UrbanLink/Expresslink

[somebody]

Their plans seem weird and vague.  In particular:
Ormeau Expresslink service would require another platform at Ormeau and only serves a few stations to Loganlea - I don't see the need to mess with the Beenleigh terminus
No Springfield Expresslink service by 2031?
Strathpine Urbanlink is only logical on the assumption that Trouts Rd goes all the way to the city via Kelvin Grove.  And really, Strathpine doesn't need all stopping trains, but they need to run express south of Northgate.
UrbanLink doesn't define a minimum frequency requirement, and neither do ExpressLink or CoastLink.  And in fact, the latter two do not even promise to improve frequency at all.

[colinw]

I interpret the whole UrbanLink/ExpressLink/CoastLink thing as a vague "strawman" type plan, which will be greatly refined over the years until it is implemented (if it is implemented).

I would, however, be interested to know what the rationale behind some of the proposed services is, as some of them are distinctly odd.

Specifically :-

- UrbanLink only to Loganlea, when surely Kingston (with 3 tracks already) or Beenleigh (which needs more platforms) are better candidates.
- The whole overlapping of UrbanLink, ExpressLink & CoastLink services on the Gold Coast.
- the Beerwah to Maroochydore UrbanLink service - Beerwah is a nowhere destination.
- the proposal to run a Ripley ExpressLink via Ipswich, and not even construct Springfield to Ripley.  What?!!!
- Browns Plains doesn't get UrbanLink at all?
- What point is there in building Trouts Road, then doglegging it via Bowen Hills along the current Ferny Grove line?  Alderley to Bowen Hills does not strike me as being particularly suitable for this use, nor would it be as easy to triple or quad.

Regarding UrbanLink from Coomera to Coolangatta, isn't that just going to compete with the light rail and also conflict with the idea of 160km/h services taking an hour to Coolangatta?  Rather than overlaying a suburban train service over the Gold Coast line, I think the coast would be better served by a consistent, frequent & fast express heavy rail service combined with further development of the light rail (e.g. spurs to Robina station, town centre & Bond Uni, and to Nerang via Carrara and Nerang Station, maybe Helensvale to Coomera town centre via the theme parks as well?)

[Stillwater]

The name of the game is cross-river rail.  It will be built at enormous cost, so the government had better get its costings correct.  In justifying cost, you must prove benefits that will exceed the cost (otherwise, why build?)  CoastConnect, ExpressLink and UrbanLink, therefore, become concepts only at this stage, but their inclusion in conceptual planning is an attempt to demonstrate 'what might be' rather than 'what will be'.  It is also a guide to planning, to be fair.  But it is way too soon to examine the nitty-gritty practicalities, because the planners are not there yet in their heads.  Has anyone seen costings for rail in the Trouts Road corridor?  That is expenditure that will come AFTER the CRR, so may be some time off.  Just the idea is a good vote-getter in the meantime.

[somebody]

The name of the game is cross-river rail.  

That's a needed project, but I do not think we want to go down the Sydney path where outside of peak hour, the public transport is largely pretty pathetic.

Back to topic, the whole floating of UrbanLink/ExpressLink/CoastLink seem to be making it sound like plans which are in fact easy, will be hard to implement.  ARGH!  The other possibility, of course, is that it is simply playing politics and marketing of something which they are going to do anyway, but the above mentioned limitations in the plans seem to indicate that possibility is false.

And even ExpressLink to Cleveland is (I expect) achievable now, since it doesn't promise to up the frequency.  Although it is a little difficult with only 2 platforms at Manly.

[somebody]

It is heartening that this plan has been put forward by the politicians.  However, there are numerous aspects which make things much harder than they need to be.  What is required most of all is 15 minute frequency to Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove, Kuraby, Manly, Darra and Petrie.  The 15 minutes to Darra will presumably be a happening thing once Richlands opens.  If the others don't occur by the next election, one must question the pollies commitment to implementing the plan.  I'm sorry, I don't see another way of looking at it.

Expresslink to Ormeau sounds like something of a sop to the Gold Coast people whinging that their train isn't express enough???  They need to get over it.  UrbanLink to Loganlea (presumably meaning 15 minute frequency, all stops) isn't really achievable without a lot of infrastructure so I say put it on the back burner for now.

I feel this is a suitable topic for a media release, but I'm a bit unsure about how it should be worded.  I'm probably not the best at these sorts of issues.

[ozbob]

...  If the others don't occur by the next election, one must question the pollies commitment to implementing the plan.  I'm sorry, I don't see another way of looking at it.

From now to the next state election, I think there will be immense pressure to increase performance - frequency and ticketing.

A failure to address these two basic fundamentals will ensure political oblivion, nothing surer IMHO.

A major issue to be sorted is freight.  The Caboolture and Sunshine Coast lines and the Western line it is an off peak limitation of sorts. But can be worked on.

[somebody]

By your ticketing comment I assume you mean capping?

