612 ABC Brisbane Breakfast - Transport Minister answers questions

[ozbob]

10th March 2011

Breakfast with Spencer Howson
5:00am - 8:00am

--> Transport Minister answers your questions

[somebody]

Didn't seem to be a very good listener did she?

At least she came across as interested in PT, and seemed to take the Great Circle on Sunday idea on board.

I don't understand why the Gold Coast line would be the next one to have a revamp?  That doesn't make any sense.  Without doing something about the Airtrain and/or the Robina stabling, there is little that can be done here.

[#Metro]

I thought she did really well.

But if I were the minister, I would be very very concerned. There is a gigantic latent demand for public transport- you heard the people in redlands and the cleveland line asking for duplication. EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE is going to be asking for boosted rail service and more public transport.

The trigger point- now that peoples bills of every description have increased- you name it, it has gone up - the petrol price only needs to change to put huge pressure on the network. Remember, the network is not coping now-- how is it going to cope if something like Melbourne scenario happens- a massive and sustained sudden shift to public transport came out of the blue, with no obvious cause, and put the entire system under huge amounts of strain.

[somebody]

There is a gigantic latent demand for public transport- you heard the people in redlands and the cleveland line asking for duplication.

Yes, I had to go back to listen to it again to catch it, but the minister pretty much fobbed it off.

[somebody]

Actually, if there is to be an improvement for school students on the Caboolture line in the PM, this isn't covered in the draft timetable.  Maybe there is a worthwhile improvement?  I'm not holding my breath though.

I wonder if this is a good time to raise a lot of things which happened to the bus system in the previous minister's time which weren't very good, perhaps as examples for something along the lines of the "Transport policy going off the rails release" a short while ago.

[Jonno]

This says it all
railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5552.0

[Gazza]

Ugh about that woman from Yeerongpilly worried about flood waters, she seems capable of reading the reference design to know the location of the exit shaft, yet she skips over the sections about flood gates in the tunnels and baffles at station entrances.

[Fares_Fair]

Good news about the Minister's attendance at the CRG meetings and creating them for the Gold and Sunshine Coast's.
Also getting the CEO of TRANSLink to attend is great also.
I must give credit where credit is due but ...

100,000 seats for PT, equivalent to 40 trains. (or how about 6 A380 aeroplanes) ?
Comparing apples with oranges now ?
Couldn't quite follow the logic there.

There certainly isn't 40 extra trains !
I wonder how many for the Sunshine Coast line there are ?

and what about rapid transit for the single track Sunshine Coast line (one of the top 3 growth areas of the state).
And where is the planning and PT infrastructure for Palmview and Caloundra South (approx. 50,000 persons) ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Sunbus610]

Gee it was good to hear that lady raise the issue to Minister Palaszczuk as to why the Great Circle Line 598/599 still doesn't operate on a Sunday. To think a Sunday service has never even been trialed before, for a few months or so, just to see how well patronage goes and yet we've had Sunday trading around Brisbane quite a few years now!!

[somebody]

There certainly isn't 40 extra trains !
I wonder how many for the Sunshine Coast line there are ?

I think she meant 40 extra train services thanks to the Richlands branch.  Actually, that seems a pretty low number for weekly, could be daily.

[colinw]

It is disappointing that she fobbed off the Cleveland line duplication, and once more focused on the Gold Coast line getting yet another upgrade.

I have nothing against Gold Coast line as such - and would welcome extension and duplication of that last bit of single track - but surely it is time that it is recognised that it is inefficient and just plain unacceptable to have major stretches of single track in our commuter rail network.

In my opinion the immediate priorities should be, in order excluding projects already committed like Springfield, Kippa-Ring, Ferny Grove duplication:

1. Sensible frequencies (rail & bus, including GCL) using infrastructure we already have (plus any tweaks to make it work, e.g. works at Shorncliffe or Sandgate, new crossovers, etc.)
2. Beerburrum - Landsborough duplication.  Enough of this intransigence.  Bl**dy well fix it NOW!  And I mean RIGHT NOW, before CRR or anything else.
3. CRR MUST PROCEED
4. Then do Cleveland line duplications, line extensions, new lines, etc.

