Ferny Grove to Samford Rail Link

[SteelPan]

Yes, yes, I've heard all the "reasons" why we can't do it...now, when are we going to do it?   

[Gazza]

When trains become good at climbing hills.

[SurfRail]

When the pattern of settlement in Samford supports the cost needed to implement it.

Viz:

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves etc etc

[Stillwater]

Maybe its time to hit developers for higher infrastructure levies as a condition of them being allowed to develop new housing estates.  They land bank old farms for years, get them rezoned, sub-divide and sell them to people who have to live in the boonies in order to afford a house.  The state government (taxpayers) wears the cost of the transport infrastructure to serve those people.  A higher infrastructure levy would result in more expensive land, yes (and a higher price per block), but may alter the economics and the industry into looking at more imaginative ways to flog someone a house.  The downside is increased density -- the trade-off for having more people per km of sewer, electricity wires and train lines/bus routes.

[#Metro]

Maybe its time to hit developers for higher infrastructure levies as a condition of them being allowed to develop new housing estates.  They land bank old farms for years, get them rezoned, sub-divide and sell them to people who have to live in the boonies in order to afford a house.  The state government (taxpayers) wears the cost of the transport infrastructure to serve those people.  A higher infrastructure levy would result in more expensive land, yes (and a higher price per block), but may alter the economics and the industry into looking at more imaginative ways to flog someone a house.  The downside is increased density -- the trade-off for having more people per km of sewer, electricity wires and train lines/bus routes.

If you tax developers more, they build less than they otherwise would have. It's also a narrow tax base because the amount of new development compared to the existing housing stock is rather small (perhaps a few percent a year). The beauty of a land tax is that is has to be paid whether the land is being developed or not - hence there is no escape. If you don't develop, you still have to pay and hence incentives to build are not reduced. With more people paying (larger tax base), the rate can be very low.

[newbris]

This is starting soon along the old rail alignment:

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/S/Samford-to-Ferny-Grove-Cycle-Link.aspx

[Gazza]

Here's a curveball for ya SteelPan, sometimes people can like trains/see them as useful, but at the same time can say that certain lines are a waste of money.

[aldonius]

Reminder that Samford currently receives a grand total of two inbound & two outbound TransLink bus services per day (plus a amount of non-TL school services, by BBL).

Onto the subject of a park and ride out there, it will need a full-span bus service to be worth it.

Also, the Village is zone 5, FG station is zone 3. I'm not even that sure people would consider (an additional) 12 minutes and 8km of not-yet-particularly-congested driving a fair trade for an extra $1.30...

[James]

Samford doesn't even really have much of a bus service right not as-is. There's no need to extend the railway line out that way until that area can at least sustain a highly patronised BUZ service (something which isn't possible given its current density). I mentioned this in the Gatton thread and I'll say this again - there is no need to be expanding rail out to small rural towns while Yeronga doesn't even have PT running at 15 minute frequency 6am - 9pm 7 days a week.

But you asked when, so I'll give you an answer. 2090 at the earliest is my thoughts. We'll all be very old by then!

[SteelPan]

1) re trains climbing hills....Google "tunnels" sometime!

2) I think you fella's are in a bit of a time-warp on Samford - it's a "go go go" region, with A LOT more to come!   

[Gazza]

Go go region?
So are they putting up major shopping centers and university campuses and office towers like at Springfield?

[aldonius]

Funny story on the shopping centre - Woolworths tried and hit major local opposition.

Regarding further development - there's some happening (e.g. opposite the old CSIRO site) but the lots for those are still about five times bigger than those in the village. Same deal with the stuff at Sky Dr, or the existing Highvale development in and arounds Showgrounds Dr.

In any event, I thought they were almost out of town water allocations? (I've been hearing this one for ever, so it may not be true).

[James]

1) re trains climbing hills....Google "tunnels" sometime!

2) I think you fella's are in a bit of a time-warp on Samford - it's a "go go go" region, with A LOT more to come!   

Go go go region? So 'go go go' that it has only 20 feeder peak-only bus services per week?

[Gazza]

Funny story on the shopping centre - Woolworths tried and hit major local opposition.

Regarding further development - there's some happening (e.g. opposite the old CSIRO site) but the lots for those are still about five times bigger than those in the village. Same deal with the stuff at Sky Dr, or the existing Highvale development in and arounds Showgrounds Dr.

In any event, I thought they were almost out of town water allocations? (I've been hearing this one for ever, so it may not be true).

See that's the thing. You'd try and build a station with a TOD, and you could be sure locals would kick up a stink.
So instead a Samford station would end up being a big park and ride a few ks away from an existing one, and you'd be spending hundreds of millions to do so.

If people want to live in low density acreage with a village town center that's fine, but dont expect heavy rail infrastructure to be coming your way in preference to areas that would use it more.

[DayboroStation]

I think there definitely is a need for the rail line to be restored to Samford. The only issue I have is affordability to rebuild the required infrastructure.

A few weeks ago I caught a train to Ferny Grove during PM peak and was surprised at the high volume of cars on Samford Road heading outbound to Samford (not to mention the lack of commuters on the train). Perhaps the high volume of cars is a reflection on an ineffective bus service? I'll let others speculate on this.

As for the Samford to Ferny Grove Cycle Link, to quote the project brief from the TMR website:
"It is anticipated that the 8.3km cycle route will encourage cycling and in doing so, help to ease congestion, provide a safer road environment, reduce carbon emissions, provide tourism benefits and help create a healthier community."

At least TMR acknowledge that there is a problem with congestion. I'm not sure spending 3.3 million dollars on a bike path will be the solution to the congestion issue that has been identified, but it will at least give weekend recreational bike riders an alternative to using Samford Road.

[Gazza]

Isn't that the standard quote by tmr when doing any infrastructure "will reduce congestion".

The volume of cars is not really a reflection of a poor bus service, rather the fact that the whole pattern of development is low density acreage houses , with culdesacs that seem to average 700m long.

[SurfRail]

If it can't support even a regular off-peak bus service, it sure as buggery can't support a railway.

[aldonius]

I do think if there was a Park & Ride near the village (instead of a hypothetical second storey on the Ferny Grove carpark) and a full-span (if infrequent) bus service, then that bus service would do no worse than the 397 or 398.

The current service is stuck in chicken-egg syndrome as far as I'm concerned.