Are train drivers sandbagging lately?

[somebody]

I might incur the ire of some here.

A while ago I had a morning peak express train running about 5 minute late at Indooroopilly platform 4 (down main) continuing at a snail's pace, even past the temporary speed restriction which I believe is/was present at Taringa.  A all stations train on the suburbans arrived at the same time, and we kept pace with it until Auchenflower.  It is very unlikely that there was a train in front as I had been waiting at Indooroopilly for 9 minutes, but perhaps a slow freight?  Even that I have trouble believing as I would not expect a freight on that part of the network in peak.

A couple of trains I've had pull in to Central #4 at approx 5km/h.  While the track layout isn't conducive to high speed entry, I'd expect speeds in excess of 15km/h would be permissible at the point in which the cab is passing the west end of the platform.  Perhaps I am wrong?

Had a train approaching Park Rd #2 last night at approximately 10km/h.  Departure signal from the station was green, so it cannot be because of that.  Perhaps running ahead of time, but even then I'd prefer running down the time at the station.  It also makes it more clear that a leaner timetable is possible, so perhaps that is why they don't want to do it.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Your not the Metro chief executive by any chance?  

A while ago I had a morning peak express train running about 5 minute late at Indooroopilly platform 4 (down main) continuing at a snail's pace, even past the temporary speed restriction which I believe is/was present at Taringa.  A all stations train on the suburbans arrived at the same time, and we kept pace with it until Auchenflower.  It is very unlikely that there was a train in front as I had been waiting at Indooroopilly for 9 minutes, but perhaps a slow freight?  Even that I have trouble believing as I would not expect a freight on that part of the network in peak.

Could have been many things. The driver being cautious with traffic on the level crossings combined with the weight of the train and speed restrictions is one.

A couple of trains I've had pull in to Central #4 at approx 5km/h.  While the track layout isn't conducive to high speed entry, I'd expect speeds in excess of 15km/h would be permissible at the point in which the cab is passing the west end of the platform.  Perhaps I am wrong?

If the train is following after another its better to have a slow approach then speed up and slow down again. Remember there's an extra 65t of passengers now starting to shuffle around mostly to the rightof the train ready to get off.

Had a train approaching Park Rd #2 last night at approximately 10km/h.  Departure signal from the station was green, so it cannot be because of that.  Perhaps running ahead of time, but even then I'd prefer running down the time at the station.  It also makes it more clear that a leaner timetable is possible, so perhaps that is why they don't want to do it.

It could have been driver training, a disabled passenger getting off, a message from control but my guess is on a cautious driver purposely slowing the train down by a few seconds so it runs on schedule.

[somebody]

Had a train approaching Park Rd #2 last night at approximately 10km/h.  Departure signal from the station was green, so it cannot be because of that.  Perhaps running ahead of time, but even then I'd prefer running down the time at the station.  It also makes it more clear that a leaner timetable is possible, so perhaps that is why they don't want to do it.

It could have been driver training, a disabled passenger getting off, a message from control but my guess is on a cautious driver purposely slowing the train down by a few seconds so it runs on schedule.

Another possibility might be a Beenleigh bound train going through the flat junction shortly before and stopping the train (presumably) from Cleveland.  Although that would reduce the possibility that the train was ahead of schedule, if it had just been delayed by that.

We can rule out a disabled passenger getting off while the train is moving!

A while ago I had a morning peak express train running about 5 minute late at Indooroopilly platform 4 (down main) continuing at a snail's pace, even past the temporary speed restriction which I believe is/was present at Taringa.  A all stations train on the suburbans arrived at the same time, and we kept pace with it until Auchenflower.  It is very unlikely that there was a train in front as I had been waiting at Indooroopilly for 9 minutes, but perhaps a slow freight?  Even that I have trouble believing as I would not expect a freight on that part of the network in peak.

Could have been many things. The driver being cautious with traffic on the level crossings combined with the weight of the train and speed restrictions is one.

I think we can safely rule out level crossing caution from Indooroopilly-city.  We can equally rule out a need for caution with weight and speed of the train.  What you are saying there is that maybe it isn't safe to drive a train at 50km/h.

A couple of trains I've had pull in to Central #4 at approx 5km/h.  While the track layout isn't conducive to high speed entry, I'd expect speeds in excess of 15km/h would be permissible at the point in which the cab is passing the west end of the platform.  Perhaps I am wrong?

If the train is following after another its better to have a slow approach then speed up and slow down again. Remember there's an extra 65t of passengers now starting to shuffle around mostly to the rightof the train ready to get off.

Sorry?  If the train is already moving on approach to the points it is just a matter of slowing down later.

You mightn't like it, but the chief of Metro is my hero.  Ramming in needed sense into the operating patterns in spite of opposition is a beautiful thing.  If only we could get him in charge of the Brisbane bus system!

[petey3801]

I might incur the ire of some here.

