XPT derailment at South Brisbane

[Derwan]

Reported on ABC earlier this morning.  Called a "signal fault" by erail updates and service change announcements.

http://img704.imageshack.us/i/imga1397copy.jpg/

It would appear that the points were set to narrow gauge instead of standard gauge!  (Either that or there was some sort of catastrophic failure.)

[somebody]

Shouldn't there be a signal indication which road has been selected?

[frereOP]

Shouldn't there be a signal indication which road has been selected?

The track is dual gauge on the bridge.  Where does the single dual gauge track separate from the two narrow gauge tracks?  It must be between South Brisbane and the bridge I guess.

[ozbob]

I passed through Central at around 9.05am.  Announcements being made about altered operations on the lines, with the additional 'for further information ring Translink ...'  When I returned about 11.15am to Central announcements about altered operations but now 'for further information ask one of the QR staff ...'

Observations at Central and Roma St around 11.30am.

Half an XPT is at platform 2 Roma St (one power unit and 4? cars).  The power unit is city end.

Assume the other power unit lead and first couple of carriages have derailed near south Merivale Bridge South Brisbane.

Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains running express Roma St to Moorooka via Tennyson, then resumption of normal patterns.

Cleveland trains running express Roma St to Dutton Park via Tennyson then onto the Cleveland branch.

Bus Roma St to Dutton Park.

A rail shuttle between Dutton Park and Moorooka.

Just travelled on an Ippy from Central to Oxley, on the subs.  Noted one down SMU on the main down inbound.

It is times like these that the Tennyson loop line shows its real utility ...

Tennyson had a little bit of unexpected suburban traffic, even if express .. 

[ozbob]

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.473206,153.016862&z=20&t=h&nmd=20100912 and

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.47461,153.018005&z=20&t=h&nmd=20100912

Nearmap

Both lines across the bridge are dual gauge, if you look at the near map you can see where the standard gauge merges into one and then runs around South Brisbane, after further splitting from the narrow gauge line, this is where it happened I think.

see --> http://img34.imageshack.us/i/imga1394copy.jpg/

[ozbob]

http://www.countrylink.info/service_status/service_changes

Train service alterations

Sunday 12 December

Due to an incident south of Brisbane, the 6.30am Brisbane to Sydney XPT service has been replaced by road coaches for the entire journey. Delays are anticipated.


===============

Can't find any media release from CountryLink ..

[Derwan]

I guess it's also possible that the driver went through a red, with the points still set for NG.

Assuming the train was on the correct road across Merivale Bridge, it must've taken the SG-only crossover to the 3rd line which is dual gauge at that point.  As Bob suggested it looks like the derailment occurred at the points that split SG from NG just near South Brisbane Station.

Given that the train had already been given a SG-only route, I can't see how it could've then been given a NG route unless there is no fail-safe.

The only other possibility is that it was set up and an NG train and took the wrong road across the bridge.  (Highly unlikely.)

[ozbob]

http://tinyurl.com/2cokwp8

[Derwan]

Definitely looks like it went straight ahead (onto the NG track), with the momentum then pushing the rear of the loco to the right, dragging the first 2 cars with it.

[Derwan]

I've just received word that the signal fault was pre-existing.  (I.e. there was already a signal fault in the area.)  This may have actually contributed to the derailment.  No other trains were running in the area at the time.

[ozbob]

Yes understand there was some issues with signal interlocking in the area.

Other than that best to wait for the official explanation, if ever.

For example when the SMU hit the dirt at Corinda 4 Aug 2007 all buried ..  --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=181.0

[Derwan]

The rumour (and what I figured as well) is that authorisations were given to pass through red signals because of the signal issues - but the points weren't set correctly.

[Derwan]

The Courier Mail finally has a story (no doubt after seeing the news tonight):  http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-rail-says-derailed-train-wont-cause-peak-hour-delays-on-monday-morning/story-e6freoof-1225969764306

[BrizCommuter]

The rumour (and what I figured as well) is that authorisations were given to pass through red signals because of the signal issues - but the points weren't set correctly.

Authorising to precede through a red/failed signal approaching a junction, without the points being secured and/or the driver visually reading the points would be very dangerous practise. Whilst the SE Queensland rail network has an excellent safety record, this accident seems to be very concerning.

[somebody]

The rumour (and what I figured as well) is that authorisations were given to pass through red signals because of the signal issues - but the points weren't set correctly.

Authorising to precede through a red/failed signal approaching a junction, without the points being secured and/or the driver visually reading the points would be very dangerous practise. Whilst the SE Queensland rail network has an excellent safety record, this accident seems to be very concerning.

