Ipswich to Gold Coast bus service using the Logan Motorway

[Cam]

I suggest Translink consider a single bus service from Ipswich to Surfers Paradise & return be scheduled during summer on weekends. More services could be added & the timetable extended year round if the demand is there. Such a service could leave Ipswich 8.30-9am Sat & Sun & make a few additional stops such as Booval, Redbank & Goodna, before joining the Logan Motorway.

There could be stops at a couple of the theme parks to drop off passengers. The return trip could leave Surfers Paradise late afternoon & pick up at the theme parks before closing time.

Such a service would reduce public transport travel times by more than an hour each way & make a day trip to the Gold Coast far more practical for Ipswich residents without access to a car e.g. teenagers & seniors.

[ozbob]

Good suggestion Cam.  I have also raised with Queensland Rail informally the suggestion of Sunday excursion rail services Ipswich to the Gold Coast via Tennyson as well.  They have run a couple of football specials in the past.

[SurfRail]

I think it would be a waste of money continuing it past Beenleigh when the railway and bus offer reasonably competitive travel times from there.  Plenty of enterprising coach / charter companies could provide that kind of service from other parts of SEQ and GCCC, if it had any nous left at all, should be encouraging them with incentives.

Certainly better cross-suburban services in the southern suburbs are needed full time.  One day it should be possible to travel from Beenleigh to Ipswich via Springfield without having to go all the way into town, if the Flagstone ULDA plans are anything to go by.

[somebody]

It already is possible, of course, if you use the 104.

[Gazza]

I think it would be a waste of money continuing it past Beenleigh when the railway and bus offer reasonably competitive travel times from there. 

I wouldn't even go as far as Beenleigh. The Logan Motorway passes within spitting distance of Loganlea (exit off, then 600m down Loganlea Rd), so run it from there!

[mufreight]

I suggest Translink consider a single bus service from Ipswich to Surfers Paradise & return be scheduled during summer on weekends. More services could be added & the timetable extended year round if the demand is there. Such a service could leave Ipswich 8.30-9am Sat & Sun & make a few additional stops such as Booval, Redbank & Goodna, before joining the Logan Motorway.

There could be stops at a couple of the theme parks to drop off passengers. The return trip could leave Surfers Paradise late afternoon & pick up at the theme parks before closing time.

Such a service would reduce public transport travel times by more than an hour each way & make a day trip to the Gold Coast far more practical for Ipswich residents without access to a car e.g. teenagers & seniors.

There used to be such a service operated by McCaffatys which operated a Metro Link service between Toowoomba and Surfers Paradise.
The service was timed to connect with the train to Brisbane at Ipswich and with the train from Brisbane at Beenleigh for passengers to Surfers Paradise.

[somebody]

I suggest Translink consider a single bus service from Ipswich to Surfers Paradise & return be scheduled during summer on weekends. More services could be added & the timetable extended year round if the demand is there. Such a service could leave Ipswich 8.30-9am Sat & Sun & make a few additional stops such as Booval, Redbank & Goodna, before joining the Logan Motorway.

There could be stops at a couple of the theme parks to drop off passengers. The return trip could leave Surfers Paradise late afternoon & pick up at the theme parks before closing time.

Such a service would reduce public transport travel times by more than an hour each way & make a day trip to the Gold Coast far more practical for Ipswich residents without access to a car e.g. teenagers & seniors.

There used to be such a service operated by McCaffatys which operated a Metro Link service between Toowoomba and Surfers Paradise.
The service was timed to connect with the train to Brisbane at Ipswich and with the train from Brisbane at Beenleigh for passengers to Surfers Paradise.

I'm guessing this pre-dates the Gold Coast line?

[achiruel]

It already is possible, of course, if you use the 104.

Interesting that the Journey Planner doesn't seem to advise the use of Route 104 (I did a search for Ipswich to Beenleigh on a weekday starting from earliest service and most recommend the use of the 598 from Chelmer to Salisbury (all during the daytime off-peak) and the occasional change at Roma St during peak.  Of course in the evening after the 598 has finished they all go via Roma St.  There was one odd suggestion of train to Roma St, P88 to Upper Mt Gravatt, 555 to Loganholme and 565 to Beenleigh, although why anyone would use it I'm not sure.

Trip times via Roma St could be much faster if not for the 24-minute transfer to the Gold Coast train at Roma St.  Transfer to the Beenleigh train is even worse (30 minutes).

[somebody]

The 104 was no doubt a more attractive option in days that the Gold Coast train served Yeerongpilly.

[Cam]

I think it would be a waste of money continuing it past Beenleigh when the railway and bus offer reasonably competitive travel times from there.  Plenty of enterprising coach / charter companies could provide that kind of service from other parts of SEQ and GCCC, if it had any nous left at all, should be encouraging them with incentives.

