Grafitti damage to rolling stock during floods

[ozbob]

Main stream media are running stories on the graffiti damage done to the trains when they were positioned on high ground.  Estimated One million dollars worth of damage.

Clearly this is in a similar class to looting.  Full cost recovery (even if it takes 10 years), fines and gaol is needed now. 
The community is tired of the crap.

I have avoided taking any photographs of trains with damage.  Has been difficult at times such has been the widespread damage.

[#Metro]

Hand them the scrubbing brush! 
So much money wasted on cr*p. If they want to paint "art" why don't they sign up to the official art/mural team?

[Stillwater]

The level of vandalism is disgusting.  Morons took advantage of the fact that these trains were parked temporarily above floodwaters, but in accessible areas.  We are publishing pictures in the media asking people to identify flood victims.  Perhaps we should obtain stills from video surveillance of these so-called artists and publish their faces -- Do you know this idiot, report him (almost always males) to police.  Unfortunately, taxpayers have to pay for trains to be cleaned and also for the razor wire cages in which trains have to be parked overnight.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Just pathetic. Go and put your 'art' on your own fences, house and cars if you have any.

Not a bad idea Stillwater. I was tempted to stake out a few trains and photograph these delinquents in the act (having pro gear really helps making night look like day ) on the North Coast line but I had family to attend to.

Imagine if Translink said the reason for fair increases were because of this. There would be a ton of p%ssed  of people that would want their heads on a stake. The law needs to be tougher on these offenders.

[Stillwater]

A million dollars to get rid of the tags and artwork from trains painted during the flood is not small change.  That could fund a small makeover (painting and some new furniture, signs) for a single station.  I wonder what is the annual cost QR incurs from dealing with the graffiti across the network?

[BribieG]

Maybe someone could find out where judges and magistrates live, graffiti their homes and cars and this may re-educate them to giving out realistic sentences instead of dozing through the trial and then giving good behaviour bonds.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

19 January 2011

Greetings,

http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1295383079

Ipswich Line delays

The Ipswich Line may experience delays of up to 30 minutes due to a traffic accident at the railway crossing on Station Road at Wacol.

==================

The tough run continues.  Bridge strikes, fools driving into boom gates and the like.  It is time the Queensland Government finally heard the message.  These idiots should not be on the roads. Full cost recovery for the damage and delays they cause, licence suspensions 2 years for a first offence, second life.  Dangerous fools who drive around or through activated rail crossings (i.e. race trains or drive around activated boom gates) should be suspended for life.

It is pleasing that attempts will be made now to recover the costs of the damage done by the graffiti grubs.  The tagging of the trains whilst they were moved to high ground during the flood (they are  normally kept in wire cages to help protect them from the grubs) is almost in the same league as looting.  It was very wise to move the trains to high ground to ensure trains operational after the floods.  It is time now to sort out the grubs.

The community is tired of the failure to sort these issues.

After pleading for a number of years, some bridge protection devices have been installed of late. These have reduced the bridge strikes at those locations.

Time to sort out the rest.

Best wishes
Robert

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

From the Brisbane mX 18 January 2011 page 2

Vandals cop legal spray

[Dean Quick]

Anyone who vandalises is a low life but to commit these crimes whilst the community is reeling during a crisis is simply despicable. This is taking away valuable resources from where it is needed most. If these scumbags are indeed caught I think it is time the law made an example of them. Full cost recovery and gaol terms would be a good start as well as being made to clean their mess.   

[BrizCommuter]

These vandals should be easily caught via social networking sites and IP addresses.

QR are doing the right thing by threatening to sue for cost recovery.

[HappyTrainGuy]

If only it was that easy to obtain

[Golliwog]

I think it was this mornings radio, but I heard they caught 4 people with regards to the vandalism during the flood.

[mufreight]

These vandals should be easily caught via social networking sites and IP addresses.

QR are doing the right thing by threatening to sue for cost recovery.

The key will be not to threaten but to actually take legal action both for the criminal offence and to ensure full cost recovery, no more bleeding hearts about poor disadvantaged psychologicaly deprived persons, time to make these grubs fully responsible for their actions, some jail time might cultivate some sense of responsibility.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Slap them with trespassing too.

