POLL: What changes do you want from the fare structure

[somebody]

Since there's been robust debate on this, what do you think?

[ozbob]

Good idea, but combinations may also be an option.  Still, a useful start point.

[colinw]

I voted "other".

By which I mean - I don't care as long as it is simple (easily understood) and consistent.

I don't think price is a major issue, apart from some notable gouges like Airtrain. I'm certainly not losing any sleep over the fares I'm paying now, except for Airtrain where I resent paying that much for a train which doesn't conveniently meet my needs.

Regarding normal TransLink services I would even pay 30% or so more quite happily if it gave me the option of quarter hourly or better services. (Note to Anna & Rachel - when prices go up next year, where's my quarter hourly train?).  What I do object to is paying a fair fare, then copping an unfair service (missed connections, non-integration, etc).

Capping I think should primarily apply for seniors & students.  Those with full time work can well afford to pay for the service, as long as it is priced to be cheaper than running a car.

[Gazza]

I think the only major improvement I could think of is extending price capping to students, since along with seniors, they are a user group that does proportionally more hopping about than other user groups.

Might as well go through what I think of the options.

daily cap

Probably the most logical option if you were looking to implement one thing from this list.

weekly cap

No, because it would inevitably mean weekend PT services would collect no money, bleeding them dry. I don't agree with people only paying 5 days out of 7. Weekend PT should generally be set at a lower price than weekday peak times, but certainly not free!

frequent user discount applying at <10 journeys

Frequently, the example is cited of people who travel less than 10 journeys (5 days) per week not getting a discount, but a few things to consider.

-We don't actually know the numbers of people doing 10 trips per week exactly, versus people doing less than this, and this is crucial for making a decision.
I remember bob saying over 90% of people don't end up going over 10 trips per week.

But say it turns out that say 80% of people do 10 exactly....If the frequent user discount kicked in before 10 then all you would end up doing is be widely discounting something most would've used anyway.

-If they are not using it 5 days/10 journeys per week then there is probably a good reason anyway,.....they may not work 5 days per week, they may do activities on other days that PT isn't convenient for etc. Making the discount kick in sooner won't change this behaviour.

-If they aren't using it 10 journeys per week or more than they aren't really a true frequent user, and don't deserve a discount.

higher off peak discount

Again, if we want to encourage off peak usage services need to be better, not cheaper. (And, as I've said, trying to ask for both better and cheaper wouldn't be taken seriously) People continue to stick to peak hour commutes because of the gradient effect.

lower flag fall component

Possibly. As I calculated in another thread, the current break even point for PT being worthwhile for a one zone short trip is 3-6km, which is slightly too high IMO.

lower number of zones

I think we have it right actually. Places like Melbourne have only 2 zones, and it means there is too much of a jump in price between Z1 and Z2, so people do silly things like drive over zone boundaries to make the most of cheaper fares rather than just using the station closest to them for instance. Our system has fairy gentle steps down in price levels, so this effect is eliminated. No fundamental problems at the moment.

flat rate

Absolutely not! If I'm only doing a short hop from say Toowong to the CBD, then it follows that I should pay less than someone coming all the way from say Rosewood! It is simply not possible to set a good equilibrium price if its a flat fare. Too high and you punish people who make short hops, too low and long distance lines become a massive burden. I think our zonal system actually works pretty well actually.
I reckon much of the reason PT in the USA is a mess is because they persist in this model of "$1.25 per ride" no matter what the distance, so they collect barely any money.

per km distance charging

Probably needlessly complex, and provides less predictability on the cost of a journey. Our Zonal structure is fine.

I don't care so long as it is cheaper
No. Any effort to make it cheaper would only be cents in the dollar, so not enough to be worth it, and certainly not enough to actually influence anybody decision making. Any more than this and the subsidy starts increasing by a significant amount.
Plus the people who need PT most (Students and Seniors) already get it very cheap, and there is no denying that.

I don't think price is a major issue, apart from some notable gouges like Airtrain. I'm certainly not losing any sleep over the fares I'm paying now, except for Airtrain where I resent paying that much for a train which doesn't conveniently meet my needs.

This this this this this!

Lets be honest here. How many of us have ever decided to change when/how we travel based around the limits of the fare structure? I'd say almost never....I certainly haven't.
What makes anyone think that the general population thinks this way?

I'm very just travel when I need to, and have never rearranged my life in order to take advantage of some piddling 10-15% saving. In fact, GoCard has pretty much disconnected me from thinking about what I'm paying, I just use services as I need them.

[somebody]

I definitely agree with the sentiment of "absolutely not" to flat rate.  Another posted has suggested it before, so I thought I'd put it in, to see if they or anyone would support it.

[ozbob]

My observations over the last few years is that the populist voice is for daily capping, and then periodical options. This is not entirely unexpected as it is what many are conditioned too.  The poll here confirms that view as well.

The political reality is that one of the major parties will probably move in this direction coming into election 2012.  What will be interesting is will the populist voice change between then and now and will that make the fare structure less of an issue?  Not sure yet ...

[ozbob]

Poll so far ..

daily cap    - 8 (44.4%)
weekly cap    - 3 (16.7%)
frequent user discount applying at <10 journeys    - 2 (11.1%)
higher off peak discount    - 2 (11.1%)
lower flag fall component    - 0 (0%)
lower number of zones    - 2 (11.1%)
flat rate    - 0 (0%)
per km distance charging    - 0 (0%)
I don't care so long as it is cheaper    - 0 (0%)
other - please explain    - 1 (5.6%)

[somebody]

+1 vote for daily cap (not me)

I'm certainly not losing any sleep over the fares I'm paying now, except for Airtrain where I resent paying that much for a train which doesn't conveniently meet my needs.

I also resent paying $2.07 for a trip from Central to Fortitude Valley.  Although not enough to think about walking it!

[O_128]

Free travel between the same zone would be nice