Caboolture Line draft 2011 timetable feedback thread

[ozbob]

Please add your comments, constructive or destructive ... 

[somebody]

Umm, Death to their feeble plans.

There is a positive with rationalising the stopping patterns, but that is all.

We don't need all stop Northgate-Bowen Hills.

Current timetable has 12 trains through Petrie 7am-7:59am.  New timetable has 14 + 1 from Nambour.  I don't think the 3 extra trains really compensate for needing to pick up most of the 3000 odd people that get on at Albion/Woolowin/Nundah/Toombul.  Yes, some of these people are traveling at different times, or will continue to use Shorncliffe line trains.  Still, with expected growth combined with these pax, some of which will undoubtedly move over from Shorncliffe trains, it is likely these trains will be too full.

The timetable's assigned platform numbers cannot be done, with the Petrie trains which allegedly will serve Northgate #4, but then are passed by Caboolture trains. (Ok, a minor point as they can use a different platform at Northgate, with the inbound train probably going to Platform #1.

Sorry, but I think the proposed timetable is not much better, if at all, as compared to the current one.  And it's a good point that Fiona Simpson makes that commuters are paying a lot more for a service which is not improving.

Does that fall into the category of destructive comments?

[david]

Unfortunately, "sectorisation" has made it impossible but to have trains stopping all stations between Northgate and Bowen Hills during AM peak. Effectively, all the trains from Nambour/Caboolture/Petrie have all been shoved into the mains between Northgate and Bowen Hills, leaving plenty of spare, unused capacity on the suburbans.

I have had a look at the timetable and it seems that only if some of the trains were able to use the suburbans, there would be enough headway for express between Northgate and Bowen Hills with the frequency proposed. Perhaps QR/Translink should investigate either tweaking their "sectorisation" principles or the addition of a 5th track between Bowen Hills and Northgate with the impending CRR project.

[ozbob]

I have received this feedback in response to the observation as to why the Caboolture line trains are running all stations Northgate to Bowen Hills.  Thanks.

The reason is that the Caboolture Line is effectively 2 tracks from the CBD to Northgate, 3 tracks from Northgate to Lawnton, and 2 tracks from Lawnton to Caboolture. Thus Caboolture/Sunshine Coast expresses can only overtake all stations services between Northgate and Lawnton. For the line to run near maximum capacity, then all trains must run at similar speeds on the other parts of the line. If expresses were made more express, then the all stations services would have to spaced out more decreasing the overall line capacity. It's a case of total line capacity vs journey time, and not enough infrastructure.

It is doubtful that Shorncliffe Line will have the ability to run enough services on the suburbans to allow all Caboolture Line services to express Bowen Hills to Northgate until after CRR is opened.

[somebody]

The first paragraph we already knew.

The second paragraph, I would dispute.  Even if they refuse to do the crew swaps at Shorncliffe, they could still do 4tph to Shorncliffe without too much trouble, and then you could throw in some Sandgate reversing.

I think they should be made to crew swap.  CityRail can do it at Bondi Junction, and so can the London Underground reportedly.  Enough of the mediocrity.

They could start the Petrie bound trains on Roma St #7, using the suburbans to Northgate, which would abolish the need to wrong road through Northgate #3.  Similar in the AM.

It would help things a bit if those Airport trains could stop at Albion & Woollowin, although I don't see this as essential to good train operations, because the airport trains can follow the Ferny Grove ones heading north, and vice versa.

[ozbob]

From the Northern Times Caboolture click here!

Commuters gain in timetable tweak

Commuters gain in timetable tweak

by Glenn Roberts

THE Caboolture line will get more peak train services under a draft timetable due to start early next year.

Under the new timetable, 18 morning peak express services will arrive at Central station between 6am and 9am, up from the current 13.
Of those 13 will be express services and five will be all-station services.

There will be 17 afternoon peak services departing Central station between 3.30pm and 6.30pm, consisting of four all-station services and 13 express services.

There will also be an extra morning and afternoon peak service between Nambour and the CBD.

Translink says this will mean trains every 6-12 minutes during busiest times of the peak.

For commuters using stations from Morayfield to Dakabin there will be 14 morning peak express services (up from 13) arriving at Central station between 6am and 9am (nine will run express between Northgate and Petrie).

