Closure of Tennyson Rail Line

[joey guide]

I am a mother of a Brisbane State High student. Though there are only six services running on the Tennyson line, these services are an essential link to students both in the western and southern suburbs. Students from Brisbane State High, Sommerville House, St Laurence's. Milperra State High, and Saint Aidan's all use these services. The removal of these services will lengthen an already long day for these children.

So the facts are that services as stand are:

Morning Services

Departs Corinda 8.07am, Arrives South Bank 8.26 via Tennyson line taking 19 mins
Departs Corinda 8.27am, Arrives South Bank 8.45 via Tennyson line taking 18 mins
Departs South Bank 7.48am, Arrives Corinda 8.03 via Tennyson line taking 15 mins

Taking the new timetable into account the same trip at a similar time would be:

Departs Corinda 7.58am, Arrives Roma St 8.18am Change Trains Depart Roma St 8.21 Arrive South Bank 8.27 via Ipswich and Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines taking  29mins
Departs Corinda 7.58am, Arrives Roma St 8.18am Change Trains Depart Roma St 8.31 Arrive South Bank 8.37 via Ipswich and Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines taking  39mins (cannot catch a later service as the train runs express trough Corinda)
Departs South Bank 7.37am, Arrives Roma St 7.43am Change Trains Depart Roma St 7.45 Arrives Corinda 8.05 via Ipswich and Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines taking 28 mins

Afternoon Services

Departs South Bank 3.18pm, Arrives Corinda 3.32pm via Tennyson line taking 14 mins (generally too early for BSHS kids to catch)
Departs South Bank 3.45pm, Arrives Corinda 4.01pm via Tennyson line taking 16 mins
Departs Corinda 3.52pm, Arrives South Bank 4.12pm via Tennyson line taking 20 mins (not sure what patronage on this one as it seems too late for kids from St Aidans/Milperra)


Taking the new timetable into account the same trip at a similar time would be:

Departs South Bank 3.17pm, Arrives Roma St 3.32pm, Change Trains Depart Roma St 3.24pm Arrives Corinda 3.44 via Ipswich and Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines taking 27 mins (assuming connecting train is caught)
Departs South Bank 3.47pm, Arrives Roma St 3.53pm, Change Trains Depart Roma St 4.00 Arrives Corinda 4.20 via Ipswich and Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines taking 33 mins
Departs Corinda 3.58pm, Arrives Roma St 4.18pm, Change Trains Depart Roma St 4.22pm, Arrive South Bank 4.28pm via Ipswich and Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines taking  30mins (Likely that kids would catch an earlier service)

The daily commute for my daughter from Corinda to South Bank return could go from 35 minutes to 1 hr and 12 minutes.

There was talk of a plan to replace trains services with buses, though the staff talking to me were unsure of the route and end point but it seemed likely that if student used these buses they would have to use both a bus and a train service to travel between Corinda and South Bank. My view is that this would not be heavily patronized by current users of this service.

I would appreciate hearing others opioins and if you support the continued operation of the Tennyson Line please give feedback to Queensland Rail.

[STB]

Advice I've received from the consultations is that the trains that have been taken out will be replaced by route 104 services (with possible new terminus of O'Keefe St Buranda to access the SE Busway).  The problem with having the Tennyson services is that you lose two paths on both the Beenleigh line and the Ipswich line at the same time, and with the Merivale Bridge almost at capacity, any freed paths is critical for the rest of the southern network.

So in a way I can see why it's neccessary to remove the Tennyson trains, although I guess it might be reinstated when CRR is built (hopefully).

[somebody]

The bus they are referring to is the 104 - Corinda - PA Hospital.

You are indeed correct that a bus/train or bus/bus trip would be required.  There is also the 105/108 service, but that doesn't reach Corinda, and neither does the Great Circle 598/599 service.

To be honest, I don't see much reason to keep these services as they use up valuable paths over the Merivale Bridge in peak for less than 10 people at Tennyson, and a handful of through commuters.

HTH

[STB]

The bus they are referring to is the 104 - Corinda - PA Hospital.

You are indeed correct that a bus/train or bus/bus trip would be required.  There is also the 105/108 service, but that doesn't reach Corinda, and neither does the Great Circle 598/599 service.

To be honest, I don't see much reason to keep these services as they use up valuable paths over the Merivale Bridge in peak for less than 10 people at Tennyson, and a handful of through commuters.

HTH

Agreed.  I do remember having a bit of a argument with the planners at the consultation that for those students they would need to travel backwards in order to travel forward just to at least get them thinking about that, but I am strongly in preference that the removal of the Tennyson services will provide a greater improvement elsewhere, ie: mostly the Merivale Bridge.  Sometimes you have to put in a negative in order to gain a positive.

