Brighton Branch Line

[somebody]

Possibly crazy suggestion:
Is it feasible to branch the Shorncliffe line after Deagon and then have a couple of underground stations in Brighton along Brighton Tce?  May remove the need for the 310 bus.

[Derwan]

They don't even have to be underground.  The line could follow the Deagon Deviation.  Ideally it could've then gone over the bridge to Redcliffe but it's a bit late now!  (I had a look at that and suggested it on here somewhere back before they started building the bridge.)

[somebody]

And branch off after North Boondall?  That proposal is OK, but it does seem to avoid most of the passengers which would use the service.

[Derwan]

It'd be great if we could have an underground web of lines, but when talking about cost effectiveness, line and station locations can't always be perfect.

Given that feeder buses can run to Sandgate, I don't think we'll see a Brighton line on its own.  If it was done as part of a Redcliffe line going over the new bridge, then I think it'd be worthwhile.

[somebody]

Feeder buses: Urgh! 

[#Metro]

There is another way to do it, just without using trains.
Make it a Bus Rapid Transit feeder line like the CityGlider (suggested name: Deagon Deviator!  )

Every 15 minutes, off-peak
When there is a train, it will connect with it
When there is no train, it will go to the next line (Carseldine?) and attempt to connect with a train there

And it can go over the bridge without building a new one.

Feed me!                   

[kw]

Being a resident of Brighton I posted this a while back on the forums    Here is a section from the "History of the Sandgate Railway" published by the Sandgate & District Historical Society & Museum that I thought was quite interesting.

- Kent

Over the years a lot has been said about a railway line to Redcliffe, in fact the proposal still exists to this date, but the extension in these times is to come from the Petrie area along the Pine River to Kippa Ring and much land had been resumed for the line. However the Telegraph (8/5/1895) reported a discussion at the Sandgate Council Meeting, when Alderman Bell moved that this council support the endeavours of the Redcliffe Board to have a trial survey made and an estimate of the cost prepared for a railway to Humpybong from Sandgate.

The Telegraph (5/8/1895) reported that the Minister for Railways, Hon. R. Philp visited Sandgate to inspect the proposed extension from Sandgate Central (now Sandgate) to Sandgate (now Shorncliffe), and also in regard to the proposed line to Humpybong. In regard to the latter matter, 3 proposals were considered. Brisbane to Humpybong line via North Pine (Petrie); the route via Sandgate and Brighton, with an expensive iron and steel bridge; the third was a branch from North Pine, crossing at Hay's inlet to Woody Point.

Certain difficulties associated with water crossing related to the necessity to build in iron and steel, as a marine infestation known as cobra would play havoc with wooden piles, while iron and steel would be prohibitive cost wise. As we all know, the upshot was a shelving of the plan for a time, which has extended over 100 years.

[colinw]

Back when I was a regular user of Railpage, I got myself thoroughly flamed for suggesting that a branch line could come off the Shorncliffe at North Boondall, thence following the Gateway Motorway & Deagon Deviation to terminate in the vicinity of where the Deagon Deviation meets the Hornibrook Highway .  Mind you, such a line would be of limited use unless extended across a bridge to Clontarf or beyond, and would have the disadvantage of diluting patronage on the existing Deagon/Sandgate/Shorncliffe section as well as competing with P-KR to a limited extent. At the time, I thought it would have made sense to preserve a corridor alongside the motorways, and engineer the new bridge to potentially take a rail line.

With P-KR going ahead, I think such a line is fantasy for the time being.  For now I'd rather see P-KR built and the Shorncliffe line duplicated all the way and decent frequency provided.

But, I think the corridor for such a line should be preserved for the long term. I think it is likely that the southern parts of Redcliffe will probably ignore Kippa-Ring and continue to access the rail system via Sandgate.  If that IS indeed the case, then for the foreseeable future decent bus-rail links to Sandgate must be provided from Redcliffe, and in the longer term some form of rail extension to Brighton & Southern Redcliffe should not be ruled out.

Who knows what possibilities may emerge in the next 30+ years as peak oil really begins to bite.  Maybe a line along the Deagon Deviation, or maybe Light rail from Sandgate right along the Brighton foreshore, across the bridge, through the heart of Redcliffe and on to Kippa-Ring perhaps?

In any case, this is all an argument for another day.  First, let's get the trains to Kippa-Ring rolling, and Sandgate - Shorncliffe duplicated.

[Jonno]

Well said/written

[somebody]

I think I'm going to stop using IE.  Had a response written and it lost it.

I think a bridge parallelling the Houghton Hwy is a fantasy at any time.  I wonder about a deep tunnel though.  May have some life safety issues there.

It's too late to preserve the corridor.  It's already been built on hasn't it, or at least most of it.