Of the 13 afternoon peak services leaving Central station between 3.30pm and 6.30pm, nine of which will be express.

Off peak and weekend trains will run every 30 minutes, stopping all stations.

[somebody]

I'm surprised they are reporting it as a good news story.

[david]

After some closer inspection of the timetable...I noticed that the 5:46pm service actually arrives at Central at 5:35pm, which makes that an 11 minute dwell! This also creates an unacceptable 18 minute gap between the 5:31pm and 5:49pm all-stations Petrie services!

Surely they can cut some of this dwell time and reduce the gap?

[ozbob]

One blog comment made on the article above in the Pine Rivers Press ...

I have perused the timetable and there are no extra trains in the morning peak between Caboolture and Central, in fact they have axed one service at 7.22am which means that people will most probably have to stand all the way in on the scheduled services after 7.15am. I get on the train at Burpengary usually around 7.15 to 7.30am and the current services are two thirds full then. I couldn't find any extra pm services either. Also, why make our trains run all stations between Northgate and Central - this is only going to make our trips longer. Come on Translink, talk to the commuters before this stupid timetable is made permanent. After all, our fares are going up on 1 January but our level of service is decreasing. I will deninitely be taking this matter up with the local State member for Morayfield and theTransport minister. It seems that the only people benefiting from this timetable will be those living between Northgate and the city - must be where the translink boffers who proposed this timetable live! Unhappy commuter, Burpengary.

[somebody]

After some closer inspection of the timetable...I noticed that the 5:46pm service actually arrives at Central at 5:35pm, which makes that an 11 minute dwell! This also creates an unacceptable 18 minute gap between the 5:31pm and 5:49pm all-stations Petrie services!

Surely they can cut some of this dwell time and reduce the gap?

Looks like this is done to have a clockface counter peak timetable.  CityRail certainly don't do counter peak this way.  Improved frequency, but not clockface is the trade off.  Not sure about other authorities.

[ozbob]

Apart from the Northgate to Bowen Hills consideration,  and the impact of the Petrie to Northgate express pattern, adding the two drafts together the service frequency is good out of Caboolture am peak.  I think some folks are being confused by the two different timetables (Caboolture and Sunshine Coast Lines) not being additive.  They look at the Caboolture line timetable and forget that there are Sunshine Coast trains coming through as well.

[somebody]

I think some folks are being confused by the two different timetables (Caboolture and Sunshine Coast Lines) not being additive. 

This is understandable.  Sunshine Coast trains should be shown on the Caboolture line timetable IMO.

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.

New time table for the Caboolture line.

This line is the busiest in Brisbane, so one would expect some effort to be made to cater for passengers to transfer between this line and the northside branch lines. A 25 - 28 minute wait is not acceptable on lines having a half hourly frequency. The only transfer that is acceptable is to or from the Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove lines at Bowen Hills. In times of lighter traffic, the train from Caboolture often has to wait near Northgate Rd for the Shorncliffe train to clear Northgate station. Occasional Cleveland trains are through routed with trains from the northside, but at other times, trains from the northside sit near the Mayne Yards so the Cleveland train can clear Bowen Hills station.
The projected time table for the Sunshine Coast line ensures that people during the morning peak have to leave home 20 minutes or so earlier. Passenger loading on many of the peak period trains already carry standing passengers between Caboolture and the city stations and v.v., What is achieved by running a slower service so as trains can stop all stations between the city stations and Northgate? Passengers north of Caboolture are already starting to organise car pooling because of the poorer service - more but slower trains is not smart service, only incompetence.

"Connecting" bus services where the bus leaves at the same time as the train arrives are not providing service. This happens at both Carseldine and Boondall for journey I have attempted. Now with the bank up of passengers at the Go card machines this is also starting to happen at Caboolture. This is not a railway issue, but QR can apply pressure to the bus authorities to adjust their time tables by about 2 minutes. Fairly seamless interchange can only lead to increased patronage, alternatively why not remove the bus interchanges and turn the space into additional car parking?

[STB]

That 25min connection between Caboolture and Shorncliffe trains comes at a price of giving a 15min frequency between Northgate and Bowen Hills between the Caboolture and Shorncliffe lines.  Simply due to the nature and timing between the two lines, that connection gap occurs.  Close the gap and you decrease the frequency.  Not sure what can be done about that.