When will CityTrain get a reasonable frequency?

[somebody]

Don't know about any of you, but I am somewhat discouraged that the busiest and second busiest lines on the network are to receive their largest improvement in 13 years and the only real improvement in base frequency is due to the branch at Richlands.  At this rate, it will take 5 years or so to get the same level of improvement to the other lines, and then we may come back to improve the frequency Ipswich/Cab.

If RailBoT has been highlighting this for 4 years, why isn't anyone listening?  While they have announced plans for a "rail revolution", the rhetoric isn't matched by action.

Or should I take a chill pill?

[ozbob]

The rail system was kicked into touch for many many years.  Slowly recovery is now occurring.  The fundamental reason why I started this group up was because of the sad state the railway network had fallen into.  I am actually starting to be a lot more optimistic and excited now.  Things are starting to happen.  Believe me, in 2006 it was not looking bright at all.  

There have been some gains of late, and the changing political environment is also going to have an impact.  So stick around, things are about to get a lot better.

For example, the track between Roma St and Corinda has been quietly upgraded, sleepers replaced, all points replaced, new signalling system.  Ok, frequency is not there yet but these things have been going on whilst more trains being built, new crew being trained, and so forth. Richlands is the driver but from this it will slowly move higher frequency to other lines.

[Stillwater]

While politicians like the idea of new trains so they can be pohotographed beside them, we should give every encouragement to governments that improve track and signalling.  Both address safety and reliability, also frequency.  It aint sexy, but it is pretty findamental to operational capacity.

[#Metro]

While politicians like the idea of new trains so they can be pohotographed beside them, we should give every encouragement to governments that improve track and signalling.  Both address safety and reliability, also frequency.  It aint sexy, but it is pretty findamental to operational capacity.

These really are the foundation of a good rail system. Not much use if you have new trains but the signaling falls over (see Melbourne).
Better signaling also means more frequent trains are possible during peak hour.

CityTrain already has the rollingstock IMHO to do 15 minute services in the off peak. And they really should. There is always constrained room for growth during peak hour, but in the off peaks, there is much room for improvement.

[Golliwog]

I would definatly agree, replacing the old wooden sleepers with concrete (or steel, although those have some negatives for some types of rail maintenance) is most definatly a plus, same for signalling and points upgrades/replacement. The main thing holding back frequency is most definatly the current need to share tracks with freight on some lines. What is needed now is a bit of a focus on providing seperate tracks for freight where possible and where it is most needed (I'm thinking SC line, out past Darra, and near Roma St.

[somebody]

The main thing holding back frequency is most definatly the current need to share tracks with freight on some lines. What is needed now is a bit of a focus on providing seperate tracks for freight where possible and where it is most needed (I'm thinking SC line, out past Darra, and near Roma St.

Do you really believe that?  Where are the freight trains on the FG line, for example?

Nambour line could live with shared tracks if it had duplication, probably even if it was only to Landsborough.

[Golliwog]

FG I think the reluctance is on the part of TL (at least thats the feeling I was getting from the QR staff at the consultation for the FG upgrade today) where thats just because they don't want to or they worry about the issue of reliability with the single track section and how that pairs with other restrictions where those trains end up (even with your mock timetable you agreed that there were some tight squeezes). I suppose we will see what we shall see when stage 2 of the timetable changes goes to consultation.

[BribieG]

I was sitting out the front of my home-brew buddy's place this afternoon (our weekly quaffing session). He lives on one of the busiest roads on the Island (Eucalypt ave) and we were watching the traffic pass. It struck me that nearly all the vehicles were SUVs or Pajero style 4WDs with a distinct minority of "modern" vehicles like Suzuki Swifts or Hyudai Getz / i30 whatever. I think that the people who used to drive Falcons, Commodores (and before that Valiant station wagons etc) have just switched to SUVs instead and the mindset has not changed one iota.

With our plain sailing through the GFC and the strength of the $A and relative cheapness of fuel, I get the feeling that substantial progress won't be made until we get to the inevitable $3 a litre for petrol or diesel.

Not fantasy, I was paying $2.20 a litre on holiday in the UK quite a few years ago.

[johnnigh]

We await the election campaign for the outgoing to implement long-planned and delayed changes and the incoming to promise to do even more. Then we'll wait for the excuses to be leaked from 'reliable sources' in TL and QR as to why the new timetables won't work, will lead to catastrophe and the breakdown of law and order in SEQ. 

[mufreight]

Nambour line could live with shared tracks if it had duplication, probably even if it was only to Landsborough.

The north coast line to achieve a reasonable frequency needs infrastructure to remove choke points to enable an improved frequency.
The first choke point is the lack of track capacity into Petrie, to enable a frequency increase without additional freight traffic a third track is needed between Lawnton and Petrie, with the extra traffic when the line to Kippa-Ring is built and comes into service this will then require the line from Northgate to Petrie to be four tracks.
It would be logical when building the new bridge accross the North Pine river needed to provide the third track to cater for the four tracks.
There is sufficent capacity between Petrie and Beerburrum in the short term but beyond Beerburrum the single track and poor alignment with its numerous speed restricted curves inhibits any increase in frequency this could be minimised by the duplication and realignment of the line between Beerburrum and Beerwah and between a point about halfway between Mooloolah and Eudlo and Palmwoods and between Nambour and Kulangoor, these passing lanes would enable a reliable frequency of operation with movements in opposing directions or overtaking movements on a frequency of some three trains per hour as a minimum, with some creative timetabling and fleeting of trains this could be raised to five or six movements per hour, and would enable an hourly frequency to and from Nambour

[#Metro]

A train load of muffins is required too, this will take ages to do...

