27 Dec 2008: Queensland: Long distance rail travel is the future!

[ozbob]

Media Release 27 December 2008

Queensland:  Long distance rail travel is the future!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport users has called on Traveltrain and the Queensland Government to maintain present long distance passenger train services and consider further expansion of services.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Subsidies to Queensland Traveltrain long distance trains are both sensible and are of benefit to the whole community.  Support for the rural community particularly by the Queensland Government in maintaining these services is to be applauded.  It should also be noted that public transport in south-east Queensland is also heavily subsidised.  So is health, electricity, water, education and other transport modes.  Rarely is the true cost of road and air infrastructure, and their environmental penalties costed into those transport modes. If they were they too would show distortions of cost and subsidies. Queensland is more than just the south-east!"

"Governments are there to support their communities. Governments lost the transport plot in the 1950s and until recently have lacked the long term vision of our pioneers who laid down our basic rail network.  For example, the short term myopia demonstrated when the Gold Coast and Tweed Heads railways were closed during the 1960s and right of way lost, is now hitting home in exorbitant infrastructure costs to re-establish those lines."

"In twenty or thirty years it is highly likely that the only sustainable bulk transport mode will be electric rail.  Air and road will be subject to extreme fuel and environmental costs. Rather than pontificating about possible cutbacks, governments need to be thinking of long term needs and expanding and continuing support for rail networks.  Rail is the sustainable and environmentally friendly transport solution for Queensland and the nation."

"The long distance passenger trains in Queensland are unique.  Providing a quality tourist travel experience they are also important transport communication links for many remote towns throughout Queensland. The Sunlander, the Spirit of the Outback, the Westlander, the Inlander and the Tilt train services all value add to the economy of Queensland, directly and indirectly.  This was further reinforced with Queensland Rail's Traveltrain Holidays taking out the Major Tourist Attraction award at the 2008 Outback Queensland Tourism Awards (1)."

Reference:

1.  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1510.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[#Metro]

Rather than pontificating about possible cutbacks, governments...

Cutback, where?

[ozbob]

See --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1703.0

Long distance passenger services themselves, a number of cuts to local rail freight services eg. Mt Isa. Pending closures of lines such as Kingaroy, Dirranbandi.

[ozbob]

Minister for Transport, Trade, Employment and Industrial Relations
The Honourable John Mickel
28/12/2008

Traveltrain services feared under threat from Liberal National Party's "efficiency savings"

Transport Minister John Mickel has called on the Liberal National Party to outline how it intends to make efficiency savings on the operation of Traveltrain services to centres in country and regional Queensland.

Mr Mickel said the Opposition's Shadow Treasurer Tim Nicholls had claimed the State Government was wasting taxpayers' money by failing to run the Traveltrain services efficiently.

"Mr Nicholls hasn't provided anything to substantiate the Opposition's claims that the Traveltrain services are operating inefficiently. He hasn't provided any examples to show where money is being wasted.

"The ball is squarely in Mr Nicholls' court to specify how the Liberal National Party intends to make efficiency savings.

"Let Mr Nicholls say where and how money is being wasted, what efficiency measures the Liberal National Party would introduce, and how much money this would save.

"My concern is that when the Liberal National Party talks of achieving greater efficiency, that is code for cutbacks to train services to country and regional Queensland.

"My concern is that Mr Nicholls does not believe long-distance passenger train services deserve the funding support they currently get from the government, and he is looking for ways to reduce the amount of funding being provided.

"Who knows what might be targeted under the Liberal National Party's approach to cost cutting and from their so-called efficiency gains.

"That's why we need to hear from Mr Nicholls about how the Liberal National Party plans to make its efficiency savings. Until we do, passengers who use Traveltrain services have good reason to be concerned about what the Liberal National Party is proposing.

"Pensioners, for example, deserve to be told if under the Opposition's policy they will continue to receive their four free train trips a year and their 50 per cent fare discount on Traveltrain services".