There are significant delays in transferring when the services aren't frequent - change at Beenleigh then change at Coomera for the theme parks or change at Nerang for Surfers Paradise. If there were services every 15 mins off peak to connect with then transferring may be more competitive. However, I have no doubt that a single service to Surfers Paradise via theme parks will be viable within a few years with the population of Ipswich expected to increase rapidly. If such a service is viable, or even possibly profitable in summer for a private bus service, then why isn't Translink providing it already?

I'd add Ipswich City Council to the list of councils that should be encouraging such a service as it would make living in Ipswich slightly more attractive. Surely ICC, GCCC, the theme parks & the QLD government can collectively provide such a service in the near future as it would be a win for most involved.

[ButFli]

I am also going to put it out there that this sort of service should be provided by private enterprise. I for one do not believe that Translink should be spending money on subsidising Ipswichians spending a day at the beach. There are a number of services that operate from Brisbane. If Ipswichians are keen they could catch the train to Roma St and take a commercial bus service from there.

[somebody]

I am also going to put it out there that this sort of service should be provided by private enterprise. I for one do not believe that Translink should be spending money on subsidising Ipswichians spending a day at the beach. There are a number of services that operate from Brisbane. If Ipswichians are keen they could catch the train to Roma St and take a commercial bus service from there.

And indeed, they can already get there on Translink services.  This would just be a faster service to do it.

[mufreight]

Once again the commercial reality falls considerably short of the aspirations of many of those who have posted in this particular thread on this subject.

Private enterprise would not touch it with a barge pole, to be effective it would require a better than hourly frequency and would require a large coach for the fewtimes when it carried a paying load and the rest of the time it would mostly be a lot of empty seats using road space and adding to road congestion rather than reducing it.
No operator ever covers costs much less makes a profit with a load factor of zero.
If such a service were to be reinstated it would be under a CSO arrangement with the taxpayers paying for the service, yet some of those who have posted comments with regard to the level of subsidy for longer distance rail commuters expressing the view that they should not be the recipiants of subsidy are now proposing that a service that could only exist as a CSO based service.  Somewhat inconsistent with previous post in other threads I would think.

[somebody]

^ I've heard of beach services running 2-3 times/day in each direction, in school holidays only.  Surely that is the kind of service envisaged here.

[mufreight]

^ I've heard of beach services running 2-3 times/day in each direction, in school holidays only.  Surely that is the kind of service envisaged here.

Simply not comercialy viable, a private operator would be better off not operating than operating a service such as you envisage, an actual outlay without vehicle cost but covering fuel and drivers wages of between $450 and $600 per round trip so some 20 pax at a fare of $50 each way would be needed to cover costs and make a marginal profit.

[somebody]

It may well not be commercially viable.  I don't know that the service I am thinking of operated again the next year.  Not sure who was paying for it either.  Although I'm sure the fare was no more than $15.

[Cam]

I am also going to put it out there that this sort of service should be provided by private enterprise. I for one do not believe that Translink should be spending money on subsidising Ipswichians spending a day at the beach. There are a number of services that operate from Brisbane. If Ipswichians are keen they could catch the train to Roma St and take a commercial bus service from there.

Some people may not be happy with Translink subsidising buses from Nerang to Surfers Paradise on a weekend so that those from the western suburbs of the Gold Coast can spend "a day at the beach". Heaven forbid that a Brisbanite/Brisvegan catches a train to Nerang & a bus to Surfers Paradise for "a day at the beach". What about subsidised services for "a night at the footy"?

Is public transport only supposed to be provided for someone that is going somewhere that they have to & not for enjoyment?  What is wrong with encouraging people to take public transport rather than driving? Isn't the Federal Government trying to reduce greenhouse gases?

The Pacific Motorway back from the Gold Coast was under speed late this afternoon due to the numbers of vehicles. A considerable number of these vehicles took the Logan Motorway exit. There is no practical public transport alternative from Ipswich to the Gold Coast & vice versa. If a Translink service that left Ipswich bound for the Gold Coast was near full then the subsidy would be about $300 using Simon's costing of $600. That $300 subsidy would allow many "Ipswichians" the opportunity to go to the Gold Coast for a day trip by public transport. Many may not otherwise do such a trip by public transport because of the lengthy travel time currently required. It would also take some vehicles off the road as some may choose to take public transport rather than drive.

If a service from Ipswich to Surfers Paradise is not acceptable for a relatively small subsidy then what about a regular service to Beenleigh or Loganlea via the Logan Motorway?

[somebody]

I see bigger fish to fry, I'm afraid.

A Goodna-Loganlea bus may be viable at some point in the future, but I don't see it now.

[ButFli]

Coachtrans offers a return trip to Gold Coast theme parks from Brisbane CBD for less than $50. Just sayin.

