Full time express on the Ipswich Line

[ozbob]

We might be better off for the off peak and counter expresses running the trains express from Redbank to Indro rather than Darra to Milton. There are a lot of people getting on and off Indro to Milton. You can then run 2 express trains to ipswich, 2 all stoppers to Redbank and 2 All stoppers to Richlands. You then also get 6 trains per hour Indro to City.

This is an interesting idea. I tend to agree with the counter peak services stopping all stations between the city & Indooroopilly. If a service is stopping at Milton, Toowong & Indooroopilly then it may as well stop at Auchenflower & Taringa. Many of the 20+ services inbound on the Caboolture Line in the am peak that terminate at Roma Street then run empty to Ipswich. These could stop all stations to Indooroopilly, then express to Redbank & then all stations to Ipswich as you have suggested.

In your proposal, those travelling counter & off peak from Chelmer to Goodna would have to change at Redbank for Ipswich. It could work if a 3-4 minute wait at Redbank could be timetabled for the Ipswich express service then running all stations to Ipswich.

There's very little at Taringa (other than tech1) and plenty of buses which could be used instead.  Auchenflower does have the Wesley Hospital, but it seems this doesn't get a huge amount of PT access.  I'm not convinced about this one.  You also have increased rolling stock requirements from adding stops.

I think you'd be quite surprised how popular Taringa actually is. It is fairly rare (at any time of the day or night) for there to be noone boarding/alighting at Taringa in the off-peak. Particularly during the day, there can be quite a number of people boarding and alighting there. It is sort of a quiet achiever...

Indeed. Taringa has the highest public transport useage rate of all the suburbs.  Taringa is a surprisingly busy station from my observations.

[ozbob]

Another left field suggestion is to run some trains AM peak Ipswich (Rosewood) to terminate at Roma St, and turn back counter peak.

[somebody]

I am sure this is going to surface in the election campaign.  You improve the infrastructure, signalling and start to run it tighter.   Obviously these things are not going to happen overnight, but the longer term plans need to be established and the system fitted to allow it to happen.  This is what I would do.  CRR might come about, what if it doesn't?

I am always fascinated on visits to Melbourne.  The track is rather shoddy compared to the track around Brisbane (true ...), but the trains just run bang, bang, bang.  Go to Malvern during a morning peak (on the quad Caulfield to South Yarra) and watch the trains ping through.  Why on earth can't we do similar?  OK they have some relief in terms of City loop and many more platforms at Flinders St, but the quad between Corinda and Roma St is hardly working even in the morning peak, the problem is the CBD axis of course.  Transport myopia.  The only short term solution is improve pre and post peak frequencies and use a fare structure to support it.

That's not much of an answer to this question:

What are you going to do about the all stopping to Northgate?  Fat timetable?

I don't see how it's a problem that people at Eagle Junction are "crowding" the Nambour trains.  I do agree that needing to serve Albion/W/T/Nundah are issues.  Long distance commuters should get over it with respect to the Eagle Junction people.  As for Gold Coast people who should get over Beenleigh people "crowding" their trains.  And Southern Highlands and South Coast people in NSW.

I thought you were against the notion of a frequency reduction at Nundah and Toombul on the grounds of it being a poor policy to give greater encouragement to live further afield.  Or was that not you?

We might be better off for the off peak and counter expresses running the trains express from Redbank to Indro rather than Darra to Milton. There are a lot of people getting on and off Indro to Milton. You can then run 2 express trains to ipswich, 2 all stoppers to Redbank and 2 All stoppers to Richlands. You then also get 6 trains per hour Indro to City.

This is an interesting idea. I tend to agree with the counter peak services stopping all stations between the city & Indooroopilly. If a service is stopping at Milton, Toowong & Indooroopilly then it may as well stop at Auchenflower & Taringa. Many of the 20+ services inbound on the Caboolture Line in the am peak that terminate at Roma Street then run empty to Ipswich. These could stop all stations to Indooroopilly, then express to Redbank & then all stations to Ipswich as you have suggested.

In your proposal, those travelling counter & off peak from Chelmer to Goodna would have to change at Redbank for Ipswich. It could work if a 3-4 minute wait at Redbank could be timetabled for the Ipswich express service then running all stations to Ipswich.