[ozbob]

Welcome Joey Guide,

I have raised this with the rail planners at a number of timetable sessions.  The advice received is that the 104 bus will be beefed up.  They (the planners) seem to think that the majority will go around, and some will continue to travel by rail/bus.

It is not ideal I agree.  The fundamental issue is a system straining, particularly the southern line.  I have long been a supporter of services via Tennyson, but I a must admit I am not optimistic that in the revamp of 2011 there is much chance of via Tennyson services being maintained.  Have certainly tried though.

Having said that, I am confident that down the track there will be regular via Tennyson services, particularly when the Cross River Rail project is brought in.  I know that it little comfort for the practical needs of your children and the other students who do use the present services in considerable loadings now.

I think the best option is to go around by rail, even though a longer journey.  Frequency  will be good and I am sure the school requirements are being considered in the structure of both western and southern lines.

Sorry, not more hopeful ..

[STB]

I must ask though, with these extra students who would've otherwise used the Tennyson services, would this impact on the loadings on the Ipswich trains in a negative way?

[somebody]

The major problem with going via Roma St is the unsatisfactory frequency counter peak there.

Doh!  It has to be said.

[ozbob]

I must ask though, with these extra students who would've otherwise used the Tennyson services, would this impact on the loadings on the Ipswich trains in a negative way?

You bet it will. Possibly the regular heaviest loaded train on the system (bar football etc.) is the 3.38pm Ippy out of Roma St.  A train to be avoided if at all possible ... it is packed, and I mean packed with students.  When I have raised this I have received assurances that loadings will be considered, both ways.  Talk is cheap ... remains to be seen what happens.

There is concern with this matter and I know more than one local has raised their concerns directly.

[colinw]

Sadly, until such time as CRR is operating, southside slots via the Merivale bridge are just too precious to waste on any "via Tennyson" service.  It really is up to TransLink to ensure that the replacement buses and transfers at Roma St are up to scratch for these particular journeys.

Once CRR is open, I firmly believe that some* of the Merivale bridge capacity freed should go to a regular service via Tennyson - perhaps Doomben to Corinda like used to run until 1993 or so. This would gel nicely with retention of the original island platform at Yeerongpilly, and would work well with Tennyson station being adjacent to the Yeerongpilly TOD (as long as Tennyson gets extended to 6 cars).

Incidentally, I used to live in Sherwood, and thought it would have been nice to have had another station on the Corinda to Yeerongpilly line somewhere in the vicinity of Sherwood Rd & Jerrold St.  From my time living there I got the distinct impression that you did not tend to see a lot of people from anywhere east of Oxley Rd using the train, and a station in that area - equidistant from Corinda & Sherwood stations - might go some way to address that.

* = The reason I say "some" of the Merivale bridge capacity should go to "via Tennyson" is because Cleveland needs significant frequency improvements, and Merivale Bridge may have a role to play for future Browns Plains / Flagstone services as well.

[joey guide]

I see the need to free up bridge slots and I would be happy with the 104 bus, if it's planned extended service replicated the train service being removed, ie it went to the busway stations at South Bank and the Cultural Centre. A Buranda extension just doesn't cut it. It would mean most children would catch a servise on the Ipswich line to Corinda, then the 104 service to Buranda then a train service to South Bank/South Brisbane. They would need to make several connections and if the bus gets caught in congestion they would miss the train conection, and be late.

So it would be taking choice A (Train/Bus/Train) or choice B (Train to Roma St/ Train to South Bank) with higher likelihood of making a connection, I think most will make choice B, making extra 104 services pointless for these commuters.

I would also like to know numbers for these services. They run a 3 car service and I would think at least 50% of seats are used on the Corinda 8.27am service.

[somebody]

The other option would be to run via Tennyson to Moorooka and change there, of course.  I would question the level of demand for this.

I'm surprised by the 50% of seats taken, however even that is a low utilisation of a Merivale Bridge path, about 13% compared to a crush full 6 car train.

[Gazza]

The major problem with going via Roma St is the unsatisfactory frequency counter peak there.

Doh!  It has to be said.

My favourite strategy when "going the long way round" is to just board at South Bank or Cultural Centre, and take the first bus heading for Roma St.

[#Metro]

Hi there Joey Guide, thanks for coming on to the forum and raising this with RailBOT.

I have looked at the following from the TransLink journey planner; perhaps others could double check this, but it builds on Gazza's suggestion. (NB: For some reason I could not see 111 Roma St - 8 Mile Plains bus services in there, not sure why this is the case...)

Anyway, these are the results I got from using TL's Journey planner:

8.04 am Catch Shorncliffe Express from Corinda Station
8.21 am Roma Street Station

8.31 am Roma Street Busway (Route 66 towards Wooloongabba)
8.40 am South Bank Busway

The journey will involve a transfer to a bus at Roma Street and take longer; I have not included walking time from the station. I would encourage you to check the TL planner that the above suggestion works. It looks like catching any train to Roma Street and then any bus bound for the SE busway is the way to go.