I'd like to think frequency is a do or die for them, but I do not see the libs being better so it may not be.

[ozbob]

Better fare options all around.  The opposition will certainly move in that direction (they do have form in that area).

Frequency must be addressed.  There is another looming political force as well these days  besides ALP and LNP, the Greens.  One of the Greens planks is to buy back the Airtrain.  Light rail for inner Brisbane.  More support for public and active transport.  No doubt this might concentrate a few minds of all political persuasions.  The state election in Victoria might be a guide.

[#Metro]

The Beenleigh line is slow.
ExpressLink to/from Ormeau? Seems unnecessary and there really isn't anything out at Ormeau.

Possibile solution:

All Gold Coast trains run express from City-Woolloongabba-Park Rd(underground) then express to Beenleigh with no stops in between.

With the Beenleigh trains:

The Beenleigh line could be split into two tiers:
Tier #1: Beenleigh Express (all day)- City, Wooloongabba, Park Road, Yeerongpilly and then all stations to Beenleigh
Tier #2: Corinda/Yeerongpilly stopping at all stations. Service Terminates at Corinda/Yeerongpilly.

[somebody]

The Beenleigh line is slow.
ExpressLink to/from Ormeau? Seems unnecessary and there really isn't anything out at Ormeau.

Possibile solution:

All Gold Coast trains run express from City-Woolloongabba-Park Rd(underground) then express to Beenleigh with no stops in between.

With the Beenleigh trains:

The Beenleigh line could be split into two tiers:
Tier #1: Beenleigh Express (all day)- City, Wooloongabba, Park Road, Yeerongpilly and then all stations to Beenleigh
Tier #2: Corinda/Yeerongpilly stopping at all stations. Service Terminates at Corinda/Yeerongpilly.

Let's hope so, and I think you need to extend to at least Corinda, but I prefer Richlands.  Your Tier #1 isn't really an express though.  It is serving every station on the route.

I think the Ormeau suggestion is to give the Coasties a "more express" service.  Oh dear.

[Golliwog]

From Connecting SEQ, Ormeau was also shown to be a major park and ride station.

[somebody]

From Connecting SEQ, Ormeau was also shown to be a major park and ride station.

Pretty sure all the Gold Coast stations would fall in to that category.

[Stillwater]

Yes, Somebody, you are spot on .... if we don't get improvements to frequency in particular by the next election, we must question the pollies' commitment to implementing ExpressLink, UrbanLink etc.  This government is very good at marketing illusions.
I also find myself agreeing with OzBob re the need to sort out freight on the Sunshine Coast Line-North Coast Line.  For therein, in reality, lies the solution to passenger rail improvements in the short term now that duplication to Nambour and CAMCOS have both dropped off the agenda for the time being.
Just how much further can QR sweat that single-line track?  Its alignment is a drawback too.
The Tilt Train averages 55 km/hr Landsborough-Nambour.  Between Landsborough and Nambour, there are about 19 freight services per day.  Forecasts indicate that freight demand on the section of the NCL between Northgate and Nambour could grow to up to 348 services weekly by 2026.  That equates to approximately 50 services per day.
This assumes that the length of each freight train remains at about 650 metres, a figure governed by the length of the shortest passing loop at Palmwoods.  A program of lengthening passing loops would mean fewer and longer freight trains and the potential for more passenger train slots in between.
However, constructing passing loops on a poor alignment seems false economy, particularly with track duplication in the offing.
I quite like the idea put forward by someone else here that the worst sections of track around Eudlo be duplicated on the new alignment to create a 'very long passing loop' from north of Mooloolah to south of Palmwoods.  Proceed to duplicate Beerburrum-Landsborough.  Together, those improvements might give just enough slack for more frequent passenger services (trains, not buses) to Nambour.

[somebody]

The Tilt Train averages 55 km/hr Landsborough-Nambour. 

It's that bad?

I still think that the name of the game for the Sunshine Coast line is sorting out the bit to Landsborough.  From there it is not too onerous to extend the connecting buses, such as the one to Noosa down to Landsborough.

[ozbob]

The locals want rail services, and not an unreasonable expectation.  Agree the amplification to Landsborough is urgent and then progressive upgrades on the new alignment north of there as outlined above. That will keep pace.  The de-salination plant should be turned off for the now and cost savings put in to the Sunshine coast line.  It was the water panic that stopped Beerburrum to Landsborough ...   

[somebody]

The de-salination plant should be turned off for the now and cost savings put in to the Sunshine coast line.  It was the water panic that stopped Beerburrum to Landsborough ...   

I'm sure it is turned off.  Or do you have information to the contrary?

I always thought it was Bligh that panicked on the water, but some say it was actually Beattie.  Ah well, I guess it is spilt milk now.

[ozbob]

ABC News --> Desal plant defended amid overflowing dams

Gold Coast Bulletin --> Desal plant a $32k a day waste

[somebody]

Oh.  That's dumb.