@Golliwog. So far only two have been charged in relation to vandalism to trains near Taringa Railway station. Both men were in their early 20's.

[#Metro]

I wonder how expensive it would be to cover the train in bus-wrap. It seems to be cheap, BT's buses are covered in it, and it also seems to stick to metal as well as glass. Why not do it? Metro has something similar. Whatever you do, DO NOT GIVE THEM A BLANK CANVAS.

It frustrates me to no end to see graffiti, and then QR come along with green paint, cover it, leaving a perfectly blank canvas which a few days later, gets covered again, and then QR comes along again... cycle repeats... if you keep doing what you do and you get the same futile result, don't they think that it is time to try something different? So much money wasted...

[Stillwater]

Where grafitti is bad, QR sponsors artwork and murals (such as around Nundah Station).  The strange 'code of honour' among the vandals means they see this as legitimate street art and don't put their tags over it.  The murals at railway stations serve the same purpose.  In the worst spots, QR is planting trees in front of the green noise barriers.  The taggers like to have their handiwork seen, so go elsewhere.

Way back when, the railway painters used to paint a base coat over the grafitti, then used two or three different colour paints applied to the bottom of a sandshoe with a busy pattern, then 'walked' the shoe all over the wall.  The end result was a busy, hypnotic mish-mash of colour.  Any grafitti applied was lost amid the chaotic pattern.

[ozbob]

Courier Mail 22nd January 2011 page 67

Vandals will be made to pay

LAST week while parts of the state were under water or bracing for the worst, Queensland Rail was putting in place a plan to reduce the impact on its trains. This included moving our trains to higher ground outside of the usual stabling yards. While people were banding together in one of our darkest hours, vandals attacked, causing more than $1 million of damage. Half of our City network fleet was vandalised. Two people have been arrested and we will pursue offenders civilly for compensation, no matter their age or circumstances. Our clean-up crews are working 24 hours a day to remove the vandalism. This enormous task could take several weeks. I apologise to anyone who has to witness this graffiti until our units are returned to the high standard our customers expect.

Paul Scurrah, chief executive,
Queensland Rail, Brisbane

[Gazza]

In the worst spots, QR is planting trees in front of the green noise barriers.  The taggers like to have their handiwork seen, so go elsewhere.

I like this idea actually...They've attempted it on the Copenhagen Metro: http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=copenhagen&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=57.115056,135.263672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Copenhagen,+Denmark&ll=55.655478,12.631837&spn=0.001126,0.004128&z=19&layer=c&cbll=55.655578,12.631862&panoid=8xvqpuss7OmN6JslYWorZA&cbp=12,37.57,,0,-3.83
Would look wonderful when all grown in.

[justanotheruser]

Hand them the scrubbing brush! 
So much money wasted on cr*p. If they want to paint "art" why don't they sign up to the official art/mural team?

sign up? where? how? I've never seen anything personally that indicates where you can sign up for this. Of course the next glaringingly obvious question is do they accept anyone who applies? If not how many of the graffitti people would be turned down. Most of them I suspect.

Anyone who vandalises is a low life but to commit these crimes whilst the community is reeling during a crisis is simply despicable. This is taking away valuable resources from where it is needed most. If these scumbags are indeed caught I think it is time the law made an example of them. Full cost recovery and gaol terms would be a good start as well as being made to clean their mess.   

They have not taken away any resources from anything. If the graffitti was cleaned up before tracks and bridges were repaired then someone should be facing the sack for incompetence. You need to prioritise how you spend the money. I think it is disgusting that it was cleaned up before making sure every bit of rail was fully functional first.

If they really cared about graffiti why do they normally leave trains in very easily accesable areas usually? Yeah sure ok almost all the trains are secure but not all.

If only it was that easy to obtain

You got it in one. See a lawyer friend of mine explained it to me. A court may award damages but then it is still up to you to get the money of the person and they can delay that a million ways and make it cost so much that it no longer becomes worth your time to do so. So are there any reasonable and practical suggestions out there?

One possibility is like they do in some places you just leave it. I understand that it is dangerous and can cause problems for other people as well but I see it as more important to try and hold our government accountable for human rights abuses. How many people realise that Australia is being called to face the UN for human rights abuses. Surely if we want to see change then if we start with these big issues then often other smaller issues vanish. I've seen that so often.   We have all talked about the wonderful community spirit after the floods but it is starting to return to every man for himself just like before. Deal with that bigger issue and I reckon the graffitti issue will almost dissapear completely.