There's very little at Taringa (other than tech1) and plenty of buses which could be used instead.  Auchenflower does have the Wesley Hospital, but it seems this doesn't get a huge amount of PT access.  I'm not convinced about this one.  You also have increased rolling stock requirements from adding stops.

I think you'd be quite surprised how popular Taringa actually is. It is fairly rare (at any time of the day or night) for there to be noone boarding/alighting at Taringa in the off-peak. Particularly during the day, there can be quite a number of people boarding and alighting there. It is sort of a quiet achiever...

Indeed. Taringa has the highest public transport useage rate of all the suburbs.  Taringa is a surprisingly busy station from my observations.

I don't expect a high rate of counter peak commuting though.

I do see a lot of people using the buses there.

Another left field suggestion is to run some trains AM peak Ipswich (Rosewood) to terminate at Roma St, and turn back counter peak.

Not needed.  So many trains are terminating on Roma St #8 and can be extended, why do such a thing?

[ozbob]

I have suggested the way forward.  Until they have the confidence in the systems to tighten up we are going nowhere.  So a plan has to put in place to incrementally improve. 

Simply demanding 15 minutes everywhere is not going be achieved.  It has to be an incremental progression.   Most people would be delighted with three trains per hour instead of two, the alternative being stalemate ...

No doubt, phase two will see phase one principles replicated ...

[ozbob]

Quote from: ozbob on Today at 03:27:15 PM
Another left field suggestion is to run some trains AM peak Ipswich (Rosewood) to terminate at Roma St, and turn back counter peak.
Not needed.  So many trains are terminating on Roma St #8 and can be extended, why do such a thing?

Squeeze a few more down services into town with out having to worry about path restrictions Roma St <-> Bowen Hills.

I have noticed a lot more trains using platform 2 Roma St of late ...

[somebody]

Ahh, Ok.  TBH, I'm more worried about the poor service on the Shorncliffe, Beenleigh and Cleveland lines than the Ipswich line.

[ozbob]

Ahh, Ok.  TBH, I'm more worried about the poor service on the Shorncliffe, Beenleigh and Cleveland lines than the Ipswich line.

Yes.  Ipswich is not doing too bad, OK improved frequency Darra to Ipswich particularly would be nice out of peak, but the rest of the network is languishing a lot more in many respects.

I must say though, the number of people who catch the train at Goodna around the clock is impressive.

Phase two might result in some improved patterns and peak frequency for the Shorncliffe, Beenleigh and Cleveland lines.  I am not sure if out of peak is going to see any real gains though.

[O_128]

Ahh, Ok.  TBH, I'm more worried about the poor service on the Shorncliffe, Beenleigh and Cleveland lines than the Ipswich line.

Yes.  Ipswich is not doing too bad, OK improved frequency Darra to Ipswich particularly would be nice out of peak, but the rest of the network is languishing a lot more in many respects.

I must say though, the number of people who catch the train at Goodna around the clock is impressive.

Phase two might result in some improved patterns and peak frequency for the Shorncliffe, Beenleigh and Cleveland lines.  I am not sure if out of peak is going to see any real gains though.

On the cleveland line I would be happy with a new pattern rather than more services, Its the current bunching of services that is annoying

[HappyTrainGuy]

Wouldn't suprise me to see Shorncliffe-Cleveland introduced very soon.

[Arnz]

Extend Nambour trains all stations to Petrie then exp to Northgate?

Won't work if it only operates every 90 minutes in off-peak + would add unnecessary travel time.  We are already suffering enough with the +4 mins to off-peak and most peak services, and +10 mins to 2x Peak 'slow express' services (each way).  Also would stretch rollingstock and would require non-toilet rollingstock on top of the allocated IMU/ICE (Gympie-only) services.  

Any surplus non-toilet rollingstock would be better off improving Cleveland and Shorncliffe peak rather than congesting and screwing up passengers north of Caboolture even more.