Ideally there should be no single track in the system, other than perhaps Airport Junction to International, but right now the focus has to be on providing the best service we can with what we have, and fixing the most glaring deficiencies in the system.  That means the Landsborough duplication, Sunshine Coast has been copping a raw deal for far too long. I don't even live up that way, but would be really annoyed if - for example - the Kuraby to Kingston triplication happened before the Landsborough duplication or CAMCOS stage 1 to Caloundra.  We've had an embarrassment of riches in new transport projects down here in the south, the whole time the far northern end of the system gets continually shafted.

It seems just plain silly seeing how much money was thrown at Kuraby triplication for minimal service improvement, or Varsity Lakes, or the impotent stage 1 light rail to nowhere, when the nationally important Sunshine Coast section of the NCL gets sod all.

[somebody]

While I agree with some of what you are saying, I am comfortable with the concept of single track sections.  What I want to see gone, though, are "precision crosses".  What I mean here are crosses like what currently occur at Glass House Mountains, Beerwah, Thorneside and Wellington Point.  It goes without saying (but I'll say it) that the "dance of the trains" which occurs with crosses north of Landsborough must end.  Bustitution north of Landsborough is preferable to this.

I think triplication to Kingston and duplication of the Coomera-Helensvale section would only need to be done with an increase to 10 minute frequency.  Let's hope this doesn't occur anytime soon.  I'd much rather CRR, and some quading from the Yeerongpilly portal to somewhere around Altandi.  Needs to be a fairly long section of quadding to allow the coasties to overtake an earlier Beenleigh line train.

I am thinking we need to say something about the suggestion of the Gold Coast line timetable review.  It requires one or more of: Improvements in the Airtrain timetable, upgrades to the Beenleigh stabling, Coomera-Helensvale duplication & Kingston triplication or significant dead or near dead running.  While the timetable could and should be made more homogenous, that is the limit of achievability on current infrastructure, without spending (wasting) significant money.

[#Metro]

money money money money
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Where is it all going to come from to do all of this?

The financial funding really needs to be re-thought. Where is the cash going to come from? Other states are coming up with astronomically expensive competing proposals too (Melbourne Metro, Sydney Rail tunnels) and Infrastructure Australia is being seen as a an ATM for which these projects are justified on. And we haven't even got to the metros "wish list" for Brisbane yet.

Congestion tolling and road user charges along with re-direction (see Jonno's ideas) to replace all current motorist charges are the Elephant in the room IMHO. Its a bit hard to say with any great clarity about what should happen on this front, but there is just no way all these upgrades can be funded - it seems impossible with the funding the way it is now.

If only we were spending those billions on motorway constructions on fixing up the core rail system and unblocking bottlenecks...
and this is also one of the reasons why the multi-billions wanted for the Very Fast Trains idea all around Australia would be much better spent locally on local city transport... 

[somebody]

money money money money
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

There would be plenty of money if more people used the service.  As it is now, it is seen as a money pit with few votes in it.

[somebody]

Part of me thinks that it doesn't matter what they do.  The result will be mediocre.

[mufreight]

While I agree with some of what you are saying, I am comfortable with the concept of single track sections.  What I want to see gone, though, are "precision crosses".  What I mean here are crosses like what currently occur at Glass House Mountains, Beerwah, Thorneside and Wellington Point.  It goes without saying (but I'll say it) that the "dance of the trains" which occurs with crosses north of Landsborough must end.  Bustitution north of Landsborough is preferable to this.

Looks like we are on different tracks here even if rail services were to operate only as far as Landsborough with bustitution beyond there many services would do the "dance of the trains" far better that some money be spent for the partial duplication and realignment to provide passing lanes between Beerburrum and Nambour which is not only of benefit to the commuter services (currently Nambour) but the longer distance passenger services and more importantly to the economy of the state freight services.
The reconstruction of some stations such as Glasshouse on the new alignment with both the main line and the loop having platforms would be a start that would minimise the time taken for trains to cross.

[somebody]

even if rail services were to operate only as far as Landsborough with bustitution beyond there many services would do the "dance of the trains"

How do you figure this one?

