Exhibition Service

[somebody]

Currently, during Ekka, my understanding (from another thread) is that a loop service runs Roma St - Central - Fortitude Valley - Exhibition - Roma St.  There's no problem here off peak, but this reduces capacity in the AM peak for trains from the Ipswich line. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to extend trains terminating on Roma St #8 to stop at Exhibition rather than return directly to Mayne?  This means that there is no rail service from Exhibition to Roma St in the AM peak, and pax will need to use one of the bus services from there, but is that really an issue?  It would be hard to service Exhibition from the other side in the AM peak, but one possibility would be to redirect some Ipswich line Bowen Hills terminators that way, and then have them continue to Milton, either empty or in service.

In the PM peak, it's less obvious what the best solution is, but it seems that some loop services could continue, but be supplemented by back-extending some Roma St starters to Exhibition.

All this is important as the need for the Exhibition 2 station in the cross river rail project seems to be eliminated by all this.  I don't mind the station, it's the deviation I don't like.

[stephenk]

Currently, during Ekka, my understanding (from another thread) is that a loop service runs Roma St - Central - Fortitude Valley - Exhibition - Roma St.  There's no problem here off peak, but this reduces capacity in the AM peak for trains from the Ipswich line. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to extend trains terminating on Roma St #8 to stop at Exhibition rather than return directly to Mayne?  This means that there is no rail service from Exhibition to Roma St in the AM peak, and pax will need to use one of the bus services from there, but is that really an issue?  It would be hard to service Exhibition from the other side in the AM peak, but one possibility would be to redirect some Ipswich line Bowen Hills terminators that way, and then have them continue to Milton, either empty or in service.

In the PM peak, it's less obvious what the best solution is, but it seems that some loop services could continue, but be supplemented by back-extending some Roma St starters to Exhibition.

I was under the impression that Ekka loop services do not start until after the am peak anyway. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

All this is important as the need for the Exhibition 2 station in the cross river rail project seems to be eliminated by all this.  I don't mind the station, it's the deviation I don't like.

It could be the other way around. Post new tunnel, and underground Exhibition 2 station, or a surface Exhibition station with extra tracks (to avoid capacity constraints) would totally eliminate the need for the Ekka loop services. Exhibition would only need to be served by the station on the new cross river rail line. Elimination of the Ekka loop services would give 6 extra northbound pm peak track slots on the mains (towards Caboolture), and provide more one seat journeys to/from Exhibition than at present (Shorncliffe, Doomben, Airport, Gold Coast). Passengers for other destinations would change at Central/Roma St (depending on which is chosen).

[ozbob]

Yes, the Ekka doesn't open till 9am, from memory the Ekka Loops start a little bit before that.

Some lines on some days have direct Ekka services as well.  Eg Ipswich to Exhibition direct via Milton.

And each year train passengers pay an additional fare.  At least with CRR that impost will go ...

[#Metro]

Ah, so that is where the funding for the CRR tunnels was coming from.
Ekka train tax...

[somebody]

Post new tunnel, and underground Exhibition 2 station, or a surface Exhibition station with extra tracks (to avoid capacity constraints) would totally eliminate the need for the Ekka loop services.

But couldn't this be the whole reason for the Exhibition 2 station?  Wouldn't a more direct routing be better for north line users 50 weeks of the year?

[stephenk]

Post new tunnel, and underground Exhibition 2 station, or a surface Exhibition station with extra tracks (to avoid capacity constraints) would totally eliminate the need for the Ekka loop services.

But couldn't this be the whole reason for the Exhibition 2 station?  Wouldn't a more direct routing be better for north line users 50 weeks of the year?

Would the new route be less direct? If the surface route was chosen minus Bowen Hills (which can't realistically be built on this alignment) and going to Central, then there would be one stop between Albion and Central compared to two at present. Track distance may be a bit longer, but I would suspect that journey times between Albion and Central would be very similar.

If the more sensible underground option is constructed (with Bowen Hills, assuming Spring Hill has been dropped), then there would longer journey times between Albion and Central, but only by one or two minutes.

[somebody]

I was thinking about something which went from Spring Hill to Bowen Hills direct.  Assuming Spring Hill is built.

[stephenk]

I was thinking about something which went from Spring Hill to Bowen Hills direct.  Assuming Spring Hill is built.

I think there are major benefits of freeing up 6tph on the mains by elimination of Ekka loop services.

[somebody]

I was thinking about something which went from Spring Hill to Bowen Hills direct.  Assuming Spring Hill is built.

I think there are major benefits of freeing up 6tph on the mains by elimination of Ekka loop services.

And I was wondering if this could be done in other ways.  Make sense now?

BTW, are you talking about in the AM peak, PM peak, off peak or both peaks?

[stephenk]

I was thinking about something which went from Spring Hill to Bowen Hills direct.  Assuming Spring Hill is built.

I think there are major benefits of freeing up 6tph on the mains by elimination of Ekka loop services.

And I was wondering if this could be done in other ways.  Make sense now?

BTW, are you talking about in the AM peak, PM peak, off peak or both peaks?

PM peak, and no, I don't think that 6tph can be eliminated by other means without also eliminating pm CBD to Ekka services.

[somebody]

I guess it depends on which is the dominant direction in the PM peak, or if both directions are heavily trafficked.  Is it to/from the Ekka?  If from the Ekka, curtailing loops back to 4tph with some Roma St starters back extended may work.

Besides, north lines aren't as busy in peak as the South ones, and neither is the PM peak as frequent as the AM one.

[stephenk]

I guess it depends on which is the dominant direction in the PM peak, or if both directions are heavily trafficked.  Is it to/from the Ekka?  If from the Ekka, curtailing loops back to 4tph with some Roma St starters back extended may work.

Besides, north lines aren't as busy in peak as the South ones, and neither is the PM peak as frequent as the AM one.

The northbound mains run 11tph + 1tilt train between 17:00 and 17:59. The southbound mains in the am peak run 13tph. Not too much of a difference. I'm sure Caboolture Line passengers would love to see 17tph in the pm peak if Ekka loop services were eliminated.

[somebody]

What I meant is the combined Caboolture, Nambour, Shorncliffe, Airport, Doomben and Ferny Grove is less busy in peak than the combined Cleveland, Beenleigh, Gold Coast and Ipswich.
OTOH, that was 9, 2, 3, 4, 2, 7 vs 9, 8, 4, 13 tph respectively.  Or 27tph vs 34tph.

I'm sure Caboolture Line passengers would love to see 17tph in the pm peak if Ekka loop services were eliminated.

Obviously, though, it's not the Ekka services which are restricting service to Caboolture.

[Derwan]

Wouldn't it make more sense to extend trains terminating on Roma St #8 to stop at Exhibition rather than return directly to Mayne? 

I always assumed that most services terminating at Roma St during the AM peak would then head out to a terminus station for the run in.  That's certainly the case for Bowen Hills terminators.  They then head straight out to Petrie, Caboolture or Shorncliffe to do another inbound run.

[Otto]

I always assumed that most services terminating at Roma St during the AM peak would then head out to a terminus station for the run in.  That's certainly the case for Bowen Hills terminators.  They then head straight out to Petrie, Caboolture or Shorncliffe to do another inbound run.

I always thought the Bowen Hills terminators would then enter Mayne yards via 1 of 2 available paths depending on which platform they use at BH.

[somebody]

I think both things occur.  Some run empty to form another service, but in the latter part of the AM peak, where Ekka service would be more important, many would run to Mayne.