You may have a point here.  Perhaps there was a (false) positive indication that the points were set correctly for the SG?  Perhaps there was confusion between the NSW & QLD procedure, as presumably the driver of the train is NSW based.  I think it may be Taree or Grafton.

[Derwan]

Yeah - can't trust those NSW drivers! 

[STB]

Personally I'm not worried about it affecting QR's safety record.  In fact being a railfan this a bit amusing seeing a NSW train take on and fail at QLDs NG.  I'd say it's just a simple error, nothing to be concerned about.

[ButFli]

The rumour (and what I figured as well) is that authorisations were given to pass through red signals because of the signal issues - but the points weren't set correctly.

Authorising to precede through a red/failed signal approaching a junction, without the points being secured and/or the driver visually reading the points would be very dangerous practise. Whilst the SE Queensland rail network has an excellent safety record, this accident seems to be very concerning.

So um... I heard from a friend of a friend who was listening to their scanner this morning that the XPT was cleared through the red signal but the driver was warned to check the points were set correctly before proceeding. It appears our driver decided to save some time and hope for the best, perhaps not being concious of the fact that a derailment would ensue if the points weren't set correctly.

I'm told that the signal setup in this location will keep that particular signal at red if a train is detected on the standard gauge but the points are set for narrow gauge. A foolproof concept in theory and good in practice until someone thinks the signal stuck at red is a fault with the signal and not with the points. Easy to do when there is another known signal fault in the area.

[frereOP]

Personally I'm not worried about it affecting QR's safety record.  In fact being a railfan this a bit amusing seeing a NSW train take on and fail at QLDs NG.  I'd say it's just a simple error, nothing to be concerned about.

You have got to be joking!

This not a simple "error", it is a very serious failure of process.   The reason rail and air transport is so safe is that documented processes and procedures are in place for all facets of the operation to avoid these kinds of incidents.

This should be investigated by the ATSB and like every other "simple accident" (including car accidents), it will be found to be the result of an extensive chain of events ranging from training, procedure development through to operations.

[mufreight]

The standard NSW practice in such cases used to be that the points had to be clipped and locked with a point clip before a train could proceed on a paper authority, if that remains the case to this time then the driver having been advised to proceed would assume that the points were set correctly and would visualy checked the lie of the points, if they were not locked due to an interlocking failure they could move on the approach of the train and then allow the train to split the points which could have occoured in this instance.
Not being aware of the exact circumstances it is possible that the differences in the operating proceedures in relation to interlocking failures between the two systems could well have played a part in this incident.
Think of the pile of paperwork on this one while everyone tries to cover their butt.

[somebody]

Think of the pile of paperwork on this one while everyone tries to cover their butt.

LOL!

[colinw]

... and watch the ill-informed bollocks pile up in the CM feedback.

[STB]

Personally I'm not worried about it affecting QR's safety record.  In fact being a railfan this a bit amusing seeing a NSW train take on and fail at QLDs NG.  I'd say it's just a simple error, nothing to be concerned about.

You have got to be joking!

This not a simple "error", it is a very serious failure of process.   The reason rail and air transport is so safe is that documented processes and procedures are in place for all facets of the operation to avoid these kinds of incidents.

This should be investigated by the ATSB and like every other "simple accident" (including car accidents), it will be found to be the result of an extensive chain of events ranging from training, procedure development through to operations.

No I'm not kidding.  Ease up a bit, I'm actually being quite mild on the relax/am amused scale compared to other railfans on other forums.

[ghostryder]

Somebody
Xpt drivers are changed at Taree and Grafton, Onboard staff are changed at Grafton.

Scott

[ozbob]

A couple of pics from the 88 bus outbound bit after 11am at Roma St.  Noticed inbound the power unit was not there.  Coming back had returned.





Photographs R Dow 13th December 2010

[SteelPan]

I saw this Sunday night on the news.  Whilst not really related, in my view the old XPT is well past its useby date! 

[frereOP]

I saw this Sunday night on the news.  Whilst not really related, in my view the old XPT is well past its useby date! 

They were introduced in the late 70's IIRC (maybe early 80's).  I can remember when the NSW government announced their introduction.  i had just been to Japan and had ridden on the Shinkansen several times.  Norman speed at that time was 210kph.  Even with a cracked window in the motorman's cabin (due to damage caused by air pressure of an oncoming train in a tunnel), the average speed of the Shinkansen on my trip from Kobe to Tokyo was 115kph (just over half speed).  The train I took from Sydney to Wagga when I got back to Oz was the Intercapital Daylight Express which had an average normal speed of 60kph!  I thought the introduction of the XPT was a great step forward but it really didn't save much time.  I think it cut a 7.5 h trip to about 6 from Sydney to Wagga.