[ozbob]

Media release 16 September 2011

SEQ: Off peak express service to Ipswich

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has called for off peak express services to Ipswich (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Currently, commuters between Ipswich and the Brisbane City have to endure a 58 minute trip, serving 22 intermediate stations.  This time could be sped up by introducing a tiered service, by having a 15 minute frequency all stations to Richlands, combined with Ipswich  expresses either Milton or Roma St to Darra, serving Toowong and Indooroopilly.  This is similar to what happens in peak time.  Similarly an express service should be implemented on the Caboolture line, best done by extending the current Richlands trains to Caboolture, running express between Bowen Hills and Northgate stopping only at Eagle Junction."

"Such a service is easily achievable on present infrastructure and does not make it any more difficult for freight trains on the Ipswich Line other than the negligible need to occupy Darra platform one.  Caboolture line congestion should also be easily manageable, although likely would require a new timetable for the Sunshine Coast line, and would be easier if the current Caboolture trains were curtailed to Petrie.  Peak rolling stock utilisation would be marginally increased if the Ipswich expresses were continued counter peak, but RAIL Back On Track believes this effect is marginal.  An increased frequency from Richlands to the CBD will encourage passengers to catch the train and save time over the route 460 bus."

"Logan residents have access to off peak express rail services to Brisbane via Loganlea & Beenleigh railway stations. These express services slash over 15 minutes off the travel time between Beenleigh and Central compared to the all stations services. The distance from Central to Beenleigh is actually several kilometres further than it is to Ipswich, but because there are off peak express services to Beenleigh, the travel time is 13 minutes less than it is to Ipswich. When will Ipswich residents have access to express services outside peak periods?"

"Services need to provide competitive journey times with the car to be attractive."

Reference:

1.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6710.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times 17th September 2011 page 12

Call for more express trains

[beetsje]

I have concerns about how our trains services are setup to run from one side of Brisbane to the other.  In my experience this means a network problem on one side of the city has a much bigger affect.  I used to catch a train at Central on the Ipswich line after 17:00 that came from Caboolture and was late, 9 times out of 10.

I know that this would not be easy to achieve but why don't we have a radial service, where services terminate at Roma or Central?  Obviously there would have to be some through services or linking services as well!

I have started catching a train again on the Ipswich line once or twice a week after listening to a colleague who spruiked the improvements in the service, at least in peak hours.  After giving up on the unreliable and crowded services (I had been catching trains on this line since 1980), trying the bus services (at least I got a seat inbound) but outbound services were unreliable, and driving in (clean, comfortable, reliable, expensive), I find the revised services impressive.  No overcrowding, though I have only used the service inbound, and most importantly frequent.  I have not bothered with the timetable as I expect a train to be there every 6 minutes or so!  Well done QR.

Jon

[somebody]

ozbob, as to your V/Line comments, what you are really suggesting is that Nambour/Gold Coast services become TravelTrain services.  I don't reckon that's a good path forward.  If you look at CityRail's website (which does it similar to SEQ), you'll see that most of the peak interurban services carry 80% seated load, or around 700-800 pax.  I would submit V/Line services such as Geelong might be even more successful if integrated into myki fares.  Once that is done, I don't see the need for the stop restrictions.  I don't care so much about the branding, I'd have to say.  As much as people like stop restrictions, they also like single seat journeys to everywhere.

I know that this would not be easy to achieve but why don't we have a radial service, where services terminate at Roma or Central?  Obviously there would have to be some through services or linking services as well!

That is not possible, I'm afraid.  There are capacity limitations Roma St-Bowen Hills, so doing as you suggest would waste paths in the capacity restricting section.  I hope that makes sense.

Wouldn't suprise me to see Shorncliffe-Cleveland introduced very soon.

Let's hope for that to be combined with Manly-Doomben.  Or Lota-Doomben, but the latter isn't achievable with the cross occurring at Thorneside as per present.

[somebody]

From the Queensland Times 17th September 2011 page 12

Translink's response is disappointing.  Basically they are saying we should accept the mediocre upgrade we have been given.  I'd prefer a second bite at the IPS-CAB cherry before they move on to the "Suburban" lines.

