New timetable - Gold Coast Beenleigh line

[ozbob]

Your suggestions please.

[ozbob]

First thing, triple all the way through to Beenleigh.  Get rid of the remaining single section around Coomera.

Then more peak flows possible with all stoppers and express patterns.

There is no doubt that the pressure is going to build steadily on the this line.  Cross River rail where are you?

[ozbob]

One way of running some more services in the peaks is to use the option of running through Tennyson.  Until the Cross River project happens it might well be necessary down the track.  It has been looked at seriously by QR and is definitely an option if future loadings demand it.

I have been on trains at peak down on the Ippy that have been diverted through Tennyson.  It is not unusual for services from the Gold Coast to be routed through Tennyson if problems between Yeerongpilly and town. Everything goes fine.  There is plenty of room between Sherwood and Town on the 4 tracks.

[stephenk]

First thing, triple all the way through to Beenleigh.  Get rid of the remaining single section around Coomera.

Then more peak flows possible with all stoppers and express patterns.

There is no doubt that the pressure is going to build steadily on the this line.  Cross River rail where are you?

4 tracks between Dutton Park and Banoon are required before 3 tracks all the way to Beenleigh. Otherwise the counter-peak/off-peak Beenleigh and/or Gold Coast frequencies will not be able to be less than around 20mins without slowing down the Gold Coast expresses.

The Merivale Bridge capacity will run out before 3 tracks are required between Bethania and Beenleigh. Bethania to Holmview/Beenleigh will need 3 tracks once Cross City rail releases track capacity through the CBD.

[somebody]

First thing, triple all the way through to Beenleigh.  Get rid of the remaining single section around Coomera.

I'd say that getting rid of the single section would be more important than the triplication, based on current timings which have this single section and the Airport one combining in a way that isn't pretty.  Cross river rail may change these timing in such a way that it is better or worse.  I'm not sure which way it would change.

4 tracks between Dutton Park and Banoon are required before 3 tracks all the way to Beenleigh. Otherwise the counter-peak/off-peak Beenleigh and/or Gold Coast frequencies will not be able to be less than around 20mins without slowing down the Gold Coast expresses.

Counter peak Beenleigh line trains could include expresses to allow 15 minute frequencies on the Beenleigh line.

[stephenk]

First thing, triple all the way through to Beenleigh.  Get rid of the remaining single section around Coomera.

I'd say that getting rid of the single section would be more important than the triplication, based on current timings which have this single section and the Airport one combining in a way that isn't pretty.  Cross river rail may change these timing in such a way that it is better or worse.  I'm not sure which way it would change.

4 tracks between Dutton Park and Banoon are required before 3 tracks all the way to Beenleigh. Otherwise the counter-peak/off-peak Beenleigh and/or Gold Coast frequencies will not be able to be less than around 20mins without slowing down the Gold Coast expresses.

Counter peak Beenleigh line trains could include expresses to allow 15 minute frequencies on the Beenleigh line.

Rather defeats the object of improving frequencies. But if the 4th track is not built then sadly it will be a choice of restricting counter/off-peak frequencies, or slowing down expresses. Not building the 4th track at the same time as the recent triplication was a big mistake, as is the forthcoming lack of 4th electrified track between Corinda and Darra. 

[somebody]

Counter peak Beenleigh line trains could include expresses to allow 15 minute frequencies on the Beenleigh line.

Rather defeats the object of improving frequencies. But if the 4th track is not built then sadly it will be a choice of restricting counter/off-peak frequencies, or slowing down expresses. Not building the 4th track at the same time as the recent triplication was a big mistake, as is the forthcoming lack of 4th electrified track between Corinda and Darra. 

Not really.  A Gold Coast train can be followed by Beenleigh train running express between Park Rd and Kuraby which is followed by an all stations to Kuraby train.  A second Kuraby train would be able to follow 15 minutes later which I would think would be clear of the following coastie.  Frequency admittedly is not improved south of Kuraby, but journey times compensate.

[stephenk]

Not really.  A Gold Coast train can be followed by Beenleigh train running express between Park Rd and Kuraby which is followed by an all stations to Kuraby train.  A second Kuraby train would be able to follow 15 minutes later which I would think would be clear of the following coastie.  Frequency admittedly is not improved south of Kuraby, but journey times compensate.

Both of the expresses would have to be slowed down in the above scenario, assuming expresses running South Bank to Kuraby 10mins faster than all stations, and a 3 min signalling headway. It would also give no operating margin.

[somebody]

Not really.  A Gold Coast train can be followed by Beenleigh train running express between Park Rd and Kuraby which is followed by an all stations to Kuraby train.  A second Kuraby train would be able to follow 15 minutes later which I would think would be clear of the following coastie.  Frequency admittedly is not improved south of Kuraby, but journey times compensate.

Both of the expresses would have to be slowed down in the above scenario, assuming expresses running South Bank to Kuraby 10mins faster than all stations, and a 3 min signalling headway. It would also give no operating margin.

Probably.  If you substituted Sunnybank or Rocklea for Kuraby it would work out.  In fact, it seems that the turnback at Sunnybank has had it's tracks removed.  There was no need for that to be done that I can see.

Another alternative would be a skip-stop, but it mightn't be too popular.

[mufreight]

Based on the timetabling sequences being proposed those people wishing to commute between intermediate stations, local commuters. would be considerably disadvantaged which would be a detriment to their use of the services and would result in these commuters being forced into using other forms of transport such as the car, not the most desirable outcome for public transport.      

[somebody]

Based on the timetabling sequences being proposed those people wishing to commute between intermediate stations, local commuters. would be considerably disadvantaged which would be a detriment to their use of the services and would result in these commuters being forced into using other forms of transport such as the car, not the most desirable outcome for public transport.      