They are still reasonably modern as are the older Brisbane sububan electric trains which were introduced about that same time.  I can't say the same about the first double decker sets in Sydney which are very much past their use-by date!

[somebody]

They are still reasonably modern as are the older Brisbane sububan electric trains which were introduced about that same time.  I can't say the same about the first double decker sets in Sydney which are very much past their use-by date!

Not as bad as the red rattlers when they were finally retired.  The silver sets don't really annoy me unless its a hot day and I get one without air con.

[ghostryder]

All
April 8th 1982 the first full revenue Xpt service commenced when the Central West Loco hauled express was replaced by an Xpt set. The Xpt fleet was delivered under three seperate contracts. The intial contract was for Power Cars 2000-2009 and 20 sitting cars delivered during 1981-1982, the second contract for Power Cars 2010-2014 and 20 sitting sitting cars was delivered 1983-84. The final contract was for Power Cars 2015-2018 and 13 sitting cars these being for the Sydney Melbourne run.

In regards to the Double deckers in Sydney the first were the Tulloch built trailers which appeared in 1964, there were 120 of these and they were withdrawn between 1994 and 2004. The DDIU or Double Deck Inter Urban sets or V sets were introduced in 1970 these first 16 cars were withdrawn in late 2005 due to corrosion in the underframes (these cars had low-carbon mild steel underframes instead of stainless steel ones used on later batches).

In regards to the Xpts being passed their used by dates i agree but i regret that they will be around for a while longer, as the entire fleet has been given a face lift, and the Power cars have been upgraded. The Xpts problem is that its timetable has little or no room for delays, this derailment and sets getting caught by floods show the folly in the amount of avaialble cars and the lack of spare power and sitting cars.

Scott

[BrizCommuter]

Whilst not really related, in my view the old XPT is well past its useby date! 

The XPT is based on the UK HSTs, which are still going strong. 

[frereOP]

Whilst not really related, in my view the old XPT is well past its useby date! 

The XPT is based on the UK HSTs, which are still going strong. 

Yep, that's right, the XPT's (Express Passenger Trains) were based on the British Intercity 125's.  Modifications that were made to the IC25 design to make them suitable for Australian conditions.  The top speed was reduced from 125 mph (hence Intercity 125) or 200 kph to about 115 mph or 185 kph with larger radiators to cope with higher air temperatures.

The XPT set an Australian rail speed record of 185kph on a section of track between Wagga and Albury in about 1985.

[somebody]

Pretty sure it's gotten over 200km/h, down near Table Top.  Not sure if they have had their top speed reduced, but different gearing is a possibility.  The top speed is certainly reduced by the state of the tracks in Australia.

[ghostryder]

All
The first two power cars commenced testing with a luggage van in August 1981. With an operating speed of over 160 km/h, on a demonstration run to Albury on 6 September 1981 the XPT set a new Australian speed record of 183 km/h between Table Top and Gerogery, about 40 km from Wagga Wagga, breaking that of Western Australia's 1971 Prospector railcar. On a test run to Albury on 10 September 1992 the XPT reached 193 km/h between Table Top and Yerong Creek. However this record was broken by Queensland's QR Tilt Train in 1999.

scott

[ClintonL94]

Passing through South Brisbane earlier this week I saw SLOW(25km/h) signs for the tracks that were involved in the incident.

[Stillwater]

Well that says it all!  Governments point to the speed capacity of trains such as the Tilt Train, but they cannot reach their maximum potential because of the state of the track.  The tilt can run at max speed for only a tiny fraction of the journey to Cairns.  XPT slows to a crawl south of Taree to Maitland.

[SteelPan]

CHANT THIS DAY AND NIGHT

RAIL IS AN INVESTMENT - ROADS ARE AN EXPENSIVE         

We've suffered the reverse for decades!

[BribieG]

SWMBO's family are in Sydney just 30 mins from the end of the Pacific Highway at Turramurra and I've been driving the road for the last 12 years. So how come 12 years ago it took 12 hours to get there from here. Since then they have bypassed Tugun,  the border ranges (Mooball etc), bypassed Buladelah Ranges, Karuah, put in a vast stretch of modern motorway south of Kempsey,  but it still takes 12 hours 
Maybe I'm just getting slower.  :bi

[frereOP]

CHANT THIS DAY AND NIGHT

RAIL IS AN INVESTMENT - ROADS ARE AN EXPENSIVE         

We've suffered the reverse for decades!

If the scrutiny of cost-benefit that is being applied to current infrastructure projects like HSR was applied to railways being built in the 1,800's, would we have a national rail network, or any railways at all?