A while ago I had a morning peak express train running about 5 minute late at Indooroopilly platform 4 (down main) continuing at a snail's pace, even past the temporary speed restriction which I believe is/was present at Taringa.  A all stations train on the suburbans arrived at the same time, and we kept pace with it until Auchenflower.  It is very unlikely that there was a train in front as I had been waiting at Indooroopilly for 9 minutes, but perhaps a slow freight?  Even that I have trouble believing as I would not expect a freight on that part of the network in peak.

Not too sure about that one. Quite possible the train was running on restricted signals (may have been a train-jam on the mains?) There is also a 25km/h speed restriction on the Down Main between Indooroopilly and Taringa, approx. 150-odd metres long. Apart from that, I can't comment, as I wasn't there to see the situation...

A couple of trains I've had pull in to Central #4 at approx 5km/h.  While the track layout isn't conducive to high speed entry, I'd expect speeds in excess of 15km/h would be permissible at the point in which the cab is passing the west end of the platform.  Perhaps I am wrong?

Speed into Platform 4 Central is 10km/h from the points at the Roma Street end until the end of the train has left the platform on the Fortitude Valley end of the station, where the speed increases to 25km/h between the platform and the points. Platform 4 is a royal pain in the a$$.

Had a train approaching Park Rd #2 last night at approximately 10km/h.  Departure signal from the station was green, so it cannot be because of that.  Perhaps running ahead of time, but even then I'd prefer running down the time at the station.  It also makes it more clear that a leaner timetable is possible, so perhaps that is why they don't want to do it.

There is currently (well, as of late last week before I started holidays) a 15km/h speed restriction through the points on the country end of Park Road, so that's why the train was going so slow through there.

[somebody]

Ouch!  Thanks for all that.  Which are permanent speed restrictions and which temporary?

[petey3801]

Central P4 10km/h is a permanent speed, whereas the Taringa and Park Rd ones are temp. Taringa is down from 60 (restriction starts at the 60 board, 50km/h beforehand). Park Road is down from 25km/h (has been on and off for the past few months...).

[HappyTrainGuy]

We can rule out a disabled passenger getting off while the train is moving!

People do move around inside the train while its moving (even those in wheelchairs and crutches).

I think we can safely rule out level crossing caution from Indooroopilly-city.  We can equally rule out a need for caution with weight and speed of the train.  What you are saying there is that maybe it isn't safe to drive a train at 50km/h.

I was saying that a driver wouldn't speed up if they had to quickly slow down again for a speed restriction with a full train during peak hour between Indooroopilly and Taringa.

Sorry?  If the train is already moving on approach to the points it is just a matter of slowing down later.

You mightn't like it, but the chief of Metro is my hero.  Ramming in needed sense into the operating patterns in spite of opposition is a beautiful thing.  If only we could get him in charge of the Brisbane bus system!

Not all trains approach platform 4 from a moving standpoint. If you are unhappy with how QR are managing this write them a letter demanding them that they make trains go a few kph faster and post the reply here.

[somebody]

If you are unhappy with how QR are managing this write them a letter demanding them that they make trains go a few kph faster and post the reply here.

[somebody]

A while ago I had a morning peak express train running about 5 minute late at Indooroopilly platform 4 (down main) continuing at a snail's pace, even past the temporary speed restriction which I believe is/was present at Taringa.  A all stations train on the suburbans arrived at the same time, and we kept pace with it until Auchenflower.  It is very unlikely that there was a train in front as I had been waiting at Indooroopilly for 9 minutes, but perhaps a slow freight?  Even that I have trouble believing as I would not expect a freight on that part of the network in peak.

In case anyone is interested, Translink's response to the above is:

Unfortunately, there are many circumstances that arise on a daily basis outside of our control which can affect our rail services running to the advertised schedule. In these circumstances TransLink, in partnership with Queensland Rail, work closely to minimise any disruption to our customers however, as you may appreciate, some required network changes can increase the travel time. I have forwarded your feedback on the incident you experienced to our delivery partner, Queensland Rail, to assist with the improvement of our services.

What a load of waffle.

[Golliwog]

What did you expect from Translink? They don't operate the trains, so why would they be able to give an in depth answer that would satify you?

[Fares_Fair]

What did you expect from Translink? They don't operate the trains, so why would they be able to give an in depth answer that would satify you?

I would expect that the authority tasked with managing the entire transport network, viz. TRANSLink, would find out the answer to the query for the 'customer'
or refer the 'customer' to someone who does know, be it in QR or wherever.
IMHO, that would be the professional and courteous approach.

Waffle doesn't make anyone happy.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

What did you expect from Translink? They don't operate the trains, so why would they be able to give an in depth answer that would satify you?

Hold on, but don't they bear overall responsibility for the transport network ?

I would expect that the authority tasked with managing the entire transport network, viz. TRANSLink,
would find out the answer to the query for the 'customer' or transfer the 'customer' to someone who does know, be it in QR or wherever.
IMHO, that would be the professional and courteous approach.

