Plaque re Airtrain 'Time Capsuale' and handover date to QG

[Sunbus610]

Hi gang

Not sure if this has been posted before, apologies if it has, but below is a pic of the plaque re the Airtrain 'time capsule' and which includes the handover date to the Queensland Government.

Cheers
Dave

[#Metro]

Only another quarter of a century until decent frequency arrives at Brisbane...

[BrizCommuter]

A BrizCommuter blog post is coming soon on how much the private AirTrain is really costing the taxpayer.

[colinw]

That's not a plaque, its a tombstone.

"Here lies frequent, affordable public transport to the airport. R.I.P. 2001"

[justanotheruser]

That's not a plaque, its a tombstone.

"Here lies frequent, affordable public transport to the airport. R.I.P. 2001"

So where was the frequent affordable PT to the airport before 2001? I didn't live in brisbane then but did visit often and never came across any such thing

[Otto]

So where was the frequent affordable PT to the airport before 2001? I didn't live in brisbane then but did visit often and never came across any such thing

Before the Airport was moved, It used to be serviced by Train ( Pinkenba Line ) and bus ( route 160 )

[mufreight]

That's not a plaque, its a tombstone.

"Here lies frequent, affordable public transport to the airport. R.I.P. 2001"

So where was the frequent affordable PT to the airport before 2001? I didn't live in brisbane then but did visit often and never came across any such thing

There were shuttle airporter buses operated from the CBD and the Gold and Sunshine coasts and a regional Toowoomba service, all operated a fares considerably lower than those charged by Airtrain even when allowance is made for inflation.
The services provided covered all flights and if there were incoming flights in the early morning they were also met by additional services unlike Airtrain they provided the required levels of service which if they had failed to meet the needs of the traveling public they had no business and could not survive. 

[colinw]

It was the shuttle buses Mufreight mentions that I was thinking of.  I used to use them to/from the Transit Centre, and change to rail at Roma St.  Fares were quite reasonable, and they were generally there when you wanted them.  I think they were run by CoachTrans?

CoachTrans do still offer an airport shuttle bus, but with a fare of $15 to Brisbane CBD.

P.S. when I first noticed this thread, I misread "plaque" as "plague"

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-much-is-airtrain-costing-taxpayer.html
How much is Airtrain costing the taxpayer?

[justanotheruser]

That's not a plaque, its a tombstone.

"Here lies frequent, affordable public transport to the airport. R.I.P. 2001"

So where was the frequent affordable PT to the airport before 2001? I didn't live in brisbane then but did visit often and never came across any such thing

There were shuttle airporter buses operated from the CBD and the Gold and Sunshine coasts and a regional Toowoomba service, all operated a fares considerably lower than those charged by Airtrain even when allowance is made for inflation.
The services provided covered all flights and if there were incoming flights in the early morning they were also met by additional services unlike Airtrain they provided the required levels of service which if they had failed to meet the needs of the traveling public they had no business and could not survive. 

Well I remember in 1994 my brother having to get a taxi from the airport to the city because the shuttle (coachtrans) had finished for the day. We had both used these shuttles frequently. Allowing for inflation I would not have thought there was too big a dare difference between then and now.

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-much-is-airtrain-costing-taxpayer.html
How much is Airtrain costing the taxpayer?

Do you realise you changed the average taxi fare mid article and that you put the decimal point in the wrong place. So at $60 average taxi total would be 6,600,000 while at original average $50 total would be $5,500,000.  Although I reckon a more realistic figure of trips per day would be closer to 150-200. I am simply assuming you would not get that many on every single flight. It also is not uncommon for them to travel in groups especially if they are working as a group which could explain high amount on one plane.



Having said all that it is still alot of money although I have my doubts that a decent service would get them out of a taxi. Why? Simply because it is most likely an entitlement so they will get one no matter what.

[justanotheruser]

Just had a quick look and it costs $15 to get from roma st to airport regardless of airtrain (go card or paper ticket) or coachtrans shuttle.
Greyhound coaches range from $12.26 to $25.74.

I'm not convinced that other airtrain is such the rip off compared to other transport methods.  In sydney there is the 400 bus that goes to the airport which is cheaper than the train and airport bus & shuttles. It just goes half way round the world.

[BrizCommuter]

That's not a plaque, its a tombstone.

"Here lies frequent, affordable public transport to the airport. R.I.P. 2001"

So where was the frequent affordable PT to the airport before 2001? I didn't live in brisbane then but did visit often and never came across any such thing

There were shuttle airporter buses operated from the CBD and the Gold and Sunshine coasts and a regional Toowoomba service, all operated a fares considerably lower than those charged by Airtrain even when allowance is made for inflation.
The services provided covered all flights and if there were incoming flights in the early morning they were also met by additional services unlike Airtrain they provided the required levels of service which if they had failed to meet the needs of the traveling public they had no business and could not survive. 

