Article: Station could replace 10,000 cars

[ozbob]

From Brisbanetimes click here!

Station could replace 10,000 cars

Station could replace 10,000 cars
Tony Moore | June 13, 2008 - 5:00AM

Reopening Exhibition railway station to commuters would provide an ideal transport gateway to the inner-city, but the State Government is refusing to consider the move.

More than 600 staff from the Royal Brisbane, Women's and Children's hospitals park in a private area of the RNA Showgrounds - right beside the Royal Brisbane Hospital - while the adjoining train station sits idle.

A large share of the 10,000 people who work in the area fight for spaces at three paid parking facilities on the Herston site - one at Bramston Terrace, one at Butterfield Street and another on Herston Road.

Hospital staff have reportedly made repeated requests to have the railway station opened.

One staff member said yesterday: "Most days, we are a city of 12,000 people on this site."

Brisbane City Council has also recently opened a "five-green-star" building on nearby St Paul's Terrace.

The State Government has spent $333 million on building the Inner Northern Busway (INB) from Roma Street Station to Royal Brisbane Hospital.

A spokesman for acting Transport Minister Paul Lucas this week said the busway reduced the need for a rail line from the city's southside, but said the idea had some merit from Brisbane's northside.

Rail lobby group Rail: Back on Track has again asked for the Exhibition rail line to be opened to commuters as part of an inner-city rail link - an idea which was swamped with positive feedback from readers on brisbanetimes.com.au.

They suggested Exhibition Station be included in a high-frequency commuter rail service through Brunswick Street, Central, South Bank, Yeerongpilly, Indooroopilly, Roma Street and back to Exhibition.

Queensland Transport said only that the issue was part of a review of Brisbane's inner-city rail network, which is due "mid-year".

It has been suggested that the RNA site be used as large park-and-ride facility for the Exhibition rail line.

Mr Lucas' spokesman said park-and-ride facilities were more effective further away from the CBD.

But RNA chief executive officer Jonathan Tunny said the RNA wanted Exhibition Station opened to commuters.

He suggested shifting the railway station closer to Bowen Bridge Road as part of the long-term development of the site.

But he acknowledged any decision to open the rail line to everyday commuters would require discussions with Queensland Rail over how the station, which is on RNA land, would be staffed and managed.

"That is why we suggested moving it up towards Bowen Bridge Road because people then had a choice of either coming on to our site, or going to work or whatever," he said.

Queensland Rail said the line was used for two weeks for the RNA show and for around six events during the year.

"The Exhibition loop is predominantly used as the main line for northbound and southbound freight services," Queensland Rail said in a statement.

[ozbob]

Well done Brisbanetimes for raising these issues.

All ideas are not necessarily going to come fruition, but maximising the asset we have is one way of improving our public transport and rail options.

Certainly the idea is resonating well with many citizens and the RNA.  I know QR are looking at options too.

The recent increases in public transport patronage as fuel prices continue to increase make it essential that all approaches are considered.

Our original media release -->  7 Jun 2008: Brisbane - Call for Inner South West Rail Loop service

[ozbob]

Blog comments at Brisbanetimes on the article can be found --> here!

There is a lot of support.

[ButFli]

Who is supplying them with this 10000 cars figure?

[ozbob]

No idea, certainly not us.  Maybe they have worked out the number of car parks or something?

[ButFli]

No. They're claiming that 10000 people working in an area means 10000 cars which would magically disappear once a train station opened.

[ozbob]

I just heard a brief interview on 612 ABC Radio with the Chief Executive Officer of Royal Brisbane Hospital, if I heard correctly it was stated that there upwards of 7000 staff and up to 12000 patients and visitors in the area and she was strongly supporting the opening of the station at Exhibition.  Also staff at RBH have been trying for some time to get a rail service. There are problems with the buses for many apparently.  Also RNA spokesman was supportive but suggesting the station should be moved closer to Bowen Hills Road.

This might be the basis for the 10000 in the headline by Brisbanetimes?

Anyway, the issue has had a very good run in the press this week thanks to Brisbanetimes picking up our releases. Hopefully it will endear some lateral thinking down the track!