I'm going to respond based on the hypothetical scenario that the Sunnybank turnback is restored (and at that, based on allowing a stand on the main line with a run around for through services), and also we don't get the quad tracks for the coasties.

For the scenario you are being concerned about, which is something like a Fairfield-Eden's Landing commute in the AM peak, you would need to get on an all stopper to Sunnybank, then change for a train which has expressed to Sunnybank and will run all stops to Eden's Landing.  Wait would be in the vicinity of 5 minutes.  The upside to what I was suggesting was that Fairfield-Rocklea or city or anywhere that needs to pass through Park Rd now has a 15 minute counter peak service as far as Sunnybank.

Two steps forward, one step back.

Of course, if we get a bit of quadding, then using that would mean we are able to run a 15 minute counter peak service all the way to Beenleigh.

[somebody]

Does anyone know why the Gold Coast trains express through Loganlea and Coopers Plains in the peak?  Is it to reduce overcrowding statistics?

[stephenk]

Does anyone know why the Gold Coast trains express through Loganlea and Coopers Plains in the peak?  Is it to reduce overcrowding statistics?

Probably, as both of the above are outside of the 20mins standing limit (which IMO needs to be increased to make more efficient use of infrastructure).

[somebody]

So, how to improve counter peak frequencies on the Beenleigh line?  Only options I see are a 15 minute frequency to either Yeerongpilly or Rocklea, and use either the Tennyson loop to Corinda, or the siding at Rocklea for every second train.  Seems like either would be too short a working to justify using up a city path.

WTF were they thinking when they demolished the Sunnybank turnback?

I suppose another option is to stop as far as Sunnybank and then run either express or empty to Kuraby

[somebody]

I thought I'd have a look at the GC/Beenleigh early morning weekday timetable.

Seems that it happens this way outbound:
4:50am GC train leaves Bowen Hills and uses non-express track
4:54am Beenleigh train leaves Bowen Hills
5:10am GC train leaves Bowen Hills and uses express (third) track, probably starting from Yeerongpilly - At Coopers Plains at 5:37am
5:24am Beenleigh train leaves Bowen Hills
5:28am GC train leaves Bowen Hills and uses third track from South Brisbane, getting to Coopers Plains at 5:56am and Loganlea at 6:13am
5:54am Beenleigh train leaves Bowen Hills

Normality approximately starts when the 5:54am Beenleigh train and 6:18am GC train leave Bowen Hills, although those trains have the wrong (non-clockface) timetable by 2 mins.

At Kuraby, first outbound Beenleigh train needs to wait for the second Gold Coast train.  Doh!!
The third GC train relies on the third track to pass the second Beenleigh train.

Heading inbound from Beenleigh:
4:27am all stopper
4:58am all stopper
5:09am GC express - passes the above train at Coopers Plains at 5:33am so this one must cross back to the non-express track after Coopers Plains.
5:26am all stopper
5:53am GC express - could use the non-express track


This timetable, if my reading of what it requires is correct, is really crazy!  The worst aspect is that if the 5:10am outbound GC train is delayed by even 2 minutes, that delay will propagate back to the inbound GC & Beenleigh train.  That raises the question of Robina stabling capacity, now up to 7 trains.  Current breakdown, ex-Varsity Lakes:
4:34am formed by 1st stabled train
5:18am formed by 2nd stabled train
5:48am formed by 3rd stabled train
6:02am formed by 4th stabled train
6:18am formed by 5th stabled train
6:33am formed by 6:17am arrival
6:48am formed by 6th stabled train
7:04am formed by 6:46am arrival
7:20am formed by 7:02am arrival
7:48am formed by 7th stabled train
8:18am formed by 7:48am arrival

So you can't can the 5:10am outbound unless the stabling is increased or a couple of services are 3 cars, or you cancel an inbound.  I don't know why they half did the job and expanded the stabling by only 2 6 car trains.  Other than the stabling problem, I would think the solution is to move the 5:10am GC train to the evening and re-time the 5:28am GC train.  The 5:10am would make far more sense at 8:48pm, and the 5:28am train would make more sense at around 5:50am, and the ex-Airport train could be re-timed to make this a single service.  

But without extra stabling, perhaps the best option would be to move the 5:10am outbound coastie later.  That way it won't need to overtake the outbound Beenleigh train.  Perhaps a service around 5:50am would be far better, but that requires re-timing or re-routing the Shorncliffe-Darra via Tennyson service which passes Bowen Hills at 5:47am.

[ClintonL94]

At Kuraby, first outbound Beenleigh train needs to wait for the second Gold Coast train.  Doh!!
The third GC train relies on the third track to pass the second Beenleigh train.

Perhaps the third track to Kingston(future project) will resolve this?

[somebody]

At Kuraby, first outbound Beenleigh train needs to wait for the second Gold Coast train.  Doh!!
The third GC train relies on the third track to pass the second Beenleigh train.

Perhaps the third track to Kingston(future project) will resolve this?

No, what that will resolve is the issue that you cannot run peak Gold Coast trains at 10 minute frequency, at least so long as the Coomera-Helensvale duplication is also done.

To resolve the issue in the quote, you need the Fairfield-Banoon quad, infrastructure like that, or a reasonable timetable.  What's easier?

[somebody]

Another critique of the Gold Coast timetable, how come the southbound frequency on a Sunday reduces to hourly from 6:17pm (ex-Bowen Hills) but then increases back to half hourly after 9:17pm?  Also, the current timetable requires a northbound empty on Sundays.  What would be more logical is for the 11:17pm service to run on Sundays as well as Saturdays, and a 5:17am service, combined with a northbound 7:18am (ex-Varsity Lakes).  That would balance the services and make them more consistent between Saturday and Sunday.