[Golliwog]

Get private business involved! You can't tell me that the rail freight haulage companies aren't going to benefit from any track expansions on the NC line that would free up service space? Yet as far as I'm aware they sit on their hands waiting for the government to do it.

[somebody]

I don't see that Lawnton-Petrie should be a choke point on current operations.  Assuming that freight operations are occurring off peak, the whole Northgate-Caboolture stretch is getting the same frequency.  Obviously, Kippa-Ring will change this, but even then I cannot see that this is that much of a problem.  Certainly not exceeding the windy single track north of Beerburrum.

[colinw]

I was sitting out the front of my home-brew buddy's place this afternoon (our weekly quaffing session).

Off topic: ah, a man after my own heart.  Mark me down as another brewer. Started with kits, all-grain these days. Much better than the bought stuff!

Back on topic:

Brisbane will get a reasonable frequency when the political & bureacratic will to do so is there.  The infrastructure is there to support a major improvement in the off peak.  Just look at what occurs in peak, despite some major choke points, the worst of which is the Merivale bridge & flat junctions at Roma St West.

Freight is often held up as an argument against improved frequency, but Brisbane actually does reasonably well for freight segregation with the DG line, Ekka loop, Tennyson route, Dutton Park flyover & dedicated freight line to Lytton Junction.

In any case, a freight train running on the yellows can mix in quite easily with suburban traffic and will travel at a similar average speed to the all stops train.  To those who doubt, hang around the Ipswich or Caboolture line some time and watch a train go through a signal, then time how long until a yellow then a green aspect is displayed.  Then time how long until another train appears - quite often there is time to slot through several services.  That time where the railway sits there doing nothing represents wasted opportunity.  The situation is more complex at flat junctions of course, and it is toward junction conflicts that some infrastructure upgrades should be directed.

What is holding us back is quite simply a "less with more" attitude.  Over the 21 years I have lived in Brisbane there has been a steady stream of infrastructure improvement, but the services to match simply have not followed.  In Brisbane itself the only two "wow!" improvements in my time here have been the quarter hourly offpeak to Corinda (and soon Darra), and the move to weekend service being half hourly offpeak back in the early '90s.

[Stillwater]

With CAMCOS off to the never-never, the question has to be asked -- what essential trackwork is required to work the line to Nambour for an hourly service.  Mufreight's idea mirrors that which happens on the roads when government's get round to fixing them.  Choke points and 'black spots' are given priority.  If improving a bit of track here, skipping a bit, then increasing capacity a bit further along does the trick, then why not -- provided the work being done can be incorporated into the eventual track duplication.  Otherwise, it is wasted money in the long run.

[colinw]

1. Timetable the service to maximise crossing opportunities on the double track to Beerwah, and at locations like Landsborough.
2. Appropriately signalled loops at relatively even spacing, and rebuild stations to have two platforms.  This "train shuffle" nonsense has to stop.

Gold Coast managed to run half hourly or better frequency with single track beyond Ormeau, as does Cleveland beyond Manly.  No freight in either case, but even with freight I refuse to believe an hourly Nambour service couldn't be squeezed through if some choke points were fixed and the crossing loops & stations were up to scratch.

[somebody]

In theory you could do a half hourly frequency to Landsborough on current infrastructure, with a cross at Glasshouse Mountains or Beerway but it would probably make it pretty hard for freight.  Getting hourly to Nambour would require a reasonable passing location north of Landsborough or speeding up the services.  Is there much reason for the Nambour terminus?  Would Eumundi or Cooroy be better?

[Stillwater]

Yes, some longer crossing loops would be a start.  And that would benefit reight operations too.  Longer freight trains and fewer diversions to sidings mean better freight efficiency -- something a privatised QR Freight will be demanding.  It flows that passenger operations would improve also.

[Stillwater]

Mufreight has suggested track upgrade around Eudlo as your suggested 'north of Landsborough' improvement.  Other comment in here has been for Nambour trains to be stabled at Yandina (next stop north), allowing for train services to run to there before turnaround.  Not sure about Cooroy, but maybe feasible.  As you say, increases conflict with freight trains on a single track.

[Arnz]

I said it before, and I'll say it again.  Stabling at Beerwah to allow Landsborough terminators.  Beerwah stabling can be used for CAMCOS and Beerwah-Nambour shuttles in the future, that's (if) CAMCOS ever comes to fruition.

[somebody]

I said it before, and I'll say it again.  Stabling at Beerwah to allow Landsborough terminators.  Beerwah stabling can be used for CAMCOS and Beerwah-Nambour shuttles in the future, that's (if) CAMCOS ever comes to fruition.

You don't need the stabling to change the service patterns!

[BribieG]

Popped in to the dentist on Wednesday at Fortitude Valley (I'm on the Caboolture Line) and only two tracks were working, with platforms 3 and 4 closed. Around 11 am so it wasn't rush hour by any means but the system was handling the traffic just fine, including a Nambour Express. Got back onto the "right" track at Bald Hills.

[ButFli]

Not fantasy, I was paying $2.20 a litre on holiday in the UK quite a few years ago.

Yeah but they have a ridiculous amount of tax on petrol over there. It really isn't a good comparison.

[BrizCommuter]

Not fantasy, I was paying $2.20 a litre on holiday in the UK quite a few years ago.

Yeah but they have a ridiculous amount of tax on petrol over there. It really isn't a good comparison.

They also have half-decent public transport!