Another option for the northern suburbs would be a Northgate to Northgate via Central, Roma St, Exhibition and back to Northgate.

One of the key points behind the south-west looper was picking up the inner suburban overloads as at times passengers at places like Toowong, Auchenflower, Yeronga, are struggling to get on trains.
Loopers would give some extra inner suburban capacity and free up some of the longer haul services to run more express patterns.

The intention of this release was to cause some debate, and that it has. There are operational difficulties with the utilisation of the exhibition loop and the cross link.  It has highlighted some of the congestion issues.  Unfortunately too often those who know throw their hands in the air, fail to appreciate that the proposal is simply not a link from Corinda to Tennyson, it was a way of increasing inner city capacity with some flexible options.

I have found it fascinating the responses on the Brisbanetimes blogs (on both articles) from the mainly general commuter public with great supportive suggestions and comments, contrasted against the comments  by the rail fraternity/enthusiasts at various places as to myriad reasons why it is silly.

I think the reason why we have not had much improvement in either lines or service capacity in a real absolute sense until recently (and even then is limited) is that any new idea is always attacked from the point of view of the difficulties and operational problems, rather than perhaps looking at ways that new paradigms might just work and improve things.

Cheers
Ozbob

[O_128]

Did we ever find out what happened to this proposal?

[longboi]

Probably nothing, at least not until the cross-river rail tunnels are complete.

Anyway, the area has two busway stations.

[beauyboy]

I tend to agree that if the Busway was operating like it should (and not under serviced) there would be minimal need for trains to use the Ekka station. At the moment it would be far more practical for translink to sack a director or two and provide more services to the RBWH from the CBD.

Donald

[Jon Bryant]

For SEQ to be truely sustainable well of 60% of all trips need to be made by active and public transport.  To achieve these levels 60% of all trips to the RBH and surrounds need to be by active and public transport.  To manage this a station and maximized busway/lightrail need to be available. 

[stephenk]

Translink need to sort out the overcrowding on the Busway to RCH/RBWH as urgent priority. Full buses again last night, and tonight. Yet more work colleagues have gone back to driving instead of using the Northern Busway since the fare increases.

As I've mentioned before, using Exhibition station for services other than services that start/terminate at Roma Street would be an operational nightmare.

[somebody]

Translink need to sort out the overcrowding on the Busway to RCH/RBWH as urgent priority. Full buses again last night, and tonight. Yet more work colleagues have gone back to driving instead of using the Northern Busway since the fare increases.

As I've mentioned before, using Exhibition station for services other than services that start/terminate at Roma Street would be an operational nightmare.

I agree that sorting out the Northern Busway issues is the number one priority for Translink.  Interesting suggestion by beauyboy to sack a director and use the funds to pay for a better service.  If they can't find competent management, then they aren't doing their job.

If you mean in your Exhibition station statement services which are currently starting/terminating at Roma St, I agree.  And even then you must exclude ones which are then racing empty to run a new service.  There's also bad bang for buck, as compared to improved counter peak busway service.

[#Metro]

How does the planning and co-ordination get done in Melbourne?
Why is Perth not having these issues (maybe they are)?

A review was done on QANGOs for the QLD Gov. TL is listed as "review after 3 years" or something like that.

Buses can only go so far. They are good for now... but the CBD can only hold so many buses..

[O_128]

How does the planning and co-ordination get done in Melbourne?
Why is Perth not having these issues (maybe they are)?

A review was done on QANGOs for the QLD Gov. TL is listed as "review after 3 years" or something like that.

Because both sides of politics went "fuel is rising our people deserve a public transport system free of political intervention,cost blowouts and 30 min off peak frequencies" and transperth was born.  The entire 70km mandurah line only cost 1.6 billion. while 4km of rail in queensland cost 400 million and Their smartrider system is like a mac, It just works.

[#Metro]

Because both sides of politics went "fuel is rising our people deserve a public transport system free of political intervention,cost blowouts and 30 min off peak frequencies" and transperth was born.  The entire 70km mandurah line only cost 1.6 billion. while 4km of rail in queensland cost 400 million and Their smartrider system is like a mac, It just works.

