Sunnybank-Browns Plains Line

[somebody]

I used Google Earth.

Whoa, where'd you draw the lines to and from?  I get about a 2km difference with that too.

[stephenk]

Stephenk, thanks for your post.

Tramtrain, whilst you have obviously put in a lot of effort to try and justify the unjustifiable (you must have a lot of spare time on your hands), you have missed two major show shoppers to your Mains Rd idea.

Disappointingly, but not unsurprisingly, another paragraph of disrespecful, shameless, ad-hominem attack that does not need to be there and should be removed. Its not the first time either. Last time around you attacked the proposal as being "Ill researched". Now you've got all the working out and justifications, you attack it as too researched. It was you who recommended reading Vucan Vuchic, wasn't it? How ridiculous. And an attempt to construct a straw-man proposal to knock down regarding a tunnel.

As for property resumptions, you might want to look at the following. 300 properties for the first stage of the Eastern Busway.

More than 300 households affected by the construction of a new busway in Brisbane's east are paying the price of progress, Queensland Premier Anna Bligh says.

She said residents had already been consulted and presented today's announcement in positive terms, saying it brought, "not a lot of surprises, but certainty''.

"Yes I do expect compulsory resumptions and I do expect that for some people this is going to be very painful,'' Ms Bligh told reporters in Brisbane today.

"This is one of the realities of building large infrastructure like a busway in an area that is already built-up like the Stones Corner-Buranda area.''

Ms Bligh said the government would aim to acquire properties voluntarily.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/300-homes-to-be-resumed-for-eastern-busway/2008/06/05/1212258970171.html

2) There is a large new town planned called Greater Flagstone which is bang on the SG alignment. This is probably the only reason why a commuter rail line on the SG line may be suggested in forthcoming documents by the Government. This new town rather puts the weight in favour of the SG alignment.

Not at all. The line proposal finishes at browns plains. The Sunnybank-Browns Plains line could be extended into the SG corridor after Browns Plains to serve Greater Flagstone if required.

Of course, a proper transport options investigation into all possibilities, by government is what's required.

Rather than playing the victim, may I suggest making more realistic and justified statements which would not result in such negative opinions and requests for justification of your ideas from others. This is yet another fantasy thread that is yet again seriously reducing the credibility of this forum.


Back to the above quotes:

Just because 300 homes may be demolished for the Eastern Busway, does not justify demolishing over 600 homes for your latest grand plan can be justified. 600 is a 100% increase over 300. That's quite a difference!

Also, from which source did you get this statement from - "The line proposal finishes at browns plains"?

[#Metro]

Rather than playing the victim, may I suggest making more realistic and justified statements which would not result in such negative opinions and requests for justification of your ideas from others. This is yet another fantasy thread that is yet again seriously reducing the credibility of this forum.

No. There is no excuse for abuse. Ever.

It sets a precedent. There is an act of parliament that allows it. The houses do not have infinite value.
Airport link did it, the Eastern Busway did it, and so did the Sydney Harbour Bridge.
Perhaps the Sydney Harbour Bridge should have been built on a different alignment?

If people disagree, that's fine. I understand that this is a controversial idea. But it is worth discussing - 4 pages of discussion now.
Discussing ideas is not what brings "standards" down.
Deriding others ideas, shameless ad hom attacks and disgusting put downs such as "fantasy files" etc does.

Indeed there are no such specific "standards" regarding justification you refer to. They don't exist. There is no such requirement.
Indeed there is a warning that infomation on this site may not be complete etc.
If you don't like the idea, and don't want to waste time on it, then don't post in that thread. Simple.

You asked for the info, and I gave it. There is more justification in these posts than any other posts on the forum!
I can do no further.
I have put my case. We just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Take responsibility for your posts.

[stephenk]

Rather than playing the victim, may I suggest making more realistic and justified statements which would not result in such negative opinions and requests for justification of your ideas from others. This is yet another fantasy thread that is yet again seriously reducing the credibility of this forum.

No. There is no excuse for abuse. Ever.

It sets a precedent. There is an act of parliament that allows it. The houses do not have infinite value.
Airport link did it, the Eastern Busway did it, and so did the Sydney Harbour Bridge.
Perhaps the Sydney Harbour Bridge should have been built on a different alignment?

If people disagree, that's fine. I understand that this is a controversial idea. But it is worth discussing - 4 pages of discussion now.
Discussing ideas is not what brings "standards" down.
Deriding others ideas, shameless ad hom attacks and disgusting put downs such as "fantasy files" etc does.

Indeed there are no such specific "standards" regarding justification you refer to. They don't exist. There is no such requirement.
Indeed there is a warning that infomation on this site may not be complete etc.
If you don't like the idea, and don't want to waste time on it, then don't post in that thread. Simple.

You asked for the info, and I gave it. There is more justification in these posts than any other posts on the forum!
I can do no further.
I have put my case. We just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Take responsibility for your posts.

