E-Petition: New bus service between The Gap and University of Queensland

[p858snake]

E-Petition: New bus service between The Gap and University of Queensland => http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/EPetitions_QLD/CurrentEPetition.aspx?PetNum=1553&lIndex=-1

[somebody]

Interesting proposal, and one I haven't thought of.

I presume what is meant is running from The Gap, Coopers Camp Rd, Frederick St, Sherwood Rd, past Toowong Village and then along the 402 route to UQ.

I cannot see this being justified off peak, the 385+109 combination is good enough then.

[Golliwog]

What intrigues me is in the list of suburbs they include Keperra and Upper Kedron, which would have 3 or 4 buses (362 and maybe even the 367)

[ButFli]

Is State Parliament even able to introduce a new bus service? I know that services are coordinated by Translink, a State Government authority, but the new services would be provided with BCC buses. Those BCC buses are paid for by BCC over and above the subsidy that Translink provides. If State Parliament is telling BCC where to run bus services, they are effectively telling BCC how and where to spend its money. That seems a bit shifty.

I think the petition would be more properly aimed at BCC.

[Golliwog]

Not necessarily. It could be run by another bus company, they don't propose using the Green bridge so theres no conflict with council there. Currently Brisbane Bus Lines runs the 399 to FG station, and their bus depot is at Alderley so its not that bad for them. Whether they would actually tender for it or not is something different but it would be possible.

[somebody]

Is State Parliament even able to introduce a new bus service? I know that services are coordinated by Translink, a State Government authority, but the new services would be provided with BCC buses. Those BCC buses are paid for by BCC over and above the subsidy that Translink provides. If State Parliament is telling BCC where to run bus services, they are effectively telling BCC how and where to spend its money. That seems a bit shifty.

I think the petition would be more properly aimed at BCC.

I think they both need to agree & fund it.  Something which needs something done about it.

And what Golliwog said.

[#Metro]

I think they both need to agree & fund it.  Something which needs something done about it.

If this idea ever gets up, I expect to see a bit of a tussle over balance sheet shifting of the costs.
Does anyone know if the state owns the other operator's buses, or just the BCC ones?

BUZ 412 and BUZ 444, does it take that long?

[Golliwog]

What do the 444 and 412 have to do with it? You wouldn't catch those to get to UQ from The Gap. You'd take the 385 to the CC, then 109 to UQ Lakes. I have heard of students changing to the 444 at Roma St and then changing to the 412 somewhere before Toowong, but to me theres no real benefit to that.

[STB]

Interesting proposal, and one I haven't thought of.

I presume what is meant is running from The Gap, Coopers Camp Rd, Frederick St, Sherwood Rd, past Toowong Village and then along the 402 route to UQ.

I cannot see this being justified off peak, the 385+109 combination is good enough then.

Agreed.  The frequency of routes 385 and 109/412 is such during off peak hours at least there is no need for a direct service.

I'm not aware of there being a major catchment of UQ students in The Gap, this would need to be justified (can be justified by getting postcodes of the locations of students with the numbers of students in each postcode - has been done before) before a service is put on. 

I do have a sneaky suspicion that it might be just simply some lazy passengers who want a direct one bus trip, even if it only carries less than 7 passengers per trip.

[#Metro]

Possibly, but look at 209, 169 and 139- more than enough to justify their own bus services.

It takes about 50 minutes to one hour from the Gap to get to UQ.
They have a point. Cross-town connections in general need to be improved.

A SmartBus style orbital bus network terminating at UQ could serve that area.
You would need to fragment 599/598 into many smaller routes, but this might not be a bad thing.

http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/web23/Home.nsf/AllDocs/FF5ECD6545A6083BCA25766600141DE9?OpenDocument

[AnonymouslyBad]

It takes about 50 minutes to one hour from the Gap to get to UQ.
They have a point. Cross-town connections in general need to be improved.

An hour for that trip is quite a while. This route isn't a bad idea, but at the same time, there's probably a dozen other cross town routes that are more pressing.

UQ is a popular destination, but for any direct route to be useful it would need to be high frequency and I'm not sure the patronage would be there in this case to justify that. The 139, 169 and 209 aren't really fair comparisons because their respective city routes have a lot higher patronage than the 385 (last I heard), they probably have more students in their catchment area and also have the benefit of the busway.

Though to be fair, I'd probably also agree with the assessment that no matter how good it is, students are the only residents of The Gap that would even consider using public transport.

Perhaps a route like this could be tested out as an extension of the 402, or a more general cross-town service feeding to Toowong.

[#Metro]

Brisbane needs to get its orbital circulation sorted out. Cross town trips are terrible to do. 599/598 is horrible, but has much potential.

[somebody]

Possibly, but look at 209, 169 and 139- more than enough to justify their own bus services.

Looking at it on a map, it looks like interchanging at Mater Hill is more of a deviation from the 139/169 than 385+109 from the Gap to UQ.  And much more significant benefits.  This is the same reason why the Boggo Rd busway was a good idea IMHO.

[Golliwog]

Huh? Where does Mater Hill come into this?

[somebody]

Huh? Where does Mater Hill come into this?