This is what TL is supposed to be. Even the "free of political intervention bit". It has been anything but.

In theory it would be possible to put TransLink on a contract and tender it out.
QLD Gov could pay the people at TransPerth to do the the timetables etc in exchange for funding.

May the best planners win.

At least cubic can be shown the door if GoCard does not work... I think GoCard is getting there.

[somebody]

In the world before the Inner Northern Busway, would it have made sense to have a full time service Roma St-Exhibition to service the hospital?  Someone I work with said today that they should have done so rather than the busway, and I can't say why they are wrong on that one.  Mind you, they did also think it was reasonable to have a Bowen Hills-Exhibition service, but we know that's not happenning.

[#Metro]

Trial it on the currently dead-running services.
Until we get some hard information, it would be difficult to tell whether or not it would work.

[cartel_brisbane]

Having had to work at Herston last year, getting public transport was a nightmare at the best of times (either bus or train or both) at any time.  It was easier and cheaper to park every day.  Yet exhibition station was quite literally across the road (why not build a large walkway like the one at Milton?)

I believe there are certain operational issues with using exhibition station particulary for peak hour services as it involves trains traversing sections of duel-directional track at Bowen Hills (I recall) which is generally tried to avoid as it increases operational problems and possible delays.  Whether thats the absolute certaintity of the matter or not, I can't say.

[#Metro]

They can do it. They do it during Ekka.
They do it whenever they have a Bowen Hills, or Roma St terminator
They do it when a train leaves for the Airport every half hour or so...

[dwb]

Part of the problem is nurses only have to pay $67/fortnight to park on campus. I wouldn't even consider the bus or train if I could do that!

PS, if you consider someone travelling 3 zones, the PT ticket alone (not extra time etc) would cost $64!

[stephenk]

Part of the problem is nurses only have to pay $67/fortnight to park on campus. I wouldn't even consider the bus or train if I could do that!
PS, if you consider someone travelling 3 zones, the PT ticket alone (not extra time etc) would cost $64!

Most staff cannot get into the car parks as they are often full/limited staff spaces, or do not want to pay for the car parks. Don't forget that many hospital staff are on reasonably low wages (admin, cleaners, cooks, health assistants). Many staff park (for free) in the flood zone around Enoggera Creek and at Ballymore.

The bus service to/from Roma St/KGBS/Cultural Centre is now reasonably good for people commuting to/from the South. Public transport to Bowen Hills for people commuting to/from the North could be better. RBWH run a bus every 30mins for staff to Bowen Hills, and the 393 is every 20mins. Many people choose to walk to Bowen Hills which takes 10-15mins. However using Exhibition station for services coming to/from Roma St would not improve average journey times for any users. The business case for running services to Exhibition would currently be difficult to justify.

[somebody]

Part of the problem is nurses only have to pay $67/fortnight to park on campus. I wouldn't even consider the bus or train if I could do that!

PS, if you consider someone travelling 3 zones, the PT ticket alone (not extra time etc) would cost $64!

But then you have the fuel, wear and tear on the car, stress etc.

Exhibition service from Bowen Hills is not practical for so many reasons.  The bi-di track branches off the platform before its end for a start.

Heading between RB&WH and northern lines is probably best done by a bus to the valley, except for Ferny Grove.  It's tougher from RCH.

I would presume that the City Glider will spell the end of the 393 and the eastern part of the 470.

EDIT: But what about my question?  If/when we didn't have the INB, would Exhibition service have made sense?

[cartel_brisbane]

Would this loop service actually service Corinda station (given the serious parking limitations there already is bad enough as it is, without hundreds of more cars wanting to park n' ride.)

However I don't see them introducing it until a second rail link between the South Side and the CBD is built as congestion, particularly during peak times is bad as it is, without adding more services trying to squeeze in. 

[somebody]

cartel_brisbane, what has that got to do with the Exhibition station?  Going off on tangents is one thing, but please don't insert random, off topic comments into existing threads!!