Mr Mickel said the government remained strongly committed to funding the State's Traveltrain services. These were the Sunlander from Brisbane to Cairns, the tilt train services from Brisbane to Bundaberg, Rockhampton and Cairns, the Westlander from Brisbane to Charleville, the Spirit of the Outback from Brisbane to Longreach, and the Inlander from Townsville to Mount Isa.

"Mr Nicholls has demanded that the government explain how it will continue to deliver these Traveltrain services and provide better value for taxpayers.

"I am happy to do that. The government will continue to deliver these services by providing the funding involved.

"The government will ensure value for taxpayers' money by closely monitoring and scrutinising the Traveltrain contracts it has entered into with Queensland Rail.

"The funding involved runs to several hundred million dollars each year, but this is a commitment that the government is not going to walk away from."


==============================================================

[#Metro]

I have read the article. Brisbane times quoted $850/passenger (Brisbane to Cairns).

I think the services should be considered for pulling. Running trains for the sake of running trains, especially at $850/passenger subsidy is something I do not support. If volunteers or the community sector want to run the service, this is something I would support. Puffing Billy, in Victoria, is an excellent example of this.

It may be true that there are environmental and social benefits, but if you got someone to add them all up, I don't believe that they would add up to $850.00. Running no service means no emissions from the service, and the $850.00 saving can more than cover the carbon offset ($10/passenger) for airlines. The lines should be preserved for future use. The social benefits can be preserved with smaller subsidies to alternative modes of transit to the same locations.

Public transport may well be subsidized in other countries, in others not. But I must say, subsidizing people's holidays is not something I want to do. That $850/person could go into building new rail lines, services and stations and safety features. With that amount of money freed up, we could radically subsidize commuter transport in Brisbane. You have to think of the opportunities denied by tying that money up in the tourist rail services.

People have basic rights to Education, Healthcare, but not to holidays on long distance trains when faster and cheaper alternatives are available.

I think the Tilt Train service does have a chance for a turnaround. I know my views are not what people want to hear, but if I came and knocked on your door to ask for $850.00 subsidy for my cairns train holiday, I'm sure you would say no.

[ozbob]

No worries Tramtrain.  As has been indicated by the Minister and Premier I think the long distance passenger trains will continue, with some modifications.  I also think overall the figures are a bit rubbery, none the less QR Passenger is going to review the operations and I am sure we will see some improvements for the long haul.

Cheers
Bob

[ozbob]

Radio 4BC Gary Hardgrave followed up with an interview this afternoon on the Drive show.

Thanks for the interest Gary and 4BC!

Cheers
Bob

[Mick_L]

But I must say, subsidizing people's holidays is not something I want to do.

Long distance rail in Queensland is not provided entirely for the benefit of people going to Cairns on Holiday. With the exception of the Cairns to Brisbane and Townsville to Brisbane legs, these trains service towns that do not have the benefit of cheaper alternative means of travel.  Therefore, the services are patronised by people need to travel to and from intermediate stations along the various travel train routes. There are no cheap Virgin Blue flights from Ingham to Mackay for instance - Subsidised public transport should not be denied to people just because they are not packed into the capital cities.

I don't hear the mainstream press clamouring on about how much is money is spent to subsidise rural flights and bus runs, nor even rail freight, but significant amounts of money does flow to these sectors and should continue to do so for the benefits of regional populations.

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail click here!

Passenger slump on Queensland tourism trains costs taxpayers $2.5m a week

    by Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    June 16, 2011 12:00AM

QUEENSLAND's tourism trains are costing taxpayers $2.5 million a week in subsidies as falling patronage continues to plague the services.

The Sunlander, Tilt Trains, Westlander, Inlander and Spirit of the Outback have carried fewer than 389,000 passengers since July 2010 - 57,000 less than forecast.

Every trip taken was propped up by taxpayers to the tune of $345.03 each or the cost of a return flight to Cairns.

The poorest performing service - the Westlander - carried just 102 people a week between Brisbane and Charleville, down from 134 the previous year, while the Inlander, operating from Townsville to Mount Isa, transported 118 people weekly.