In any case, this is all an argument for another day.  First, let's get the trains to Kippa-Ring rolling, and Sandgate - Shorncliffe duplicated.

I don't follow.  If you don't want to discuss it, then don't.

[colinw]

I think I'm going to stop using IE.  Had a response written and it lost it.

I think a bridge parallelling the Houghton Hwy is a fantasy at any time.  I wonder about a deep tunnel though.  May have some life safety issues there.

It's too late to preserve the corridor.  It's already been built on hasn't it, or at least most of it.

It looks to me like there's plenty of room adjacent to the Gateway Motorway & Deagon Deviation.

In any case, this is all an argument for another day.  First, let's get the trains to Kippa-Ring rolling, and Sandgate - Shorncliffe duplicated.

I don't follow.  If you don't want to discuss it, then don't.

My clumsy way of saying I think its well down the list of priorities, and the aforementioned projects need to come first.

[somebody]

It looks to me like there's plenty of room adjacent to the Gateway Motorway & Deagon Deviation.

Yes, but how are you getting from there, across the racecourse, through some houses to the current line?

And wanting to do it depends on if you are terminating around Brighton, bridging or tunneling.

[somebody]

Also, I'm not sure if there is room through Nashville (did we really call a suburb that?), unless you cross the inlet there.

[colinw]

Looking at the map, there would be resumptions required in a couple of places, or to avoid cutting across a swathe of suburbia at Deagon you would need to put in a very tight curve at Boondall North and run parallel to the Gateway Motorway on the northern/eastern side.

All of which means that the option of a relatively direct line to Redcliffe was probably lost a long time ago.

[somebody]

All of which means that the option of a relatively direct line to Redcliffe was probably lost a long time ago.

There are still tunnel options.  And getting to the northern end of the Redcliffe peninsular via Petrie isn't that bad.  It's Clontarf that it's a completely unacceptable idea for.

[colinw]

...  It's Clontarf that it's a completely unacceptable idea for.

Indeed.  I very much suspect that the Petrie to Kippa-Ring line won't actually effect Redcliffe patronage from Sandgate very much at all.  Different market.  People in the Mango Hill, Rothwell, Kippa-Ring and other northern & western Redcliffe suburbs, etc. will use the new line.  I expect that many of the people who drive or catch a bus across the bridge to catch the train at Sandgate will continue to do so.

[mufreight]

Unfortunate as it may be a Brighton branch is simply beyond the budget and if demanded now would justify government once again reneging on the promised Kippa Ring line.
A few points worth considering.
Would this line have now been promised if Labor was not so desperate to stay in power both Federal and State.
It is now some 103 years since the line was first promised, as distinct from proposed.
It was a Labor government who in 1997 deferred commencing construction of the line indefinitely as not needed and then proposed selling off some of the alignment that they had purchased, it is understood that some of this land, outside of the actual rail corridor was actually subdivided off and sold.
When the Bruce Highway was realigned to bypass Petrie and Caboolture there was provision made for a rail underpass, whether or not it was actually constructed I have no knowledge but it is understood that the present government decided on a different alignment.
Prime Minister Gillard has said that there will be no Commonwealth money for this project until 2014 despite construction scheduled to be completed and the line commissioned by 2016.
Couple this with Premier Bligh stating also that the line will be in service 2016 but the State government would not be providing funding until after the next state election 2014.
How can the line be constructed in a two year timeframe?  Expert engineers who are currently or have been engaged in the construction of major rail infrastructure in this country say that the project would at best need some 4 to 5 years to construct, so if there is no funding until 2014 a 2016 commissioning date is just so much hot air.
The Caboolture to Landsbrough duplication which while impressive is too short to be of real benefit because work was halted when it reached Beerburrum.
Darra to Springfield originally scheduled for commissioning in 2011, then slipped back to a 2017 completion date as a cut down project to be built as single track from Richlands to Springfield and without the intermediate stations of Ellengrove and Springfield Lakes, the construction is now to be fast-tracked with a 2014 commissioning constructed as a double track line but without the intermediate stations.
Kippa Ring, On their track record of promises made in relation to rail infrastructure but not met I will believe that the current governments, both Federal and State will build the line the day I see a train pull into Kippa Ring station.

 

[#Metro]

I don't think we need a Brighton branch line. Just use BRT.

[somebody]

Yes mufreight.  It's the notion that neither side of politics is promising funding unless it wins two elections.

[colinw]

Anyone prepared to lay odds on Kippa-Ring actually going ahead this time?

[mufreight]

until such time as I see rail going down not one I would bet on with the current government, with a change in government I would give it a 100% chance of being started in 2014 and a 70/30 chance of being completed for the full length by 2018.