[#Metro]

sign up? where? how? I've never seen anything personally that indicates where you can sign up for this. Of course the next glaringingly obvious question is do they accept anyone who applies? If not how many of the graffitti people would be turned down. Most of them I suspect.

Here http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/Community/Pages/PositivePartnership.aspx
Here http://svc169.wic021v.server-web.com/artforce/default.asp

[#Metro]

They have not taken away any resources from anything. If the graffitti was cleaned up before tracks and bridges were repaired then someone should be facing the sack for incompetence. You need to prioritise how you spend the money. I think it is disgusting that it was cleaned up before making sure every bit of rail was fully functional first.

If they really cared about graffiti why do they normally leave trains in very easily accesable areas usually? Yeah sure ok almost all the trains are secure but not all.

Those who are not a QR Authorised employee or contractor and and who have no legal reason to be on the trackside, should not be there. Nobody without lawful excuse should be in a train corridor. It should be just like being on the airside at an airport- sterile area.

It costs money to buy the paint stripper and solvents, these are an unnecessary cost QR must budget for and could well do without. The solvents are also toxic and hazardous to both health and environment.

Just don't deface the rail corridors! Simple!
Stay out of them!

If anything, I wish QR spent time painting coloured dot patterns or some easily repeatable pattern across rail corridors along with plants so that we commuters do not have to look at rubbish while going to work in the morning. If they were Mona Lisas or Picassos in the rail corridor I might change my mind, but they are not.

[Gazza]

They have not taken away any resources from anything. If the graffitti was cleaned up before tracks and bridges were repaired then someone should be facing the sack for incompetence. You need to prioritise how you spend the money. I think it is disgusting that it was cleaned up before making sure every bit of rail was fully functional first.

Dont follow...Making sure the rail was all functioning first?
So you're saying a train buffer has the skills to be sent out and fix track up or something instead?

[mufreight]

Mandatory jail time and seizure of assets which would then be auctoned to recover costs and if the assets do not cover the court awarded costs then a court order deducting a set weekly amount from their source of income be it wages or the dole for any residual balance.
The message would get aroung pretty quickly and the grafitti would quickly become not worth the personal price to these idiots.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Justanotheruser,

The main reason for the trains being graffittied was because they were stowed along the main rail corridor. Access was as simple as walking off the platform edge or in some cases actually done on the platforms so there was alot of trains covered head to toe in paint. The industrial strength solvents that they have to mix are very toxic and expensive as tramtrain said. Also the whole network/brisbane wasn't effected by floods. I remember watching the news, seeing parts of west end under water and the endless lines of stowed trains then when I walked outside all I could see was blue sky, the sun shining and a EMU wizzing by in the background. The Ipswich line/Yerongpilly area was the only main concern with water in parts over the tracks so repairs and inspections could be done very quickly. Come Monday people still had to get to work and use the trains so work still had to go on like usual. Aswell, not everyone has the same qualifications so its pointless sending people everywhere for something they have little or no experience in. They might of aswell called the IT support guys to come have a look at why the track points weren't switching. Maybe they should have tried turning it on and off again (A few here will get that ).

[petey3801]

Justanotheruser,

The main reason for the trains being graffittied was because they were stowed along the main rail corridor. Access was as simple as walking off the platform edge or in some cases actually done on the platforms so there was alot of trains covered head to toe in paint. The industrial strength solvents that they have to mix are very toxic and expensive as tramtrain said. Also the whole network/brisbane wasn't effected by floods. I remember watching the news, seeing parts of west end under water and the endless lines of stowed trains then when I walked outside all I could see was blue sky, the sun shining and a EMU wizzing by in the background. The Ipswich line/Yerongpilly area was the only main concern with water in parts over the tracks so repairs and inspections could be done very quickly. Come Monday people still had to get to work and use the trains so work still had to go on like usual. Aswell, not everyone has the same qualifications so its pointless sending people everywhere for something they have little or no experience in. They might of aswell called the IT support guys to come have a look at why the track points weren't switching. Maybe they should have tried turning it on and off again (A few here will get that ).