Well I remember in 1994 my brother having to get a taxi from the airport to the city because the shuttle (coachtrans) had finished for the day. We had both used these shuttles frequently. Allowing for inflation I would not have thought there was too big a dare difference between then and now.

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-much-is-airtrain-costing-taxpayer.html
How much is Airtrain costing the taxpayer?

Do you realise you changed the average taxi fare mid article and that you put the decimal point in the wrong place. So at $60 average taxi total would be 6,600,000 while at original average $50 total would be $5,500,000.  Although I reckon a more realistic figure of trips per day would be closer to 150-200. I am simply assuming you would not get that many on every single flight. It also is not uncommon for them to travel in groups especially if they are working as a group which could explain high amount on one plane.



Having said all that it is still alot of money although I have my doubts that a decent service would get them out of a taxi. Why? Simply because it is most likely an entitlement so they will get one no matter what.

Have changed the first figure from $50 to $60, but there is no decimal place error.

10 passengers/flight x 440 flights x $60 fare x 250 working days = $66,000,000

[justanotheruser]

Have changed the first figure from $50 to $60, but there is no decimal place error.

10 passengers/flight x 440 flights x $60 fare x 250 working days = $66,000,000

oh yeah forgot the ten per flight

[somebody]

Have changed the first figure from $50 to $60, but there is no decimal place error.

10 passengers/flight x 440 flights x $60 fare x 250 working days = $66,000,000

Pretty sure that QLD govt workers are now required to use Airtrain if it is available, so the 440 flights figure is too high.

[mufreight]

The majority use taxis or government cars to or from their office for airport trips.
Just for the record Coachtrans was the original airporter service operator from not only the Transit Centre but also covered the hotels and motels in the CBD.
When the original owners of Coachtrans sold out to southern interests (Sita) they cut back on the levels of service much to the delight of the local taxi operators removing many of the early and late services, no longer having any connection with Coachtrans in its current form I am not aware of the present services provided.

[somebody]

The majority use taxis or government cars to or from their office for airport trips.

I think they should refer to the rules.

I think the requirement to use Airtrain only came in last year.  The above link only applies to DPI, but I am pretty sure there is something similar whole of government.

[BrizCommuter]

Pretty sure that QLD govt workers are now required to use Airtrain if it is available, so the 440 flights figure is too high.

Required to, but the majority don't.

[#Metro]

Why would you do something that does not make sense?

I don't blame them.

If the QLD Government came out and said "all public servants must walk to the airport" as a cost-cutting measure
I would flout the rules too. Ridiculous!

I you have to make edicts to prop up the system, the system is probably of such terrible rotten apple quality that nobody wants to use it!

[somebody]

Pretty sure that QLD govt workers are now required to use Airtrain if it is available, so the 440 flights figure is too high.

Required to, but the majority don't.

Maybe, but I don't think you can work on the assumption that the rules are going to be broken.  Enforcement of these rules may well pick up.

[justanotheruser]

Why would you do something that does not make sense?

I don't blame them.

If the QLD Government came out and said "all public servants must walk to the airport" as a cost-cutting measure
I would flout the rules too. Ridiculous!

I you have to make edicts to prop up the system, the system is probably of such terrible rotten apple quality that nobody wants to use it!

It is standard practice for edicts to be made even in private companies about all sorts of things including the phone system when optus first started. Rdicts were issued in government and private sector not to use optus.

[SteelPan]

Personally, I believe Airtrain was delivered using the best model - private build, with a contracted operator.
Airports are not something, most people, most days use and alot of users will never use any train connection.  Therefore private capital risk, with a users pays return is fair to the taxpayer.  The state (ie, taxpayer) wins now AND in the long run.   

[somebody]

Personally, I believe Airtrain was delivered using the best model - private build, with a contracted operator.
Airports are not something, most people, most days use and alot of users will never use any train connection.  Therefore private capital risk, with a users pays return is fair to the taxpayer.  The state (ie, taxpayer) wins now AND in the long run.   

With all the arguments already put to the contrary, please explain?

[O_128]

Personally, I believe Airtrain was delivered using the best model - private build, with a contracted operator.
Airports are not something, most people, most days use and alot of users will never use any train connection.  Therefore private capital risk, with a users pays return is fair to the taxpayer.  The state (ie, taxpayer) wins now AND in the long run.   

With all the arguments already put to the contrary, please explain?

I know we all complain about the cost of the airtrain but compared to a taxi its cheap and compared to parking its nothing. However what is needed is some form of discount for 2 or more people to keep it competitive.

[#Metro]

I would agree there.

At the moment the Airtrain is effectively refusing to take 2 people for $30 and settles for $0.
The problem is how to get a pass for 2 people when both have Go Card... hmmm...