Last year, former Transport Minister Rachel Nolan questioned the viability of the services and urged people to consult with the Government if they believed the money could be spent better elsewhere.

But current Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said the travel trains were "essential" services that would continue to be subsidised.

"Given Queensland is six times the size of the United Kingdom and with major regional and rural centres, the cost of transport comes at a price," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"It's essential we keep people connected with their communities, friends and loved ones."

She said there were signs patronage was on the rise, before the summer floods and Cyclone Yasi "almost ground services to a halt for three months".

Extra efforts were now being made to boost ticket sales for the travel trains, Ms Palaszczuk said. "Queensland Rail Travel is exploring new markets to lure tourists to the state," she said.

Despite the promotional push, patronage forecasts for the next financial year are more modest than for the previous year, with a target of 435,000 passengers.

If that figure is achieved, subsidies will come down slightly to $325.20 a passenger.

Daniel Gschwind from the Queensland Tourism Industry Council said he believed "train tourism" had a bright future.

"I think in the past we haven't realised the potential of train as a travel mode and not invested in it to the same degree as in Europe and North America," Mr Gschwind said.

"There is now substantial investment being made in new rollingstock and I think it's far from over for train travel as a tourism proposition."

Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson said the LNP recognised the need to subsidise public transport, whether it was in the city or in regional areas.

[ozbob]

Blog comment:

Did anyone bother to check out the periods that the trains were not operating due to multiple weather events. This obviously affected overall patronage, so slump is not correct at all. Properly adjusted there was a real gain.

Subsidies to Queensland Traveltrain long distance trains are both sensible and are of benefit to the whole community.  Support for the rural community particularly by the Queensland Government in maintaining these services is to be applauded.  It should also be noted that public transport in south-east Queensland is also heavily subsidised.  So is health, electricity, water, education and other transport modes.  Rarely is the true cost of road and air infrastructure, and their environmental penalties costed into those transport modes. If they were they too would show distortions of cost and subsidies. Queensland is more than just the south-east!

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

16th June 2011

Long distance passenger rail comment

Greetings,

I refer to the article in today's Courier Mail (see below).

Did anyone bother to check out the periods that the trains were not operating due to multiple weather events? This obviously affected overall patronage, so slump is not correct at all. Properly adjusted there was a real gain.

Subsidies to Queensland TravelTrain long distance trains are both sensible and are of benefit to the whole community.  Support for the rural community particularly by the Queensland Government in maintaining these services is to be applauded.  It should also be noted that public transport in south-east Queensland is also heavily subsidised.  So is health, electricity, water, education and other transport modes.  Rarely is the true cost of road and air infrastructure, and their environmental and other penalties costed into those transport modes. If they were they too would show distortions of cost and subsidies. Queensland is more than just the south-east!

Governments are there to support their communities. Governments lost the transport plot in the 1950s and until recently have lacked the long term vision of our pioneers who laid down our basic rail network.  For example, the short term myopia demonstrated when the Gold Coast and Tweed Heads railways were closed during the 1960s and right of way lost, is now hitting home in exorbitant infrastructure costs to re-establish those lines.

In twenty or thirty years it is highly likely that the only sustainable bulk transport mode will be electric rail.  Air and road will be subject to extreme fuel and environmental costs. Rather than pontificating about possible cutbacks, governments need to be thinking of long term needs and expanding and continuing support for rail networks.  Rail is the sustainable and environmentally friendly transport solution for Queensland and the nation.

The long distance passenger trains in Queensland are unique.  Providing a quality tourist travel experience they are also important transport communication links for many remote towns throughout Queensland. The Sunlander, the Spirit of the Outback, the Westlander, the Inlander and the Tilt train services all value add to the economy of Queensland, directly and indirectly.  This was further reinforced with Queensland Rail's Traveltrain Holidays taking out the Major Tourist Attraction award at the 2008 Outback Queensland Tourism Awards.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

From the Courier Mail click here!