I agree that the route 104 needs upgrading and frequency boosts and a route alteration to attract more passengers to it. Hopefully TL will provide a decent service that at least matches current rail standards (every 30 minutes, all day including weekends). We can only hope.

Thanks again for raising this issue with us.

[#Metro]

RailBOT has a thread about bus improvements, this one http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4888.0 is dedicated for route 104

[ozbob]

Media release 18 December 2010

SEQ: Please improve bus route 104 services if Tennyson rail services are axed

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org), a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters asks TransLink to consider improvements to bus route 104 (Corinda to PA Hospital via Tennyson) particularly if Tennyson rail services connecting the Beenleigh and Ipswich lines are axed as flagged in the draft 2011 rail timetable for the Ipswich line (1,2,3).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The Route 104 is an 'around town' bus service which connects Corinda, Tennyson, Yeerongpilly and the PA Hospital, and it fills in for the Tennyson rail services when they do not run."

"RAIL Back on track understands that the 104 bus route is currently under review."

RAIL Back on Track suggests that in order to provide a decent level of service if all rail services are removed, services run:

* Every 15 minutes between 7 - 9 am in the morning peak hour
* Every 15 minutes between 4 - 6 pm in the afternoon peak hour
* At a standard 30 minute frequency during off-peak times
* The last service to be at 7 pm

"This would only require the addition of a minimal number of bus services to the current timetable to reach this level of service. For example, there is already 15 minute frequency between 7 - 8 am between the current 104 bus services and the Moorooka bound morning train."

Other considerations could include routing via Fairfield Road and the inclusion of stops at:

* UQ Lakes
* PA Hospital Busway Station
* Park Road RAIL Station
* Buranda Busway Station

"Such improvements would improve the legibility of the service, give the route a chance to attract more patronage and allow onward connections to Cleveland, Beenleigh, Gold Coast, Eight Mile Plains/Logan and Carindale through a single transfer at Park Road and Buranda."

"The current Route 104 service simply does not offer this high level of integration and connection with the rest of the wider network, and a high level of connection and integration is essential for such 'around town' bus services which do not enter the CBD."

"Potential extension into the CBD via the SE Busway could also be considered."

"RAIL Back on Track asks TransLink to please consider engaging with Route 104 and Tennyson line passengers while reviewing these services. Providing a decent standard of service will ensure proper connections at key locations throughout the network, and a reasonable alternative for those who may well lose their rail service."

References:

1. http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/services-and-timetables/timetables/101018_104.pdf

2. What to do with route 104?  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4888.0

3. Closure of the Tennyson RAIL line  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5095.0

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[awotam]

"The other option would be to run via Tennyson to Moorooka and change there, of course."
Surely this would be worth considering? Run the existing services as a "shuttle" between Corinda and either Moorooka or Yeerongpilly. Change there to existing Beenleigh line services. More direct than going into Roma St and back out again. Not sure of Beenleigh line timetable but wouldn't think it would take any longer?

[Golliwog]

But that would block a track for at least 8 minutes while you turn the service around, which in peak would basically be the same as running it over the bridge anyway.

[somebody]

But that would block a track for at least 8 minutes while you turn the service around, which in peak would basically be the same as running it over the bridge anyway.

Not if you continue to Kuraby, either in service or out of service.

[somebody]

Is there any reason this needs to be done now?  Couldn't you just make the train which reaches Darra at 6:24am terminate at Corinda.  All other trains terminate at Corinda, so could use platform #1, and not impact on the Ipswich line at all?  I'm not sure what will happen to these services on the Beenleigh line?  Will they be extended south of Yeerongpilly?

[somebody]

Is there any reason this needs to be done now?  Couldn't you just make the train which reaches Darra at 6:24am terminate at Corinda.  All other trains terminate at Corinda, so could use platform #1, and not impact on the Ipswich line at all?  I'm not sure what will happen to these services on the Beenleigh line?  Will they be extended south of Yeerongpilly?

Just got off the phone from Translink about this one.  Tennyson trains are to be made Yeerongpilly starters/terminators, except for the Mitchelton-South Brisbane-Tennyson-Sherwood-Bowen Hills AM train.  This will no longer accept passengers from Roma St, at least according to the call centre person.  This will leave a 20 minute gap to South Brisbane/South Bank/Park Rd in the height of the AM peak, from 8:00 to 8:20am ex-Roma St.  This train (8:11@Roma St) was standing loads, so I'd hate to see the 8:20am train after this change.

EDIT: Correction, the 8:11@Roma St will still run.  It's the 5:56@Roma St which won't run anymore.  Probably ok.