[Stillwater]

Always, always.  Invariably when asked to comment on a new thought or idea, the position to be adopted and defended is the status quo, no matter how discredited that position has become.  Now, it is not in any public servant's career interests to start supporting, or spouting, new ideas in public without permission of the top eschelon or the minister's office.  Generally, the media officers in government departments (the people media go to for comment) are low down the public service totem pole.  They are authorised to flick media inquiries away, using 'the approved words' -- a set of pre-approved agreed words.

Or they dodge the issue.  Thus, if a media outlet rang the Attorney-General's departrment and said 'so-and-so has called for reintroduction of capital punishment, what do you think?' the answer is something like 'the government believes in an appropriate and suitable penalty, depending on the crime committed.'

Keep asking the questions, folks.  The more often they are asked, behind the scenes governments and their bureaucrats will start to look at the issue while all the while defending the 'stated position', until they do the work to change that position.  Persistence in asking the question requires them to take action to change that position .... in the end.

[ozbob]

ozbob, as to your V/Line comments, what you are really suggesting is that Nambour/Gold Coast services become TravelTrain services.

No way, what I am suggesting is the VLine model is a great one.  Have you travelled on their services?  Long haul services need a better demarcation than what is being achieved at the moment.  It was flagged in the 'draft connecting 2031' remember the 'rail revolution' that there would be these sort of services, viz. 'Coast Link'

By they way you can use myki on some VLine services now.  The plan is to roll out on the major VLine routes next year.

[somebody]

I've used V/Line, but only a bit over 10 years ago.

[ozbob]

I've used V/Line, but only a bit over 10 years ago.

The real improvements have taken place since 2006.  Well worth visiting Melbourne and going for a few trips.  Hope to go to Clunes next visit!

[somebody]

Surely the most important things are speed and frequency.

Speed to Landsborough/Nambour will never be achieved with the 9 stations bypassed.  I'd wonder if Nambour trains should use the suburbans, especially in the PM?

[Arnz]

Surely the most important things are speed and frequency.

Speed to Landsborough/Nambour will never be achieved with the 9 stations bypassed.  I'd wonder if Nambour trains should use the suburbans, especially in the PM?

Theres not many suburban slots available post Suburbans timetable restructure.  Also, I think the Sunshine Coast Line would get minor changes in Stage 2, since the Gympielanders operate on the suburbans.

My brief (out of the box-foaming-etc) idea is moving the 5:28 to Nambour (curtail the 5:28pm service to Caboolture) to a 5:34pm departure on the suburbans and perhaps extend this to Cooroy using ICEs (this would require using the suburbans since it would be a ICE), move the Gympie North to 6:04pm.  Both trains would be ICEs (theres usually only 2x 5-car ICE sets out of a possible 4 sets utilised at any given time).  

Move the existing 6:04pm to 6:34pm and shifting the 7:04pm to 7:34pm.   That way, 7x trains form a clockwise half-hourly peak frequency between 3:30pm and 6:30pm, and a further 3x trains form a hourly service between 7:30 and 9:30

I know I said Cooroy is not the ideal terminating location, but I would think it would provide the ideal turnback for the late night service.  Yandina, Eumundi and Cooroy would gain a extra afternoon peak service, and also the spare ICE could provide for the late evening uni students connecting at Landsborough (last classes finishes at 9pm).

[somebody]

Be sure nice to have an update to the inner city timetable.

From 4pm to 5:30pm, ex-Central:
Airport: 16:11, 16:32, 16:41, 17:00, 17:11
Ferny Grove: 16:04, 16:25, 16:37, 16:49, 16:57, 17:03, 17:17, 17:24, (17:31)
Shorncliffe: 16:23, 16:53, 17:06, 17:22
Doomben: 16:28, 17:13

So there are slots between 16:04-16:11-16:23, 16:41-16:49, 17:24-17:31
and arguably 16:32-16:37, perhaps with some re-timing.

Seems a bit of a furphy to say that there isn't capacity on the suburbans in the PM.

[Arnz]

Be sure nice to have an update to the inner city timetable.

