for the Palm Ave crossing. Your looking at least a 3 day job minimum

[Stillwater]

Shorncliffe station lends itself to an underpass (built without steps) beneath the station - connecting Gowen St with the parkland in front of the station, and also connecting with a second platform.  Lift towers etc not suited to the local streetscape and suburb character.  Also, underpass could be used as pedestrian connectivity to both sides of Shorncliffe and would solve the problem of the condemned overbridge and its walkway replacement that's opposed by the locals.

[BrizCommuter]

I have had radical 'foamer' thoughts about ripping up Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and Doomben and replacing them with busways. You'd need to pour a lot of concrete over the tracks...

Fishing for bites from Brizcommuter eh?

BrizCommuter tries not to respond to such stupidity anymore, especially from someone who wants to convert busways to light rail.

Anyway, the allegedly planned Sandgate signalling and switch upgrade should keep Shorncliffe coping for some time. This is probably a weekend work for installation, but planning signalling projects takes months.

[#Metro]

BrizCommuter tries not to respond to such stupidity anymore, especially from someone who wants to convert busways to light rail.

Anyway, the allegedly planned Sandgate signalling and switch upgrade should keep Shorncliffe coping for some time. This is probably a weekend work for installation, but planning signalling projects takes months.

You know if you read it, you would realise:

a) It wasn't a serious proposal, and thus marked as such (did you see the words radical foamer? or not?)
b) Did you know there is a difference between LRT and metro? Did you know if you read my posts and reported on them
accurately, I said METRO?

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter tries not to respond to such stupidity anymore, especially from someone who wants to convert busways to light rail.

Anyway, the allegedly planned Sandgate signalling and switch upgrade should keep Shorncliffe coping for some time. This is probably a weekend work for installation, but planning signalling projects takes months.

You know if you read it, you would realise:

a) It wasn't a serious proposal, and thus marked as such (did you see the words radical foamer? or not?)
b) Did you know there is a difference between LRT and metro? Did you know if you read my posts and reported on them
accurately, I said METRO?

BrizCommuter wasn't being serious either 

[O_128]

I wish these projects weren't politicised, this is something realistically that should just be under improvement works.  I agree that it should be done asap though.

[Stillwater]

It is one of the things that should be done under a 'small projects' program, with dedicated funding year-on-year, just as money is allocated annually for maintenance and repairs.  The government should see the worth of such a program.  Duplication Sandgate-Shorncliffe is just one item of low-hanging fruit, where efficiencies can be achieved across the network, putting aside the fiction of the Connecting SEQ 2031 aspirational document.  While we might aspire to big things, and so we should, little things can make a difference.  It is a bit like the roads infrastructure program -- yes, new motorways are important, but often the traffic will flow more freely through construction of an overtaking lane here, a new set of traffic lights there and a slip lane at this or that intersection.  Sandgate-Shorncliffe duplication falls within that category.  Let's not forget that a new pedestrian pathway planned and the station is/was due for a spruce-up.  Why not wrap the whole thing into one project and get it over and done with.  I'd hate to think that everything gets put on hold now while all money goes to the Gold Coast Line in preparation for the Commonwealth Games.

[HappyTrainGuy]

What money... the Government is already strapped for cash prior to the announcement anyway.

[Fares_Fair]

They are probably looking for some good money making assets to sell in order to host the games in 2018.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[HappyTrainGuy]

What assets. Anna Bligh sold them all off 

Naming rights to Cities? "Welcome to the Vodafone McDonalds Gold Emirates Airlines Coast"

[colinw]

The Gold Coast would surely be sponsored by Crazy Clarks!!!

[Stillwater]

Lol.  U mean convert Landsborough station to a McDonald's outlet?  That way you could use the large carpark at night.  Or lengthen the dwell time at the 'Eudlo Bunnings' so people could slip in for a bag of nails or whatever, before getting back on the train. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

"The next station is Asile 6; Nails and hammers. QR reminds passengers not to leave wallets and DIY shopping lists behind." Coming to a Nambour train near you!

What ever happened to the Youi 260?

[Mr X]

Well Indooroopilly has already been converted into a mcdonalds outlet!!

[BrizCommuter]

The Dubai Metro has station naming rights.

[Gazza]

Just a side thought, but electifying the 4th track from Corinda to Darra falls under this category of improvements that should just happen as a matter of course, not for ribbon cutting.

[SurfRail]

The Gold Coast would surely be sponsored by Crazy Clarks!!!

Crazy John's anyway (he's a local).

[Gazza]

And dead.

[SurfRail]

And dead.

Hence the craziness.

[Derwan]

There are currently a lot of people living along the Shorncliffe Line (or in Redcliffe) who currently drive to Northgate for the increased frequency.  This reduces the patronage along the Shorncliffe line, which in turn is used as a reason why the duplication isn't required.