Without the 139/169 that is where you would need to interchange to get to the 109.  So the argument that the proposed route is like those routes doesn't get over the line for me.  That's what I meant.

Brisbane needs to get its orbital circulation sorted out. Cross town trips are terrible to do. 599/598 is horrible, but has much potential.

I do agree with this, but what I think is needed is a non-milk run great circle, rather than the current route.  But there will be losers from messing with it.

[#Metro]

I do agree with this, but what I think is needed is a non-milk run great circle, rather than the current route.  But there will be losers from messing with it.

Too right!!

[Golliwog]

Saw this petition floating around Facebook the other day. Interesting to see how many vote for it.

[ozbob]

Response:

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/EPetitions_qld/Responses/1553-10.pdf

[somebody]

Has this always been the standard of the response to E-Petitions?

[ozbob]

Of the responses I have seen, sometimes the petition gets a result but most times the response seems to be just a partial justification of why something can not be done or achieved, couched in the political speak of the day.

[#Metro]

TransLink acknowledges that a journey from The Gap and surrounding suburbs to the University of Queensland involves a transfer between services. The provision of improved cross town routes is a key focus of TransLink as it will provide greater flexibility and improved trip options to many residents in outer suburbs and where practicable, will avoid passengers unnecessarily travelling via the Brisbane central business district.

WHAT CROSS TOWN SERVICES ?

"Improved", how can they be "improved" most don't even exist or are highly infrequent.

Great Circle Line <--- low frequency
77 <--- spends many km in a tunnel, so no boardings, alightings or destinations while in the tunnel
88 <-- duplicates 444 and 111 and Ipswich Rail, a lot of money the government is spending to avoid a simple and quick transfer
?

[AnonymouslyBad]

Has this always been the standard of the response to E-Petitions?

It basically says "your comments have been noted", which is about what you'd expect. The Minister isn't just going to click her fingers and make it happen overnight, not when it's one of probably 20 cross-town routes that could be rolled out next.

Unless, of course, a petition gets enough signatures that there's no question the service would make a nice profit...

TransLink isn't exactly rolling in money or low on red tape. Sadly, they probably have enough "proposed" service improvements to eat through the next several years of funding and planning bureaucracy as it is.

[somebody]

Has RailBoT ever lodged an E-Petition?

[ButFli]

WHAT CROSS TOWN SERVICES ?

"Improved", how can they be "improved" most don't even exist or are highly infrequent.

199, CityGlider and CityCat. All "cross town" services and all pretty schmicko. (not that improvements wouldn't be welcome)

[ozbob]

Has RailBoT ever lodged an E-Petition?

As I understand it the Parliamentary E-Petitions are sponsored by MPs.  I don't think they are particularly successful.

[#Metro]

199, CityGlider and CityCat. All "cross town" services and all pretty schmicko. (not that improvements wouldn't be welcome)

These are through routes services. Cross town in my books would be Brookside to DFO Airport via Stafford Rd.

[longboi]

199, CityGlider and CityCat. All "cross town" services and all pretty schmicko. (not that improvements wouldn't be welcome)

These are through routes services. Cross town in my books would be Brookside to DFO Airport via Stafford Rd.

"through route" is just an exercise in verbosity. Just because CityGlider operates through the CBD doesn't make it any different - We need to be moving away from that thinking and view the entire area within the BCC boundary as the 'City'.

[somebody]

"through route" is just an exercise in verbosity. Just because CityGlider operates through the CBD doesn't make it any different - We need to be moving away from that thinking and view the entire area within the BCC boundary as the 'City'.

[longboi]

"through route" is just an exercise in verbosity. Just because CityGlider operates through the CBD doesn't make it any different - We need to be moving away from that thinking and view the entire area within the BCC boundary as the 'City'.

I don't think you get it.

Just because a route travels through the CBD doesn't make it any different from a suburban cross-town route. The set-up and function of the route itself is exactly the same, one just happens to pass through an area which is designated as the CBD.

[somebody]

Just because a route travels through the CBD doesn't make it any different from a suburban cross-town route. The set-up and function of the route itself is exactly the same, one just happens to pass through an area which is designated as the CBD.

It's quite different.  The major reason for a cross town route is so that you don't need to go via the CBD to do something like Sandgate-Bracken Ridge.  With a through route, it really on saves on an interchange for the few, but reliability is likely to suffer.

[Golliwog]

But for the 199 would you then make another route for people that is a cross town service to get from West End to New Farm? Somehow skirting around the CBD and taking much longer.

[somebody]

But for the 199 would you then make another route for people that is a cross town service to get from West End to New Farm? Somehow skirting around the CBD and taking much longer.

No, short answer.  If you split up the 199, you would just make people interchange.  But that route is short enough as it is.

[#Metro]

Let's not get to hung up on definitions. IMHO "to and from town" and "around town" seems to do the trick.

There is a lot of congestion for buses on Adelaide Street in peak hours. When I last took route 375, most of the time was spent trying to get out of Adelaide Street and through Fortitude Valley.

Route 199 also gets stuck on Brunswick Street- not much joy there either.