AIUI, the "dance of the trains" refers to entering a siding, waiting while a counter direction service uses the platform, then reversing back out of the siding, then resuming normal forward motion to serve the platform.

Many services would still have to cross, however, at Beerwah or Glass House Mountains which both already have 2 platforms.  It is quite regrettable that the Beerburrum duplication didn't extend to Glass House Mountains as that would allow far superior operations.

[Arnz]

Glasshouse Mountains-Landsborough would be much cheaper than Beerburrum-Glasshouse as the Beerburrum-Glasshouse section requires quite a fair bit of road alignments and bridge crosses.   

Glasshouse-Landsborough requires minimal resumptions to straighten out the track (and pretty much only requires the track laid next to the existing one on the existing straightened out sections)

[somebody]

Does that mean there is a lower benefit though?

[Stillwater]

It means maximum benefit for minimal effort / outlay.  And can be done quickly. 

[mufreight]

Glasshouse Mountains-Landsborough would be much cheaper than Beerburrum-Glasshouse as the Beerburrum-Glasshouse section requires quite a fair bit of road alignments and bridge crosses.   

Glasshouse-Landsborough requires minimal resumptions to straighten out the track (and pretty much only requires the track laid next to the existing one on the existing straightened out sections)

In operational terms there is more benefit by doing the realignment and duplication between Beerburrum and Glashouse first with the faster section between Glasshouse and Landsborough remaining as single track.  For the same reason the Eudlo - Mooloolah section is the key section between Landsborough and Nambour in terms of operating benefit bearing in mind the freight operations as well.

[Stillwater]

Government is not about elite rule.  For there to be good government, there must be a strong Opposition (not called 'Her Majesty's Opposition' for nothing).  Ms Palaszczuk will be a good Minister the extent to which Ms Davis keeps the fight up to her -- a fight of substance not rhetoric and name calling.  Queenslanders deserve nothing less.  We are offended and good governance is the poorer the extent to which we are delivered less.

[somebody]

Glasshouse Mountains-Landsborough would be much cheaper than Beerburrum-Glasshouse as the Beerburrum-Glasshouse section requires quite a fair bit of road alignments and bridge crosses.   

Glasshouse-Landsborough requires minimal resumptions to straighten out the track (and pretty much only requires the track laid next to the existing one on the existing straightened out sections)

In operational terms there is more benefit by doing the realignment and duplication between Beerburrum and Glashouse first with the faster section between Glasshouse and Landsborough remaining as single track.  For the same reason the Eudlo - Mooloolah section is the key section between Landsborough and Nambour in terms of operating benefit bearing in mind the freight operations as well.

I do see that the bit north of Landsborough needs to have something done about it, and one would be reluctant to add a second platform face only to demolish it again in a few years.

Not sure what the best answer is.  The Glass House extension would allow hourly to Landsborough and 2 hourly to Nambour without a "dance of the trains".  Half hourly to Landsborough might also be achievable if both platforms at Landsborough are used in the way that they are at Cleveland and Ferny Grove, except that you wouldn't be able to access the middle road south of Lawnton if doing it that way.  Not 100% sure on how that Gympie North service would fit in with that though.

[Gazza]

One thing in the interview that made me chuckle..The minister was saying something to the effect of  "We're overhauling all the bus timetables in the west, currently it's a bit of mish mash". (Cant be bothered re-listening to find the exact quote)

My response to that is, why have they let it go on like that for so long? TL has been around for a little while now!

[mufreight]

I do see that the bit north of Landsborough needs to have something done about it, and one would be reluctant to add a second platform face only to demolish it again in a few years.

Any stations north of Beerburrum that are either in line to be upgraded or replaced should be built on the new alignment, it would in some cases require a short section of line being slewed to connect the existing alignment but would allow a once only spend on the stations, would enable the provision of two platforms at all stations and allow for crossing loops of greater length, both measures that would facilitate reliability and frequency on the NCL.

[david]

Just had a listen to this. It's funny how she keeps plugging the Ipswich/Caboolture timetable upgrades into almost every question. But when the lady asks "Why are there shuttles from Richlands to Darra during peak, but through trains during the off-peak", she doesn't even mention the Ipswich line timetable changes, even though it's the reason why those shuttles are there!