[cartel_brisbane]

Because in the OP, it talked about the Exhibition station as being part of a, to quote "They suggested Exhibition Station be included in a high-frequency commuter rail service through Brunswick Street, Central, South Bank, Yeerongpilly, Indooroopilly, Roma Street and back to Exhibition."

Because Corinda was not mentioned in this, I thought it would be worth discussing.  Also, the issue of adding more trains on limited trackage is important, not just in terms of scheduling but in terms of reliability, possibility of disruption, overloading etc. 

So before going off half-cocked, just pause and think for a moment..

[longboi]

The loop wouldn't service Corinda, otherwise it wouldn't be a loop

[somebody]

Because in the OP, it talked about the Exhibition station as being part of a, to quote "They suggested Exhibition Station be included in a high-frequency commuter rail service through Brunswick Street, Central, South Bank, Yeerongpilly, Indooroopilly, Roma Street and back to Exhibition."

Because Corinda was not mentioned in this, I thought it would be worth discussing.  Also, the issue of adding more trains on limited trackage is important, not just in terms of scheduling but in terms of reliability, possibility of disruption, overloading etc. 

So before going off half-cocked, just pause and think for a moment..

Well, it would be worth quoting what you are refering to when replying to 21 month old comments.

Did we really say that?  I'd say that one should be filed in the trainspotter fantasy file.

[cartel_brisbane]

The loop wouldn't service Corinda, otherwise it wouldn't be a loop

Which is a shame because its missing a fairly important station.

[ozbob]

The loop idea was 2008, things have changed a little but it was a 'hook' that worked well at the time.

There are issues but the notion of some innovative rail routes was not lost.  Some work was actually done at looking at options like that and we may yet see some lateral thinking ..

Cleveland to Ipswich via Tennyson would be a good one?  This includes Corinda.  

[cartel_brisbane]

Interesting for sure!

[stephenk]

Because in the OP, it talked about the Exhibition station as being part of a, to quote "They suggested Exhibition Station be included in a high-frequency commuter rail service through Brunswick Street, Central, South Bank, Yeerongpilly, Indooroopilly, Roma Street and back to Exhibition."

Because Corinda was not mentioned in this, I thought it would be worth discussing.  Also, the issue of adding more trains on limited trackage is important, not just in terms of scheduling but in terms of reliability, possibility of disruption, overloading etc. 

So before going off half-cocked, just pause and think for a moment..

Well, it would be worth quoting what you are refering to when replying to 21 month old comments.

Did we really say that?  I'd say that one should be filed in the trainspotter fantasy file.

I can remember commenting on it being a trainspotter fantasy idea. It would have been a conflicting move nightmare, and a major headache for schedulers.

[somebody]

They can do it. They do it during Ekka.

I'd expect that they only do it from the Roma St side though, especially in peak.  I haven't paid too much attention to what they do in Ekka, but I don't expect or remember service from the Bowen Hills side.

[ozbob]

Ekka loop services run Roma St - Central - Fortitude Valley - Exhibition - Roma St

[somebody]

Ok, but the service that would provide to RBH is similar to getting a 37x bus from Fortitude Valley.

[Jon Bryant]

Isn't there a plan to create a spur off the busway at the RBH to connect to Bowen Hills.  I am sure I read that in the TOD plans for Bowen Hills

[longboi]

Isn't there a plan to create a spur off the busway at the RBH to connect to Bowen Hills.  I am sure I read that in the TOD plans for Bowen Hills

I don't remember ever seeing that one but a Wooloongabba-style busway station could be useful for North-Eastern routes (via Toombul, KSD, Sandgate Rd etc.)

[somebody]

Isn't there a plan to create a spur off the busway at the RBH to connect to Bowen Hills.  I am sure I read that in the TOD plans for Bowen Hills

I don't remember ever seeing that one but a Wooloongabba-style busway station could be useful for North-Eastern routes (via Toombul, KSD, Sandgate Rd etc.)

At first I thought that was an awesome idea, but there wouldn't be enough room in KGSBS for those routes, and the busway would likely be a fair bit slower than the present situation.