A Bo-Bo?

[ButFli]

I know this is not the popular opinion on RailBOT but I am going to say it anyway.

I saw a grafitied 160 or 260 go across the Merivale Bridge the other day. The entire trailing carriage had been painted up - windows and everything. The colours were so bright and the artwork so skillful. Truly a sight to behold.

I know that it's illegal to be painting trains like this. I know it's dangerous to be entering the rail corridor etc. Why can't we have some legal paint jobs like this? They've done it on a Tilt Train. They do it in other countries. Why can't we do it here? I want to see a 260 SMU painted up in the style of New Mexico Rail Runner except with a scrub turkey instead of a roadrunner. Maybe we could have a kangaroo one too!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aPtHw1L4m9g/Sw22e3AbVyI/AAAAAAAAAeE/b4MJ3URApIs/s1600/railrunnerexpressnews112509.jpg

No one is going to grafiti something as cool as that!

[ozbob]

I agree ButFli, we have suggested in the past painting the trains with some attractive murals and the like.  

-->
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3933.0

Media Release 5 June 2010

SEQ: Painted trains

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said it might be time to consider a new livery for our Citytrains.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track members have noticed what seems to be increasing graffiti attacks on Citytrain rolling-stock.  This wanton vandalism is costly. One defence mechanism might be to brighten up the trains in a manner done for the buses.  Some rolling stock could be themed. For example Queensland Week would have been a great opportunity to deck some trains out in Queensland themes."

"Below is a photograph of a Metro Train in Melbourne.  The livery is bright and enhances the appeal of public transport."

"With the change over to Queensland Rail, the time is right for some innovation which in turn may lessen the impact of vandalism."

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org



Photograph R Dow 8th January 2010

Some interesting artwork in Japan.  -->  http://freshpics.blogspot.com/2008/12/painted-trains-in-japan.html

[Stillwater]

Hummmm .... goodbye Gympie Flyer ( also, the name Cooroylander goes in the new timetable).  Hello to a painted-up Scrub Turkey.   

[justanotheruser]

Mandatory jail time and seizure of assets which would then be auctoned to recover costs and if the assets do not cover the court awarded costs then a court order deducting a set weekly amount from their source of income be it wages or the dole for any residual balance.
The message would get aroung pretty quickly and the grafitti would quickly become not worth the personal price to these idiots.

I could be wrong but I think this would need cooperation from both the federal government and centrelink. Centrelink is not a government dept but rather a statutary body (excuse spelling). This means the government does not have as much control over rules regarding centrelink. I am sure you are not allowed to garnish (deduct money) from centrelink payments unless you are centrelink itself forcibly collecting a debt because payment plan was not being followed.

Also some of these people may have little or no assests. For example if they drive a car the car may belong to another person and therefore be untouchable.

[justanotheruser]

They have not taken away any resources from anything. If the graffitti was cleaned up before tracks and bridges were repaired then someone should be facing the sack for incompetence. You need to prioritise how you spend the money. I think it is disgusting that it was cleaned up before making sure every bit of rail was fully functional first.

Dont follow...Making sure the rail was all functioning first?
So you're saying a train buffer has the skills to be sent out and fix track up or something instead?

Of course I'm not making any such claim and for you to say so is just plain silly. I can understand if you didn't understand what I meant but to use ridicule suggests you have no intention of trying to understand. Just in case you are interested though I will try and explain.

The claim was made money for more urgent work was not available because of money needed to clean graffiti

My response is that would only be the case if decision makers want it to be that way.
The decision makers could easily have said while it would be nice to clean the graffitti it is more important to hold onto the money and spend it on repairs.  If that was decided then the money would be where it was urgently needed.

Or are people here suggesting it is ok to bag out politicians for making poor decisions about priorities but it is not ok to be critical of company executives/management for spending money on wrong priority?