[mufreight]

Coachtrans offers a return trip to Gold Coast theme parks from Brisbane CBD for less than $50. Just sayin.

Odds are that there is a gate subsidy paid by the theme parks for passengers who utilise the service.

[Gazza]

Coachtrans offers a return trip to Gold Coast theme parks from Brisbane CBD for less than $50. Just sayin.

Why bother. The train is more or less the same speed, and much cheaper.

[somebody]

Coachtrans offers a return trip to Gold Coast theme parks from Brisbane CBD for less than $50. Just sayin.

Odds are that there is a gate subsidy paid by the theme parks for passengers who utilise the service.

I'd be very surprised.  I think your suggested cost is high.  Why's it so expensive?

[mufreight]

Coachtrans offers a return trip to Gold Coast theme parks from Brisbane CBD for less than $50. Just sayin.

Odds are that there is a gate subsidy paid by the theme parks for passengers who utilise the service.

I'd be very surprised.  I think your suggested cost is high.  Why's it so expensive?

The cost of a coach of say 53 seat capacity would be in the region of $300, fuel in the region of 90 lt for a round trip Ipswich to the G Coast adds another $135 to the bill, then drivers wages if a week day add another $150 or $290 if on a week end then just add up the figures and that would be for a single round trip.  Before you start on the actual trip running times would only total at worst 5 hours for the day and the coach could easily do two round trips that would involve dead running and a second driver and there is no assurance that a full seated load would be carried, a load factor of 40% would be considered to be reasonable but even without the dead running would not be viable and as an operations or commercial manager for a coach company it would be more that the business could sustain to even drive the coach out of the depot for that return which would in fact be an operating loss.

[somebody]

I thought you said that the price was excluding the cost of the coach i.e. assuming the coach is otherwise idle.  Probably a fair assumption in school holidays.

[mufreight]

I thought you said that the price was excluding the cost of the coach i.e. assuming the coach is otherwise idle.  Probably a fair assumption in school holidays.

Quite obviously your knowledge of the commercial realities of operating bus or coach operations could be engraved on the hrad of a pin with a 14lb hammer and a cold chisel operated by an inebriated, blindfolded monkey.
The level of knowledge that you have espoused on this and a number of other commercial aspects of the operation of public transport is to be kind astounding, and no doubt your level of expertise would qualify you for a position as an adviser to the current Government where you could make full use of your talent in accelerating the process of sending the State broke.

[somebody]

WTF?  Here's what you said:

^ I've heard of beach services running 2-3 times/day in each direction, in school holidays only.  Surely that is the kind of service envisaged here.

Simply not comercialy viable, a private operator would be better off not operating than operating a service such as you envisage, an actual outlay without vehicle cost but covering fuel and drivers wages of between $450 and $600 per round trip so some 20 pax at a fare of $50 each way would be needed to cover costs and make a marginal profit.

EDIT: The point is that by suddenly including ownership costs of the coach you have moved the goalposts from your original costing.

[somebody]

For the record, I think that post was well over the line there, mufreight.  

[Derwan]

*Puts moderator hat on*

Please debate the issues.  Personal insults are not necessary. 

[mufreight]

For the record, I think that post was well over the line there, mufreight.  I would further suggest that the reason you resorted to abuse is that you realised you had been caught out.

If it is a vehicle owned by the Government things like the cost of owning the unit, insurance and registration are absorbed, if a private operator they are up front costs.  The suggestion that because the proposed services would be over school holidays and the vehicles would not be being used for school services would be avaliable overlooks the point that school buses would not be suited to such a service and with the current requirements for operating a fare paying service could not in the majority of cases be used anyway.

If you consider that I resorted to abuse then might I suggest that perhaps less uninformed BS may be less provocative and a few minutes researching your subject if you do not have personal experience and knowledge relevant to the subject.
Some more consistency in posts makes them more credible.

As for being caught out perhaps you should reread the posts on this thread.  
The bottom line is that there was such a service which with a subsidy was not viable, special school holiday services have also been operated in the past and these services were sponsored by the various theme parks and the Gold Coast Tourism.

[somebody]

If it is a vehicle owned by the Government things like the cost of owning the unit, insurance and registration are absorbed, if a private operator they are up front costs. 

Be that as it may, you did say this:

^ I've heard of beach services running 2-3 times/day in each direction, in school holidays only.  Surely that is the kind of service envisaged here.

Simply not comercialy viable, a private operator would be better off not operating than operating a service such as you envisage, an actual outlay without vehicle cost but covering fuel and drivers wages of between $450 and $600 per round trip so some 20 pax at a fare of $50 each way would be needed to cover costs and make a marginal profit.

Refer to bold bit.

I don't want to continue this, but it seems clear to me that you were in fact excluding ownership costs in your quoted price.

If you want, we can remove this discussion from the thread.