Passenger slump on Queensland tourism trains costs taxpayers $2.5m a week

    by Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    June 16, 2011 12:00AM

QUEENSLAND's tourism trains are costing taxpayers $2.5 million a week in subsidies as falling patronage continues to plague the services.

The Sunlander, Tilt Trains, Westlander, Inlander and Spirit of the Outback have carried fewer than 389,000 passengers since July 2010 - 57,000 less than forecast.

Every trip taken was propped up by taxpayers to the tune of $345.03 each or the cost of a return flight to Cairns.

The poorest performing service - the Westlander - carried just 102 people a week between Brisbane and Charleville, down from 134 the previous year, while the Inlander, operating from Townsville to Mount Isa, transported 118 people weekly.

Last year, former Transport Minister Rachel Nolan questioned the viability of the services and urged people to consult with the Government if they believed the money could be spent better elsewhere.

But current Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said the travel trains were "essential" services that would continue to be subsidised.

"Given Queensland is six times the size of the United Kingdom and with major regional and rural centres, the cost of transport comes at a price," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"It's essential we keep people connected with their communities, friends and loved ones."

She said there were signs patronage was on the rise, before the summer floods and Cyclone Yasi "almost ground services to a halt for three months".

Extra efforts were now being made to boost ticket sales for the travel trains, Ms Palaszczuk said. "Queensland Rail Travel is exploring new markets to lure tourists to the state," she said.

Despite the promotional push, patronage forecasts for the next financial year are more modest than for the previous year, with a target of 435,000 passengers.

If that figure is achieved, subsidies will come down slightly to $325.20 a passenger.

Daniel Gschwind from the Queensland Tourism Industry Council said he believed "train tourism" had a bright future.

"I think in the past we haven't realised the potential of train as a travel mode and not invested in it to the same degree as in Europe and North America," Mr Gschwind said.

"There is now substantial investment being made in new rollingstock and I think it's far from over for train travel as a tourism proposition."

Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson said the LNP recognised the need to subsidise public transport, whether it was in the city or in regional areas.

[#Metro]

This is the THIRD year running we have heard this rubbish. Courier Mail must have it on annual recycle or something. Last time around it was a trip to Paris/Vanuatu.

Isn't the subsidy ratio for these services BETTER than that for the entire TL network?

[ozbob]

Indeed, the annual TravelTrain bash TT.  I am struggling to comprehend how they can get it so wrong with the data interpretation as there were months when the trains were not actually running.  I would hope that the Minister for Transport considers an additional response to this article.

The average public transport commuter in SEQ would do at least (48 x 10) trips per week.  That is a direct subsidy of >$2400 ...

[Jonno]

Ministers response on 4BC failed to mention that car travel is also subsidized (will die waiting for Courier Mail to do that analysis), train is safer and road trauma costs 40 billion a year.  Of course patronage is falling as everything in our society and media says "drive because it is cool, shows your freedom and oh so sexy".

[#Metro]

To be fair, I have used these services and I was NOT a happy customer. I took the train up, but flew a plane back, and the plane at the time was about the same cost.

One problem with HSR or any rail up north is that track tends to be washed away in the Summer months due to seasonal rain/flooding/cyclones. The time I spent on the TiltTrain I was wondering "this thing does not go any faster than QR CityTrain!"

You need speed, especially for long distance. I have little doubt if the speed was increased somehow that this operation would become much more competitive with air/bus which also run this corridor.

No use having head in the sand about the issues. I'm not at all happy with the tilt service.

[ozbob]

And as track infrastructure is slowly improved, straightening, amplifications, adequate passing loops and so forth that will all come.

Many folks are not so concerned with the journey time, they are happy to enjoy the comfort and facilities whilst watching the cane fields and the like.
Some of my fondest journeys were in the Spirit of Progress Buffet car eating pies ... lol

In my Army days we often travelled on the Sunlander.  Really enjoyed that too.

[#Metro]

"I think in the past we haven't realised the potential of train as a travel mode and not invested in it to the same degree as in Europe and North America," Mr Gschwind said.

Right on. SPEED!!! Make it go 250 km/hour - 300 km/hour and then lots more people will use it.