Tramtrain, I think you are confusing criticism and abuse. If members of this forum were to start calling you names or making threats - then that would be abuse. Criticising your posts is not abuse. You are causing your own victimisation.

If you wrote a university essay with such poorly justified and ill thought out ideas and statements, you would get marked down severely or even fail. Would you then accuse your lecturer of abuse?

It's a free world, and you can say what you like in this world within reason, but you have to be prepared to take criticism if you come out with statements are different to popular thinking, lack common sense, or cannot be reasonably justified. I am very concerned that the increase in fantasy threads is reducing the credibility of this forum. I am not the only person with this opinion as other users have stated the same opinion. In fact, at a public consultation meeting recently, an influential person in Brisbane public transport planning told me that his team regularly have a laugh at the outlandish ideas stated on this forum. This I find quite disturbing.

[#Metro]

Tramtrain, I think you are confusing criticism and abuse. If members of this forum were to start calling you names or making threats - then that would be abuse. Criticising your posts is not abuse. You are causing your own victimisation.

If you wrote a university essay with such poorly justified and ill thought out ideas and statements, you would get marked down severely or even fail. Would you then accuse your lecturer of abuse?

It's a free world, and you can say what you like in this world within reason, but you have to be prepared to take criticism if you come out with statements are different to popular thinking, lack common sense, or cannot be reasonably justified. I am very concerned that the increase in fantasy threads is reducing the credibility of this forum. I am not the only person with this opinion as other users have stated the same opinion. In fact, at a public consultation meeting recently, an influential person in Brisbane public transport planning told me that his team regularly have a laugh at the outlandish ideas stated on this forum. This I find quite disturbing.

Take responsibility for your posts stephenk. "Blaming the victim" is not an excuse. Do you honestly believe that saying things like "Bulimia Line" (somehow referring to sufferers of bulimia, an eating disorder with ill conceived rail proposals) and words such as "pathetic" and "fantasty file",  "not worth wasting breath" do anything to help the cause of this forum? Do you?

Justification?
Not at all. No level of justification and research will satisfy those who profess to make such demands. No level whatsoever. Impossible.
You speak about free speech and yet seem to almost want to censor any discussion whatsoever about "ill concieved" ideas. I can't prevent other people from having a laugh, and I think it reflects rather poorly on such individuals as it is to treat every day users of Brisbane's PT system with contempt.

This isn't a university. I'm not writing an uni essay. There are no restrictions on what qualifications one holds to post here. We come as we are.
All I'm interested is discussing PT proposals and ideas. I shouldn't have to write things like this. I'm sure you have some good ideas of your own, it would be good to hear those for a change than the constant stream of non-constructive criticism.

[STB]

I'll just be general.  While I can see good things with TramTram's proposal, such as a reasonably medium to high density (in due course) being serviced by rail, and the chance to expand the existing railway system.  There are drawbacks, which in this case seem to outdo the positives, namely an existing railway line that is nearby that can easily service the surrounding area in time with some modifications, duplication and quadding on the existing Beenleigh line in order to cope with the extra passenger and freight traffic, proposing a new line near an existing line is simply bad planning, and that's how I see it from a former professional in the industry, I once worked for.

All ideas are meant to be critcised, including this one, both in the negative and positive.  I can see both sides of the argument, I may make an observation and some advice.  I know from working in the industry (I am a former Transport Planner), if crazy, out of the box ideas come to hand then it is ignored.  Constant crazy, out of the box ideas from the same source, then we would've just thrown it in the bin and ignored the source completely from therein.  I can see Stephen's argument that these sorts of ideas can damage credibility and from my experience I would tend to agree.  Similar things occured with the PTUA in Melbourne and upon asking the paid experts and managment when I made a trip to Melbourne (while still working as a Transport Planner), they said the same thing and the PTUA was put on the blackban list, even if the PTUA would like to think otherwise.  I wouldn't like to see this happen with this group as these groups need to exist, however, the lobby group does need to show some sort of authority through research in order to be taken seriously by the people who can create change.  

Additionally, in my opinion, online fights aren't going to help the credibilty either.

[#Metro]

Thanks for your post STB. Its a good example of constructive criticism and I accept it.
I have put the research/working out out there for all to see. There are many more harmful things in the world than RailBOT forum posts.
I hope that its realised that each poster puts their own opinion and that it does not necissarily reflect the "official" position of RailBOT on things- which in my mind (I'm happy to be corrected) is what goes out in the Media Releases.

Unlike the PTUA, I'm not a lobbyist and I catch PT daily. There are my thoughts- I know that they will not be agreed to be everyone, and I don't expect them to be. It would be great if the experts came on and chat to their customers.
Jim Betts, head of the department of Infrastructure did such a thing fielding Q & As on RailPage.

I know for a fact that one or two government people did have a look at this thread. I was embarrassed to see later in the afternoon that it had become festooned with negative responses and that they had to read through all those.

That should be all.

[ozbob]

Time we moved on.  Thread locked.

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