Top Up Failure

[stephenk]

I has an interesting issue whilst topping up at an AVVM this morning. As I swiped my Go-Card to top up, I got an error message, and the screen went back to the menu page. I instantly checked the balance, and the top up had not occurred. Thankfully I still had credit, so could start a journey, but if I was in negative balance I would not have been able to swipe on, and could potentially have risked a fine.

During the day I checked that my EPTPOS had been debited, and the Go-Card website showed a pending top-up. The top up was added when I swiped on for my journey home.

My main concern here is could someone be fined for travelling without a swipe on, if they cannot start a journey due to a top-up failure leaving them in negative balance?

[ozbob]

I think in this situation commonsense would prevail.  There is a history on the card and it is clear that is a failure.  I don't think it is essentially any different from the actual policy of travelling for free if unable to touch on.  This could be interpreted as unable to touch due to a failure of an AVVM that prevents top up?

[somebody]

I think in this situation commonsense would prevail.  There is a history on the card and it is clear that is a failure.  I don't think it is essentially any different from the actual policy of travelling for free if unable to touch on.  This could be interpreted as unable to touch due to a failure of an AVVM that prevents top up?

But where would the proof be that you had attempted to top up?

I'd think in that situation at present you would be expected to buy a cash fare, and use a non-pre paid service.  But I have no idea if TL have even thought about what to do without cash fares then.

[ozbob]

Proof is not needed, similar to when you cannot touch on due to reader failure. Proof is if you like the fact the machine failed, if one was particularly paranoid take some happy snaps ... You are not required to buy a ticket etc.  If challenged state the circumstances, and the AVVM can be checked as needed.  Besides, our intrepid punter may not have cash, completely dependent on cards to charge for top up and so forth.   If TransLink haven't got a policy they better get one.  Often the AVVMs are on the blink, and with the busway stations going conductor-less soon, it is going to be a constant issue.

[Mozz]

Similar to my previous posts on what consititues cash - if you have 5 x $2 coins and the machine doesn't accept coins and there are no staff around, what do you do? Or if you have 2 x $5 notes and the machine doesn't accept notes what do you do?

[stephenk]

I think in this situation commonsense would prevail.

Sadly a few Transit Officers will (as with any profession) lack common sense.

I'd think in that situation at present you would be expected to buy a cash fare, and use a non-pre paid service.

But why I should I pay for an over-inflated paper ticket fare because of a Translink equipment malfunction? As mentioned, what will happen once paper tickets are phased out?

[ozbob]

I will raise this at the Go card CRG ...

[longboi]

Similar to my previous posts on what consititues cash - if you have 5 x $2 coins and the machine doesn't accept coins and there are no staff around, what do you do? Or if you have 2 x $5 notes and the machine doesn't accept notes what do you do?

Buy a ticket when you get to your destination. Be sure to raise the issue with a QR staff member if you can so they can inform the correct people to have it repaired and so TOs are informed of the error and you don't get a fine.

[mufreight]

Delay the train by advising the guard before boarding to commence your journey, the guard can then advise control who can in turn advise Translink who can then in turn advise both cubic and the TTO's
Seems from the additional services provided to the Gold Coast that the squeeky wheel that is most prepared to inconvenience others to get a favourable result for themselves get the most attention.       or alternatively use a  and pay track access charges   

[somebody]

But why I should I pay for an over-inflated paper ticket fare because of a Translink equipment malfunction? As mentioned, what will happen once paper tickets are phased out?

Perhaps because you have gambled that the last available machine which you need to top up at will be functional?  Perhaps if you get a run of non-functional machines, then you could be pretty annoyed.

I'm comfortable with the idea of getting rid of weeklies and monthlies, and maybe even dailies. But I think that the singles should definitely stay.

[dwb]

A bus driver would not know the history of the failed top up, you cannot just walk on to the bus like a train, so it is less about the TOs than the drivers.

But this is essentially the same question I asked the other day about when you are stuck in the burbs, or haven't used your card for ages and you go to catch a service and have no credit... it represents a real need for BT to change policy position and allow onboard topups!

I know there are (perceived) issues with carrying cash on board for robbery, threat of robber and danger to the drivers, but presumably the top up to Go card could be a "no change given" process and the money could be directly inserted into a little safe bolted to the bus that the driver has no capacity to open. There would in effect be no cash held by the driver and the bus would not have to stop at any stage during the day to offload or change cash (I've seen drivers darting off a running bus before into a seven eleven to change a $20!).

[stephenk]

But why I should I pay for an over-inflated paper ticket fare because of a Translink equipment malfunction? As mentioned, what will happen once paper tickets are phased out?

Perhaps because you have gambled that the last available machine which you need to top up at will be functional?  Perhaps if you get a run of non-functional machines, then you could be pretty annoyed.

Is it really a gamble? Should I allow Translink to continuously earn interest on at least $5.40 of my hard earned money, just in case an AVVM is not working.

[somebody]

Should I allow Translink to continuously earn interest on at least $5.40 of my hard earned money.

Why not?  You allow them to earn interest on the deposit money??  Is that really the biggest deal; I use auto-top up.  It works fine and I don't have to think about it.

[stephenk]

Should I allow Translink to continuously earn interest on at least $5.40 of my hard earned money.

Why not?  You allow them to earn interest on the deposit money??  Is that really the biggest deal; I use auto-top up.  It works fine and I don't have to think about it.

I never paid a deposit, Translink paid it  

[somebody]

I never paid a deposit, Translink paid it  

That comment makes little sense to me.  Did you get a free Go Card or something?

[ozbob]

Media Release 26 April 2010

SEQ:  Conductors being removed from busway stations

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said bus commuters need to be aware that changes at bus stations with ticket machines will occur from Tuesday 27th April 2010.  Conductors will no longer be selling tickets at peak times (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Some of our members have raised concerns as to what bus commuters who are unable to purchase a ticket or top up a go card due to an AVVM (ticket) machine failure will do when conductors are no longer around considering that a number of bus stations are prepaid only at peak times.  Can they travel without a ticket?  It is an offence to travel without a ticket unless there is a reasonable excuse. Clearly if a person is unable to purchase a ticket due to a machine failure, and the fact that go cards cannot be topped up on Brisbane Transport buses there is the potential for passengers to be stranded.  Under these circumstances is it reasonable to travel without a ticket? This needs to be clarified by TransLink."

"A recent report of top-up failure with an AVVM further highlights the problem (2)."

"Clearly the best option is for commuters to obtain a go card, register it and activate auto-topup.  This overcomes most of these issues, however many people do not want to do that. During the transition from paper tickets to a 100% go card ticketing environment problems such as we have described need to considered in an empathetic manner by TransLink and Transit Officers."

References:

1.  http://www.translink.com.au/servicechange.php?id=569

2.  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3749.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[stephenk]

I never paid a deposit, Translink paid it  

That comment makes little sense to me.  Did you get a free Go Card or something?

Yes, for feedback purposes.

By the way, what ever happened to the mass Go-Card giveaway that Translink promised a long time ago? Are these go-cards being delivered on one of the non-existant 83,000 new services a week?

[#Metro]

Its probably one of those phantom services again.
Or maybe they went out to uni students.