Richlands - timetable considerations

[#Metro]

I agree that as you increase the frequency, you see diminishing returns.
At some point the returns will just exactly equal costs which is when you should stop.
(or stop to let supply adjust and passengers to get used to and patronise the new services).

IMHO some care to the context should be taken when applying broad brush elasticity of demand figures.
If 5 minute frequency allows buses to seamlessly connect up with trains in peak hour, and 15 minute frequency does not,
that might be a different story, for example.

I think, in general, what the QR rail system is capable of doing is underestimated.
I'm not suggesting frequency be ramped up overnight- that's not going to happen IMHO.
It will take a while I think- proof of concept with increasing off peak frequencies between 15 minutes 6am-11pm
will be the first step.

Imagine the disbelief Brisbane City Council must have been in when listening to the idea that buses be run every 15 minutes 6am-11pm, rail hail or shine and at huge cost.   And the frequency should be the same on Saturday and on Sunday when patronage was scraping the barrel!  

What a crazy loony idea BUZ was! Whoever pitched that to BCC should get a medal for courage!
Imagine the high cost and the risk, especially given that few people caught PT at the time.
I'm surprised that ever got funded.
But it works now. Some routes in peak hour are every 5 minutes.

Guess which system is lagging now?- Rail. And for the same reasons.
The solution- BUZ the rail system.

[Cam]

There are a significant number of pax who come in on the Ipswich line and go to PA Hospital via the 104 at Corinda. Also facilitates future and present rail connections at Corinda.  Milton could be added as a regular stop to the limited express pattern with ease, and is probably a good move.

So Darra, Oxley, Corinda, Indooroopilly, Toowong, Milton, Roma St ..  missed stations will still have 15 minute service.  

( I am talking off peak here, peak haven't started on that yet .. lol)

If there were off peak services that ran express Darra to Roma St stopping only at Indooroopilly & possibly Toowong, it would be faster for passengers from stations between Ipswich & Darra to travel by train into Roma St (about 17 minutes from Darra) & back out to Dutton Park (11 minutes) than it would be to catch the 104. If there were 4tph off peak to Dutton Park then that's an average wait time of 7.5 minutes. The total trip from Darra to Dutton Park Station would be about 35 minutes. Currently it takes 40-45 minutes off peak by train & bus 104 from Darra to the PA Hospital. If you don't want to or are unable to walk from Dutton Park Station then you could take a bus to the PA Hospital Busway Station instead. This would take a few minutes longer.

What would be even better is for some off peak services from Ipswich to run via Tennyson then you could catch a direct service to Dutton Park.

I think that most city bound passengers from the Inala, Forest Lake & Durack areas would rather catch a bus to Richlands than Oxley. Likewise, I think that most city bound passengers from the Centenary suburbs that catch a bus to Oxley would prefer to catch a bus to Darra & then an express service to Roma St taking about 17 minutes from Darra.

From what I have read, I sense that off peak ExpressLink services from Ipswich may be years away  & that there will only be an increase in off peak services in 2011 as far as Redbank (UrbanLink)

[ozbob]

that there will only be an increase in off peak services in 2011 as far as Redbank (UrbanLink) ..

Yes.  It might take a revolution ... or a new government.

It is time the local members who claim to represent their constituents got vocal.  The rail service in south - east Queensland is farcical ...

[ozbob]

The present feeders into both Darra and Oxley are  generally under utilised, partly because of poor frequency bus and rail.

Many choose to drive, and they head to Oxley over Darra.  Reason for this is fundamental, they can generally find a park at Oxley easier than Darra. Oxley has a lot more streets within reach of the station.  I have been watching the parking closely these past months. It is getting worse each day almost.  The main car park is filling up earlier and earlier, they spill out on to the streets and are now going further out from the station. Partly because of the restrictions in some nearby streets and the sheer volume.  Traffic is a progressively building on Seventeen Mile Rocks Roads and Harcourt roads for example.  In fact Harcourt road is a major basket case at times.  Buses are caught up as well.

The solution is to put on proper feeder services that are frequent, run extended hours and actually meet high frequency rail services. The notion of connecting with specific trains is probably lost due to the unpredictable traffic events. But if the trains are frequent (and bus) not the issue it is now.

The other point to make is when Richlands opens it will fill its car park from places south of the Ipswich highway quickly (eg. Springfield Lakes, Ellen Grove/Forest Lake and Inala).  The promotion of the 650 car park is only encouraging them.  There has been no mention of frequent bus as alternative has there?  The pressure from suburbs north of the highway, which is the bulk into Oxley and further in will continue unabated, and there may even be more than the steady increase of late due to the flawed thinking that more space will be available north of the highway ..

Active promotion of alternatives to the personal transport machines needs to be under way now, so when Richlands commences (which might be early next year looking at the rate of progress of the track and stations).  And a novel thing like talking to the community about transport options would be smart as well.  Done easily by face to face and web.

It would be rather tragic if Richlands is botched - both the rail timetable and the bus feeder role. The authorities must know in some detail what the rail and bus options will be (which is rather amusing considering the promised timetable consultation appears to be more illusion than reality).  As is the way of late it is a closely guarded secret ...