Waffle doesn't make anyone happy.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

What did you expect from Translink? They don't operate the trains, so why would they be able to give an in depth answer that would satify you?

Given that they are supposed to be the sole point of contact (even though I could have gone direct to QR, I could not have to BT), they need to follow through.

EDIT: I would consider intentionally sandbagging the timetable to be a serious offence and I expected an explanation of how that wasn't the case when all available evidence is that it is the case.  It is now too old to follow up further.

[Golliwog]

But I mean, how much detail did you give them? Were you able to tell them exactly which train you were on? They wouldn't be able to do much otherwise. If you gave them as much detail as you posted up here (that it was a morning express train) theres not much they can do.

[somebody]

But I mean, how much detail did you give them? Were you able to tell them exactly which train you were on? They wouldn't be able to do much otherwise. If you gave them as much detail as you posted up here (that it was a morning express train) theres not much they can do.

I most certainly did give them the detail.  Going through my emails, I said it was the 7:52am Caboolture train on 4/4/11 at Indooroopilly.  It's enough.

[Golliwog]

Ok, that is enough detail. But another consideration is that most responses from the TL's online form are not aimed at people who are as tuned into the running of the network as the people on this forum tend to be. Your standard commuter isn't into the nitty gritty of the timetable. Seeing as they have said they're forwarding it onto QR, why don't you reply to them asking if they can get more detail out of QR on what was going on.

[somebody]

Ok, that is enough detail. But another consideration is that most responses from the TL's online form are not aimed at people who are as tuned into the running of the network as the people on this forum tend to be. Your standard commuter isn't into the nitty gritty of the timetable. Seeing as they have said they're forwarding it onto QR, why don't you reply to them asking if they can get more detail out of QR on what was going on.

Good suggestion.

[somebody]

Response was that it was due to trackwork not being able to be completed and leaving speed restrictions.

Oh yeah?

[somebody]

I think I may have had the same driver again.  On a Richlands-Bowen Hills train, arrived about 3-4 mins late at Indooroopilly.  At every single station, there was a pause (I estimate 5-20sec) between the guard ringing the bell and the train actually starting to move.  This adds up enough that that the train was still 4-5 mins late at Fortitude Valley despite the recovery time at Central.

[colinw]

Its not the drivers sandbagging, its the timetable.  Seem to be more TSRs around at present as well, possibly a result of the severe rainfall earlier this year?

IMHO QueenslandRail does a good job, within the limitations of their funding & TransLink. I don't see any reason to bash QueenslandRail.

[somebody]

It's not the timetable if a late running service is further delayed.  It's also not the TSRs if it takes a long time to actually get underway.

I'd have to agree that it's likely not constructive to bash QR in general, however there may be a few bad apples in the tree.

Interesting point about the extra TSRs possibly coming from the severe weather though.

[petey3801]

Who's to say there also wasn't a slow closing door on the train? Happens all the time, especially if a door is opened just before the driver closes the doors. We can't actually move until the door open tile goes out, no matter how much you wish to...

[somebody]

Who's to say there also wasn't a slow closing door on the train? Happens all the time, especially if a door is opened just before the driver closes the doors. We can't actually move until the door open tile goes out, no matter how much you wish to...

You mean a defective door which was slow at each station?  I guess that is possible.  Such defects should be fixed.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Who's to say there also wasn't a slow closing door on the train? Happens all the time, especially if a door is opened just before the driver closes the doors. We can't actually move until the door open tile goes out, no matter how much you wish to...

You mean a defective door which was slow at each station?  I guess that is possible.  Such defects should be fixed.

A slow closing door isn't a high priority to bring them out of service because some dill thought it would be funny to force a door to remain open.

[somebody]

It's not?  But every service operated by that unit would be behind schedule.  I guess there is the alternative of locking the door.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Which is usually the case depending on how slow it is once the train is at the terminus/Roma Street.

[Zoiks]

I would rather a slightly slower service then no service. If its peak hour it would probably have to continue to operate, if its offpeak then it should finish its run or swap in the city.

[Gazza]

Something that has been happening without fail every day since the new timetable started.

I take the 8.00 train from Corinda. By the time we get to Graceville the express overtakes us. But, when we get to Indooroopilly the express is still dwelling there, and it takes off again pretty much the same time as the all stopper. So despite the express running along quite a straight, fast section, and the all stopper making an additional stop from point of being over taken, the express is forced to burn up any gains.
It is not until Taringa that the express train finally gets ahead again (The two trains 'race' up to that point)...All up, a 3.5km overtaking manoeuvre.

When you look across at the express train at Graceville there are people standing in the aisles (Nothing too unbearable, but its there). So if the train, despite being handicapped with heavier loading compared to the lightly loaded all stopper, is having to 'waste' time, then clearly the timetable is too conservative.