From 4pm to 5:30pm, ex-Central:
Airport: 16:11, 16:32, 16:41, 17:00, 17:11
Ferny Grove: 16:04, 16:25, 16:37, 16:49, 16:57, 17:03, 17:17, 17:24, (17:31)
Shorncliffe: 16:23, 16:53, 17:06, 17:22
Doomben: 16:28, 17:13

So there are slots between 16:04-16:11-16:23, 16:41-16:49, 17:24-17:31
and arguably 16:32-16:37, perhaps with some re-timing.

Seems a bit of a furphy to say that there isn't capacity on the suburbans in the PM.

I was talking post Suburbans timetable restructure in 2012.  Which even then they'll still need to leave a slot for the Gympielander, as well as a spare 1 or 2 slots per hour.  Hence my (foaming) suggestion of a Cooroy service departing the "suburbans" platforms at 5:34pm (the existing 5:28pm Nambour would be curtailed to Caboolture in this suggestion), and moving the Gympie to 6:04pm.  Both trains would be ICEs running express Bowen Hills to Caboolture using the suburbans, and would only take up 1 slot between 5 and 6, and 1 slot between 6 and 7.

[ozbob]

I've used V/Line, but only a bit over 10 years ago.

The real improvements have taken place since 2006.  Well worth visiting Melbourne and going for a few trips.  Hope to go to Clunes next visit!

A selection of V/line and Metro Trains Melbourne passenger trains filmed near Oakleigh and Hughesdale. Scenes include electric suburban trains (Comeng & Siemens), and V/line "Vlocity" diesel railcars as well as surprise visits from a restored Victoria Railways "DERM" railcar!

[ozbob]

V/Line country and Metro Trains Melbourne suburban passenger trains at West Footscray station - Part 2, Dawn 6:30am-7:30am Trains seen are:
0:00 Metro Comeng 6 car electric, from Melbourne
0:33 V/line Vlocity diesel 3 cars, to Melbourne
0:43 V/line push-pull "P class" diesels with 6 Harris "H" cars, from Melbourne
0:55 V/line Vlocity diesel 5 cars, to Melbourne
1:10 V/line "N class" diesel N460 with 4 "N" cars, to Melbourne
1:23 Metro Comeng 6 car electric, to Melbourne
1:44 Metro Comeng 6 car electric, to Melbourne
2:05 Metro Siemens 6 car electric, from Melbourne
2:27 V/Line vlocity diesel 3 cars, to Melbourne
2:36 V/line "Sprinter" 3 cars, to Melbourne
3:04 Metro Comeng 6 car electric, from Melbourne
3:27 V/line push-pull "P class" diesels with 6 Harris "H" cars, to Melbourne

[ozbob]

The two preceding presentations demonstrate how different situations are handled.  All too hard in Queensland ...

Push-pull set to Ipwsich (Rosewood) to Gatton.  Too easy ...  use a couple of the 1720s about to be flogged off ...

The 'Harris' cars are converted Harris Suburban trains, which were the first new trains after the Tait sets.  I remember how exciting it was to have a 'Harris' train, the new blue trains, on your line in  the 1950s ...

Yep, Queensland is a public transport backwater ...

From memory, the P class DELs were converted T's 'It was the Y's which used the traction motors from old suburban units ...'

[somebody]

I'd hate for SEQ to go away from its all electric network, which means that unless there is a new path through the Little Liverpool Range there won't be upgraded services west of Grandchester, and probably Rosewood.

[ozbob]

The mess on the Warrego highway will mean that community pressure will eventually get rail services back to Gatton I reckon.  If this was Victoria it wouldn't be an issue, the question would be how many services per day out of Gatton?

Rather than using what is now available as an interim solution, they will wait until it is critical and be forced to implement some very expensive short term fixes  pending urgent works and so forth.  They are myopic fools.

QRN is flogging off the 1720s so they won't have to run the lighter branch lines, hence they will close.  100s of thousands tonnes of cotton out of Dirranbandi gone from rail, onto the roads to add to the basket case . Queensland Rail should snaffle those 1720s and use them out west for the time being, pending electrification and so forth.  The issue to be solved is who will look after the 1720s?  QRN obviously don't wish too (unless it is black, looks and smells like coal hey go away ...) and presently Queensland Rail doesn't have the capability.  Ipswich Workshops??