I'm looking forward to pushing for increased frequency throughout the peak periods (not just 2 additional services as it is now) - made possible by the (yet-to-be-commenced) Sandgate upgrade.  It would be interesting to see just how many people head to their local station instead of driving to Northgate (or all the way to work).  This may then push the case for the duplication.  But if we don't get a decent frequency upgrade next year, the patronage will continue to suffer (as will Sandgate Rd and the car parks and streets at Northgate).

Does the wye get used for anything anymore?

It gets used occasionally for steam train trips.  It's one of those things that would be nice to maintain - but not at the expense of an inadequate commuter service.

The track beyond the station is currently used in the am peak for the two additional services - and appears to be the only way they will currently do 15-minute gaps in the am peak.  This may change after the Sandgate upgrade.

The extra track is also used in conjunction with the wye for steam train services that have to work around commuter services.

[somebody]

And that would free up space at Northgate for additional park 'n' riders.

[Derwan]

And that would free up space at Northgate for additional park 'n' riders.

Yeah - well - it's more likely to free up some of the streets around Northgate, which I'm sure the residents will appreciate.  The car parks are currently full by about 8am.

I think I've mentioned here before than they were looking at improving the parking facilities at Boondall station as it was just off the highway - and could potentially attract some of the highway traffic to park there instead of closer to the city.  But the proposal wouldn't work with the current dismal frequency.

If the Shorncliffe Line had a decent frequency, it would make an idea like this viable - and potentially reduce highway traffic.

As it stands, if I see the helicopter hovering around my area - or hear on the radio that there's an issue along the Gateway Motorway - I prepare myself for a crowded train.  People will get off the highway at Bracken Ridge Rd and when faced with further congestion at Deagon, will simply park the car and jump on a train.  This just goes to show that people WILL catch trains if it's a more attractive option than driving.

[Emmie]

Duplicating the tracks would be comparatively easy, but that means fixing up Sandgate station to allow trains to use both platforms to be used. That's listed to occur, but it won't be cheap and easy. Currently there's no disabled access to platform 2, and it will need lifts added.

It's not just the greater frequency that drives people to Northgate, Derwan.  It's also that since the new timetable came in, the Shorncliffe line has been decoupled from anything past Roma St. That's doesn't matter for people heading to the city, but for other destinations - Toowong (and to UQ), Auchenflower (Wesley), and Milton (various workplaces, plus SGIO Stadium) - the Shorncliffe line has now become up to 30 minutes SLOWER than it used to be. I had to visit Wesley yesterday. Got a Bowen Hills stopping train back from Auchenflower, and arrived at Roma St to find the Shorncliffe train had just departed, from a different platform 2 minutes earlier. This is not uncommon. I change at Roma St because at least I can sit in a stationary but air conditioned train on platform 3 for the 28 minutes. But what a crazy waste of time.

[SurfRail]

Duplicating the tracks would be comparatively easy, but that means fixing up Sandgate station to allow trains to use both platforms to be used. That's listed to occur, but it won't be cheap and easy. Currently there's no disabled access to platform 2, and it will need lifts added.

Sandgate is to be upgraded by the end of 2012, so that is not a huge concern.

[somebody]

Sandgate is to be upgraded by the end of 2012, so that is not a huge concern.

Which means that the phase 2 timetable won't be implemented until then!

It's not just the greater frequency that drives people to Northgate, Derwan.  It's also that since the new timetable came in, the Shorncliffe line has been decoupled from anything past Roma St. That's doesn't matter for people heading to the city, but for other destinations - Toowong (and to UQ), Auchenflower (Wesley), and Milton (various workplaces, plus SGIO Stadium) - the Shorncliffe line has now become up to 30 minutes SLOWER than it used to be. I had to visit Wesley yesterday. Got a Bowen Hills stopping train back from Auchenflower, and arrived at Roma St to find the Shorncliffe train had just departed, from a different platform 2 minutes earlier. This is not uncommon. I change at Roma St because at least I can sit in a stationary but air conditioned train on platform 3 for the 28 minutes. But what a crazy waste of time.

I still can't believe that the randomness of the weekend South Bank/Roma St timetable remained after the June 2011 changes.

Changing at Roma St increases the chance of a missed connection though.  The dwell at Central aids the connection, although it is still exceeding tight.  I'd use bus options from Auchenflower.

Extending the Richlands-Bowen Hills trains to Caboolture express BH-EJ-NG would allow these trains to relatively easily catch the Shorncliffe train at Northgate.

[Arnz]

Extending the Richlands-Bowen Hills trains to Caboolture express BH-EJ-NG would allow these trains to relatively easily catch the Shorncliffe train at Northgate.

I'd rather the Richlands-Bowen Hills be extended to Petrie to form 15 mins off-peak frequencies between Virginia and Petrie.  The infrastructure for it is already there as far as Lawnton.  Although this will require a rewrite of the off-peak part of the Sunshine Coast timetable to fit around it.

[Set in train]

The Gold Coast would surely be sponsored by Crazy Clarks!!!

Crazy John's anyway (he's a local).

Crazy Ron, Ron Bakir.