Many folks are not so concerned with the journey time, they are happy to enjoy the comfort and facilities whilst watching the cane fields and the like.
Some of my fondest journeys were in the Spirit of Progress Buffet car eating pies ... lol

While I am inclined to agree with you, if the issue is getting more people, increasing the quality of service by improving travel times will result in BOTH current passengers PLUS new passengers- an improvement. In other words, you won't lose those people who like "slow travel" by making the train faster. You'll keep them and then add some...

"There is now substantial investment being made in new rollingstock and I think it's far from over for train travel as a tourism proposition."

It has GOT to be faster than QR CityTrain. Good grief, the commuter services in Victoria with the V/Locity reach faster speeds. The Gold Coast train on the way to Ormeau from Beenleigh reaches higher speeds...

Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson said the LNP recognised the need to subsidise public transport, whether it was in the city or in regional areas.

YAWN. Note the lack of any solid action or alternative proposed. BORING.

[johnnigh]

I believe that there will, one day in the not-too-distant future, be a Tilt Sunlander. The new QR is making lots of progressive noises about actually going after 'customers'. Even recruiting ex-airline staff to change the on-board cabin-crew culture and standards

If current problems with QRNational's supply of dodgy locos to drag the elderly Travel Trains continues, it may happen sooner rather than later.

[Stillwater]

We scrutinise the government in this forum for the reason it is the government and is in power and, therefore, its members exercise that power on behalf of the people.  The opposition's role is to hold the government to account and offer alternative policies.  The mealy-mouthed remarks from opposition are worrying, especially when they have no policies.  The task of developing a full set of policies between now and when the election is likely to be called is virtually impossible.  What's likely is policies full of gratuitous comments, lacking in detail.  The opposition does not want to be held to account.

Recently we had the Member for Glasshouse, Andrew Powell, saying the duplication of the Sunshine Coast Line should be brought forward to 2018, 'but not necessarily funded'.  What's he hoping will pay for it - monopoly money?  We have heard the line about not revealing policies until closer to an election.  The reality is the opposition doesn't have any.  Campbell Newman, a man not elected to parliament, has declared null and void all opposition policy.  We have to go back to the days of Oliver Cromwell for a precedent.  Mr Powell's comment shows that he is lobbying within his own party for his wishes to be included in any transport policy.  There is little to indicate that any policy formation is going on behind the scenes.  That's the worrying bit.

Now we have Scott Emerson saying that the opposition acknowledges the need for passenger rail subsidies in city and country areas alike.  Because the opposition has no transport policy, Mr Emerson can't go further and say 'the opposition commits to continuing all Travel Train passenger services, but will look to efficiencies in their operation while offering competitive fares.'  Or something like that.  Or, if it believes the Westlander should terminate at Roma to curtail costs, the opposition should have the guts to defend that position.

Saying nice things (and innane things such as wanting to duplicate the SCL earlier without budgeting for it) in order to be all things to all people just doesn't cost the mustard this close to a state election.  There should be an orderly disclosure of policy from about the end of November onwards.  Dumping policies - all of them - on the electorate during the three weeks of an election campaign does not allow for public scrutiny of the detail. (Perhaps that is what the LNP wants).  The LNP risks its policies being swamped and overshadowed by stuff the government announces, and then there will be the sideshows of the Queensland Party and the Australian (Katter) Party, which seem to be manifestations of the old Country Party.

Alternatively, Don't You Worry About That, as Sir John Bjelke-Petersen was fond of saying.

[BribieG]

Courier Mail 16 June
QUEENSLAND's tourism trains are costing taxpayers $2.5 million a week in subsidies as falling patronage continues to plague the services.

The Sunlander, Tilt Trains, Westlander, Inlander and Spirit of the Outback have carried fewer than 389,000 passengers since July 2010 - 57,000 less than forecast.

Every trip taken was propped up by taxpayers to the tune of $345.03 each or the cost of a return flight to Cairns.