[somebody]

Personally, I believe Airtrain was delivered using the best model - private build, with a contracted operator.
Airports are not something, most people, most days use and alot of users will never use any train connection.  Therefore private capital risk, with a users pays return is fair to the taxpayer.  The state (ie, taxpayer) wins now AND in the long run.   

With all the arguments already put to the contrary, please explain?

I know we all complain about the cost of the airtrain but compared to a taxi its cheap and compared to parking its nothing. However what is needed is some form of discount for 2 or more people to keep it competitive.

Yes, but SteelPan asserted it was built on the best financial model.

I say that the model is DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB!!! 
One reason is of course a significant amount of money has been spent upgrading the access roads, significantly more than what was required to build the whole line.

[#Metro]

One reason is of course a significant amount of money has been spent upgrading the access roads, significantly more than what was required to build the whole line.

Every time I go to Brisbane Airport, it seems like there is an extra bridge and an extra lane has been added since I was last there. The amount of roads in that area (where nobody lives I might add) is just crazy.

[somebody]

One reason is of course a significant amount of money has been spent upgrading the access roads, significantly more than what was required to build the whole line.

Every time I go to Brisbane Airport, it seems like there is an extra bridge and an extra lane has been added since I was last there. The amount of roads in that area (where nobody lives I might add) is just crazy.

Not only that, but the whole notion that you would want to get to an Airport by car is pretty crazy.  What are you going to do with the car once you are there? It makes a one man job into a two man job, as someone then has to drive the car back home.  Or to the airport.

[justanotheruser]

Personally, I believe Airtrain was delivered using the best model - private build, with a contracted operator.
Airports are not something, most people, most days use and alot of users will never use any train connection.  Therefore private capital risk, with a users pays return is fair to the taxpayer.  The state (ie, taxpayer) wins now AND in the long run.   

With all the arguments already put to the contrary, please explain?

Well I tend to get a shuttle bus as it is easy. Yes it costs $60 each way but seem as kids don't pay for the suttle bus but have to pay full fare on airtrain It works out the same (next year bus will be cheaper as we would have to pay for youngest child on train as well). Also no problem with getting luggage to station. When comiming home all tired it is nice to know you can sleep all the way home no hassle.

One reason is of course a significant amount of money has been spent upgrading the access roads, significantly more than what was required to build the whole line.

Every time I go to Brisbane Airport, it seems like there is an extra bridge and an extra lane has been added since I was last there. The amount of roads in that area (where nobody lives I might add) is just crazy.

Not only that, but the whole notion that you would want to get to an Airport by car is pretty crazy.  What are you going to do with the car once you are there? It makes a one man job into a two man job, as someone then has to drive the car back home.  Or to the airport.

Actually using some of the budget parking options real cheap parking and parking company takes you to airport on mini-bus it can be cheap if you have a family. One person no question train is cheaper.

[somebody]

Cab is cheaper than parking options for just about everyone though.  Not if you are coming from Toowoomba of course.  I guess if only doing a day trip then it may be better to park.

[colinw]

Brisbane Times -> Brisbane Airport lags behind other capitals

Interestingly, many of the comments mention Airtrain's woeful level of service.

[HappyTrainGuy]

What do you expect. Its privatly owned so they can charge what ever they like and have what ever services they want and theres little anyone can do about it. Because there's no alternative they can easily get away with it. The rail line was built on the cheap side hence the single line. When they hand it over to QR when the contract is up it then becomes their problem with running a more frequent and reliable service. Yay for selling off all the states assets

[#Metro]

It was never a state asset to begin with, just like the Melbourne SkyBus isn't public either.
The price of the ticket is understandable, but there isn't anything stopping the state funding more services if it wanted to.

And that's the rub- you DON'T need to own it to have it subsidised for more services, just in the same way that TransLink doesn't own, and doesn't need to own the entire Brisbane bus fleet.

[Zoiks]

Whats the speed limit along the single section of the airport line track?

[somebody]

70-80km/h IIRC

[colinw]

I think the maximum is 90, but I won't swear that under oath

[petey3801]

50 from Airport Junction till just after the start of the single track, up to 70, 90 before the Gateway, 100 along the straight (past the logistics part). Gradually steps down to 40 for the points into International. 100 after International platform, down to 60 2/3 of the way up to Domestic, 50 for the points and reduces down to 25 before the platform (procedures state 20km/h at the platform).*


*This is a guide only, there are a couple other boards, but this is generally it.

[SteelPan]

The State was never going to build Airtrain if they had to pay for it.  Not politcally sexy or rewarding enough - this side of 2050 or so.  Private sector was prepared to stump the cash - so people get the rail to use - and they are charged for it.  The State also gets the line, probably earlier than they would have built it themselves.

Dollars spent on road systems in the area are a totally seperate govt matter.

(One question, when the Airtrain line goes to the State - does the State have to pay anything for it??)