But if you have a look at the bus arrangements access, stops etc. at Richlands rail I am hopeful ...

[mufreight]

When Richlands comes into service it will draw commuters from Inala, Ellen Grove and Forest Lake who currently are driving to Wacol, Darra and Oxley.
This will provide a measure of relief at those stations that will provide space for many of the commuters presently driving in from the northern side of the line.
What is required is unquestionably a feeder bus service on a frequency parallel to that of the train services, the problem being the period over which the feeder services are operated, there is little point in being able to catch a bus to get to the station if there is not a bus service available for the return journey.
More relief could be provided quickly by the immediate construction of the station and associated parking facilities at Ellen Grove and the extension of rail services there without waiting for the completion of the line to Springfield, the earthworks and bridgeworks are already mostly in place now and the costs of bring that section of the line and the station into service ahead of the complete line are minimal when weighed against the benefits gained.

[ozbob]

I once had a chat to a lady who was attempting to travel to the City one Sunday morning.  She had arrived at Oxley by bus but had missed the connection.  The next train next hour was cancelled.  Just didn't turn up. She had been waiting for around one hour 40 minutes.  She asked when the next train was coming.  I suggested in about 20 minutes, which did eventually turn up.  A trip to City would have taken this lady around 2 hours and 40 minutes from Inala. 

It is these sort of situations that really do demand that the frequency of rail and bus is sorted.

[ozbob]

This is the inbound timetable for Malvern on Sunday 7am to 11am.  The late start is being addressed by Metro for 2011.  The frequency is a lot better than many peak frequencies in SEQ ...

7:34
7:43
8:04
8:13
8:34
8:43
9:04
9:13
9:34
9:43
10:04
10:13
10:23
10:34
10:43
10:53
11:03

http://tt.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/tt/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST

[Stillwater]

Can't all of this good thinking (and similar efforts to plot 15-min frequency on the Beenleigh line) be fed into the community reference groups for these lines?  When will these groups meet next?

[#Metro]

It appears that Brisbane's off peak train frequency is stuck in permanent sunday timetable through the week.

Sunday timetables in Perth and Melbourne on the majority of lines in these cities are more frequent than weekday off peak timetables in Brisbane. Although a bit sparse in the morning, after about 10 am, Melbourne's train lines often have three trains per hour on most lines from looking at the timetables.

During the time I lived in Melbourne, I caught the SmartBus to the local station got a train and never bothered to look at the timetable.

[ozbob]

Even if Richlands is at a 30 minute off peak frequency, this means a much improved frequency from Darra inbound.  During peak express services will be possible as well.  Milton is a busy peak station and I think should be a stop on express services inbound and outbound.  Melbourne and Sydney have shown the way with pattern rationalisation and tier operation.  So if trains ran express Darra to Milton with stops at Indooroopilly and Toowong, assuming trains off the Richlands branch run the all stoppers, together with some Darra commencing and Redbank Ipswich commencing all stoppers everyone wins.  The real need will be to feed Darra properly with bus.  There was a question posed - do bus feeders need to continue on to Darra from Richlands?  Some might, particularly if frequency at Richlands is not high off peak.  This also allows punters to catch outbound services which are going to very frequent CBD to Darra at least and head to Richlands etc. in the gaps.

Time is running out ...   Be nice to know when the promised timetable consultation is to be ...

[somebody]

Not stopping at Oxley?  I don't see the need for buses like the 100, 462 to continue to Darra.  Richlands will do.

Time is running out ...   Be nice to know when the promised timetable consultation is to be ...

Seems like the opportunity for this not to be a window dressing exercise has passed.

[ozbob]

Not stopping at Oxley?

By my reckoning I don't think it is really going to matter.  Far better the long haul punters out past Darra have a shorter trip. The run in from Oxley is only 20 minutes and there will be plenty of trains with heaps of room too, as the Richlands branch trains will be all stoppers at Oxley.  Oxley will be a big winner out of this, 15 minute off peak frequency at long last for the Oxley mob I reckon.  I won't have to bother going to Corinda during the day  

[somebody]

Not stopping at Oxley?

By my reckoning I don't think it is really going to matter.  Far better the long haul punters out past Darra have a shorter trip. The run in from Oxley is only 20 minutes and there will be plenty of trains with heaps of room too

I think it would matter.  They then still have to contend with a slow train in peak.  Oxley is actually busier than Milton, with combined boardings & alightings.

I we aren't even talking about the more important issue here which is how fast the limited stop services will actually be?

[#Metro]

I we aren't even talking about the more important issue here which is how fast the limited stop services will actually be?

When is an express not an express? 
If the express is only express in name, what is the point?

[ozbob]

The present timetable is a mess (it is essentially the 1997 one).  I think come January there will be a rewrite.  I am sure express services will be back to good timings.  What has happened over the years the timetable has become full of misfits, padding, excessive dwells and the like to fit things in.

Depending on what the stopping patterns are between Darra and CBD I am confident that there will be good timings.  Say  around 16 minutes between Darra and CBD. 

[somebody]

Well, it is too late to do anything about it if it isn't, I would suggest.

I must say, that the current approach to timetabling, where gaps are intentionally left to be filled later, has to go.