The poorest performing service - the Westlander - carried just 102 people a week between Brisbane and Charleville, down from 134 the previous year, while the Inlander, operating from Townsville to Mount Isa, transported 118 people weekly.

Last year, former Transport Minister Rachel Nolan questioned the viability of the services and urged people to consult with the Government if they believed the money could be spent better elsewhere.


But current Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said the travel trains were "essential" services that would continue to be subsidised.

"Given Queensland is six times the size of the United Kingdom and with major regional and rural centres, the cost of transport comes at a price," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"It's essential we keep people connected with their communities, friends and loved ones."

She said there were signs patronage was on the rise, before the summer floods and Cyclone Yasi "almost ground services to a halt for three months".

Extra efforts were now being made to boost ticket sales for the travel trains, Ms Palaszczuk said. "Queensland Rail Travel is exploring new markets to lure tourists to the state," she said.

Despite the promotional push, patronage forecasts for the next financial year are more modest than for the previous year, with a target of 435,000 passengers.

If that figure is achieved, subsidies will come down slightly to $325.20 a passenger.

Daniel Gschwind from the Queensland Tourism Industry Council said he believed "train tourism" had a bright future.

"I think in the past we haven't realised the potential of train as a travel mode and not invested in it to the same degree as in Europe and North America," Mr Gschwind said.

"There is now substantial investment being made in new rollingstock and I think it's far from over for train travel as a tourism proposition."

Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson said the LNP recognised the need to subsidise public transport, whether it was in the city or in regional areas.



I wonder if this is a true decline or if it's just a (possibly temporary) effect of cheap plane fares? We always travelled to Cairns to see the rellies on the Sunlander but last trip we flew for a lot less. A lot of pensioners in particular used the Trains as straight transport, not tourisim.

[Zoiks]

Im more curious as to the cost to run a train per km.

[colinw]

Same old crap from the Courier-Mail, and the usual lack of analysis.  Even a cursory look would reveal that our long distance trains were out of commission for extended periods due to the floods & Cyclone, with the Westlander the worst hit. In reality patronage is stable or even increasingly slightly.  As for the comments against the article saying "flying is faster" - I challenge people to find a commercial flight to many of the places served by our trains.

[ozbob]

During the financial year the Westlander was out of action for around 4 and a half months.  The other services were on and off for around 3 months, mainly off.  This makes the whole premise of the article misleading IMHO.  Interpreting the figures properly would suggest that patronage would have been well up without the weather events.

Interesting, I am advised in the last 4 weeks since the recent new advertising campaign for Travel Train sales of over $1 million dollars above the normal level have been generated. With the new train consists on the way for the Sunlander, and given a better run weather wise, the projections for the 2011/12 will be well exceeded is my guess.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The Cairns/Rocky Tilts started to stop parts/all services in stages from about September-March IIRC. Not to mention the Cairns fleet has been running at 50% (Level crossing derailment in late 2008 - Might be back in service later this year). There were several derailments that blocked parts of the line. There was a cement train that wrecked about 70-100m of track on a tight curve between Cairns/Townsville. There were delays in fixing it because of the constant rain and the heavy vehicles had trouble getting to the derailed rollingstock in the soft ground, mud and slush surrounding the area. A Pacific National partially loaded coal train derailed, blocked the track, took out overhead supports/powerlines and blocked off the NCL in December. Rain once again delayed some repairs.  Flooding had been affecting parts of the line since November-January as washouts, balast and track had to be repaired. Cyclone Yasi closed parts of the line for nearly all of February. The Cairns Tilt hit a buckle shortly after the NCL reopened after Yasi and did some slight damage to the Tilts lead bogies.

[ozbob]

Thanks HTG.  Let's assume a loss of only 25% of train operations ( in effect 3 months).

Total pax achieved despite that loss was 388K.  (Previous year 433K)  Now 388/3= 130K.

Then a corrected pax would 388 + 130 = 518K  which is an corrected increase of 130/433 x 100 = 30% growth.

In actuality the loss of train operations was greater than 25% so the figures are actually very good.