Justanotheruser,

The main reason for the trains being graffittied was because they were stowed along the main rail corridor. Access was as simple as walking off the platform edge or in some cases actually done on the platforms so there was alot of trains covered head to toe in paint. The industrial strength solvents that they have to mix are very toxic and expensive as tramtrain said. Also the whole network/brisbane wasn't effected by floods. I remember watching the news, seeing parts of west end under water and the endless lines of stowed trains then when I walked outside all I could see was blue sky, the sun shining and a EMU wizzing by in the background. The Ipswich line/Yerongpilly area was the only main concern with water in parts over the tracks so repairs and inspections could be done very quickly. Come Monday people still had to get to work and use the trains so work still had to go on like usual.

I realise the trains were not in the train yard however I think this is in response to me saying make sure they are in the yard. If you go back you will see that I was talking about normal times not during the flood. I have in the past mucked around on parked trains (which I am not proud of) but could easily do again. So as I say if they were serious hey would prevent it from being so easy. Simple things like on locked gates make sure the chain is pulled tight so people can't just walk sideways through the gap but rather have to risk cutting themselves on barbed wire. A good deterent in my opinion.

Aswell, not everyone has the same qualifications so its pointless sending people everywhere for something they have little or no experience in. They might of aswell called the IT support guys to come have a look at why the track points weren't switching.

Once again this is argument by ridicule.  I realise all this but say I need to pay the rent and I want to go to the pub. The time is 10pm sat night and you can't pay the rent till monday when the office opens.
Do you
a) go to the pub and spend your rent money and not have it on monday or
b) hold onto the rent money till monday

What I am suggesting is that you prioritise things. So in the above example choose option b.  likewise they could choose not to spend the money on cleaning graffitti so as soon as a qualified person is available to carry out repairs they can besent instead of cleaning the graffitti and then finding no money to pay someone to do the repairs. It ain't rocket science and businesses do this kind of thing every day. Its called managing your cash flow. For example newsagencies try to make sure hey don't have other big payments coming out of their bank account on the same day that lotto office will automatically deduct money spent on gambling products that week. If you don't plan you would run out of money temporarily.

Maybe they should have tried turning it on and off again (A few here will get that ).

The IT Crowd

[Gazza]

The claim was made money for more urgent work was not available because of money needed to clean graffiti

I don't see how the graffiti clean up would impact on getting the network operational....I didn't think large organisations worked like that (micromanaging the funding of individual tasks). Wouldn't they just call people into work and say "this needs fixing", "this needs cleaning etc", and just pay for it out of their recurrent expenditure budget to the amount necessary?

It's like if there is a day to day issue, like a peak hour track fault or a bit of graffiti they discover in the morning. Its not as if they'd have to run back to management every time it happens to get money to do it...They just send someone out to fix the issue ASAP.

Post flood, wouldn't they same thing have happened, just on a larger scale?
All hands on deck so to speak.

[justanotheruser]

sign up? where? how? I've never seen anything personally that indicates where you can sign up for this. Of course the next glaringingly obvious question is do they accept anyone who applies? If not how many of the graffitti people would be turned down. Most of them I suspect.

Here http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/Community/Pages/PositivePartnership.aspx
Here http://svc169.wic021v.server-web.com/artforce/default.asp

So nowhere where these people are likely to find it

[justanotheruser]

The claim was made money for more urgent work was not available because of money needed to clean graffiti

I don't see how the graffiti clean up would impact on getting the network operational....I didn't think large organisations worked like that (micromanaging the funding of individual tasks). Wouldn't they just call people into work and say "this needs fixing", "this needs cleaning etc", and just pay for it out of their recurrent expenditure budget to the amount necessary?

It's like if there is a day to day issue, like a peak hour track fault or a bit of graffiti they discover in the morning. Its not as if they'd have to run back to management every time it happens to get money to do it...They just send someone out to fix the issue ASAP.

Post flood, wouldn't they same thing have happened, just on a larger scale?
All hands on deck so to speak.

possible which further strengthens my argument that money was not taken away from where it was "more urgently needed"

[shiftyphil]

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=190000477714639

More charges following vandalism on trains

Police have charged two men with a number of wilful damage (graffiti) offences as part of an operation targeting a group responsible for graffiti on Brisbane City Council and Queensland Rail property.

During Operation Juliet Dismantle, members of the joint Brisbane City Council and Queensland Police Service Taskforce Against Graffiti, identified a number of tags on trains that were unattended during the January flood disaster which they matched to vandalism in other areas of Brisbane.
...