I expect > 550K this next year (greater than the forecast of 435K)

[ozbob]

612 ABC Brisbane Drive Presenter Craig Zonker conducted an interview on Travel Train services in Queensland. 

Thanks for the opportunity 612 to present our views and for the discussion!

[Zoiks]

Tramtrain, were you not arguing in another thread against HSR. Now in this thread your arguing for it?

[HappyTrainGuy]

I can't remember the dates exactly but there was also an incident around October-ish where a very large front/side section of fibreglass from the driving cab was peeled open and ripped off on the Cairns-Roma Street run but that was fixed pretty quickly IIRC. There also might be futher growth when the second of the Cairns TiltTrains return to service later in the year and the introduction of the Cairns TiltSunlander. Hopefully the earlier postponed Rocky repairs don't effect too many services. I think a couple of the electric Tilt maintainence schedules fits into this nicely too.

EDIT. No respected rail operator would think about running trains at 200kph when there is wooden sleeper twisting tracks with unprotected level crossings. You just have to look at some of the damaged that has been caused to our rollingstock from level crossings to hitting other locos in yards. Until there's dedicated interstructure and dual lines available don't expect trains to be going very fast.

[#Metro]

Tramtrain, were you not arguing in another thread against HSR. Now in this thread your arguing for it?

I am not concerned about vehicle. To the uninitiated this may seem confusing. One day it may seem that I like trams, the other day I don't. I VALUE MOBILITY. A faster train service North-South Byron-Tweed-Brisbane to Cairns would be mobility improvement over the current options IMHO for reasons previously explained.

What mobility means ---> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5958.0

I think HSR is much more viable where distances are shorter, not longer and where air services have a much more spread demand (you would not fly from Brisbane to Coolangatta or Byron for example, the demand is too low for a direct point to point service; too many air stops would make it time uncompetitive due to multiple takeoff and landings, but a train could do it...)

[Stillwater]

TT, over the distance between Brisbane and Byron Bay, HSR would have only three stops -- one in Brisbane, another at Gold Coast (Coolangatta Airport) and another around Ballina, I would have thought.  How would you propose that people in between would get to these stations?  Bus?  Slow train stopping all stations, collecting people to drop off at Coolangatta etc.  And there may be only 6-8 HSR trains a day.  How does that improve mobility?  It does not make sense that someone would use HSR to get from Coolangatta to Bruisbane at twice the fare they pay now using Citytrain and a go-card.

[Gazza]

And there may be only 6-8 HSR trains a day.

Much more then that surely? It's not like there's only 6-8 Flights a day between BNE-SYD.

It does not make sense that someone would use HSR to get from Coolangatta to Bruisbane at twice the fare they pay now using Citytrain

I would if it meant avoiding sitting on a 1.5 hour journey.

[SteelPan]

         AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR          THAT annual bloody CM story gets me so mad.  They never tell people how much we all subsidise ROADS - trucking tycoons in this country have built corporate empires on the back on taxpayer road funding.  They never share the profits!

[ozbob]

http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/4bc-blog/trains-in-trouble/20110616-1g4jk.html

4BC

Trains in trouble
Posted by: 4bc.com.au | 16 June, 2011 - 9:33 AM

4BC Breakfast: Queenslands tourism trains are costing taxpayers $2.5 million a week in subsidies as falling patronage continues to plague the services. Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk talked with Peter and Mary this morning saying the travel trains were "essential" services that would continue to be subsidised.

[ozbob]

http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2011/06/travel-train-subsidies.html?site=brisbane&program=612_drive

612 ABC Brisbane Drive

Travel train subsidies

Travel train subsidies

16 June 2011 , 5:55 PM by Simon Scoble

If you had to travel to Cairns, what would you rather do - fly, drive, or catch the train?

What if there was a deal, a special, where the state government would pay 345 dollars towards your trip - if you go by train?

The deal already exists with figures out today showing the government is spending 2-point-5 million dollars a week of taxpayers money subsidising tourist trains in Queensland.

Hear from Robert Dow from the public transport lobby group Rail Back on Track here: