Article: New track will slash travel time

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

New track will slash travel time

New track will slash travel time

Zane Jackson | 16th November 2009

TEN minutes could be slashed from train travel times between Ipswich and Brisbane by track duplication and a new station.



Robert Dow supports express trains and more tracks to cut travel times and overcrowding.

TEN minutes could be slashed from train travel times between Ipswich and Brisbane by track duplication and a new station.

Overcrowding on the Ipswich train line is also expected to drop when duplication works between Corinda and Darra are finished and the new Richlands train station opens in 2011.

Train lobby group Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said the increased number of tracks meant it was likely trains leaving Ipswich would run express from Darra to Brisbane.

He said passengers wanting to go to suburban Brisbane stations could get off at Darra and catch an all stations train.

?Overcrowding on the Ipswich line is a big problem; this track duplication means more services will be able to operate and go some way to easing the overcrowding,? Mr Dow said.

?If you have the situation where it runs express from Darra to the city, people who are hopping on now at Darra and other stations who are not going to the city could catch an all services train on the Richlands line.

?They won?t be jumping on to an already crowded train full of Ipswich commuters, and Ipswich commuters won?t be picking up so many extra passengers.

?Of course, an express train from Darra to the city, maybe stopping at stations like Indooroopilly and Toowong, will make the trip faster to Ipswich.?

HE said an express would, on its own, cut six minutes from the 55-minute trip from Ipswich to Brisbane but new tracks and less overcrowding could push the saving to 10 minutes.

Transport Minister and Member for Ipswich Rachel Nolan said creating the express service was a priority.

?The $189 million triplication between Corinda and Darra creates a passing lane between the stations and will therefore allow far more trains to travel express on that section,? Ms Nolan said.

?It also creates capacity for the new trains which will come in from Richlands. These services will be prioritised as we roll out new services.?

Richlands station is the first step in the State Government?s Darra to Springfield Transport Corridor Project.

[somebody]

That's good news.  One of the good things about the Richlands branch is that it provides a decent place to turn trains.  And even though it's single track Darra-Corinda (at least 1 track the Richlands trains should be using), it's a lot better than the previous arrangements which existed at Darra where trains had to cross the operating city bound track to reach the turnback platform.  Also significantly better than the current Corinda terminus.

[Fares_Fair]

Don't count your chickens before they are hatched ...
if the Caboolture to Beerburrum duplication is anything to go by.

We were told in a press release (Wed. 24.12.08) by the former Transport Minister, and now Speaker of the House, John Mickel MP, Member for Logan, that, and I quote,
?The straighter track will improve travel times between Caboolture and Beerburrum by up to 30 percent and the duplication eliminates the need for trains to wait to pass each other as they did on the old single track.? unquote.

The time savings of up to 30% equate to up to 3.6 minutes.

Ms Rachel Nolan MP, Member for Ipswich, also stated in a mostly plagiarised press release of the former Transport Minister, (hers dated Tue. 14.04.09) that the duplication would result in "a smoother, quicker trip". unquote.

To date, and it opened Easter 2009, no such time saving whatsoever eventuated !!
Unfortunately, those are the facts.

Regards,
Fares-Fair

[#Metro]

Maybe she meant "smoother and quicker trip" when you fall over at the newly built or refurbished rail stations?
Or "slash travel time" means slashing your time into shreds when you get delayed...
You never know what they mean with sneaky spin media releases...

[skippy]

Agree we need more express services from Ipswich / Rosewood in peak hours. Timetabling services to stop at 26 consecutive stations from Ipswich was OK years ago, however now services have been increased to be 4 minutes apart this is less than ideal!

Need to consider the objectives of
- filling the train up before running express (at least in the peak)
- maintaining a reasonable frequency
- consideration for the Rosewood line users
- capacity constraints west of Darra

I would like to see initially the 4 of the 6 peak hour services from Ipswich (including the 1/2 hourly Rosewood trains) be tweaked to run every 15 mins, running express from Darra stopping only at the busiest destinatations. The alighting counts from 2009 Passenger Load Survey suggest Indooroopilly, Toowong and Milton. The afternoon pattern would use the same stopping pattern in reverse. This would improve the situation for most users, and as previously suggested those people travelling to intermediate stations could change at Darra or Indro and take a Richlands to city all stations service.

[david]

With today's article about the population explosion in Ipswich, now is the time to get the timetabling right to deal with a massive increase in train users heading towards the City. This article sounds promising, but with the Corinda to Darra project nearing the finish line, there should be some public consultation about timetabling. Perhaps a survey can be done to determine which express patterns are most favourable with commuters and what frequency they expect trains to run at.

I have devised a mock timetable for once the Corinda-Darra project finishes.



Key points:
- Minimum 7-8 minute frequency on the core Darra-Milton stretch
- 8 minute frequency from Ipswich during core peak times (6:30am to 7:30am), 10 minutes outside this
- Retain a half-hourly all-stations service going from Ipswich-City during AM peak. The rest of the services can be a mix of two different express patterns.
- Timetable has incorporated Richlands. All trains currently ex Darra will be extended to Richlands easily.

Although constraints with rollingstock would probably prevent such a timetable from existing (not quite sure how many new trains will arrive by then but I'm only assuming three 6-car trains total), it would be nice if QR still incorporated the key points I have mentioned into the timetable.

[mufreight]

From an operational point of view it would become more benefical to only have one consistent stoping patten for "express" services.
The most logical patten is Ipswich all stations to Corinda then express to Indoorpilly express to Toowoong then express to Roma Street.
Using this patten alternately between the Ipswich line services and those for the Springfield line both in the peak and in the off peak provides a practical means of providing the optimum level of service to both lines and the needed capacity between Darra and the CBD.

[somebody]

From an operational point of view it would become more benefical to only have one consistent stoping patten for "express" services.
The most logical patten is Ipswich all stations to Corinda then express to Indoorpilly express to Toowoong then express to Roma Street.
Using this patten alternately between the Ipswich line services and those for the Springfield line both in the peak and in the off peak provides a practical means of providing the optimum level of service to both lines and the needed capacity between Darra and the CBD.

I would also stop at Milton.  But I'm against retaining all stoppers to Ipswich in peak hour.  All that does is slow down services for many and make for less efficient utilisation of the fleet.  Not to mention possible timetabling difficulties.

Presumably, this is pre-Richlands.  Then you'd need all stoppers to Corinda.  I think there could be one other stopping pattern, but that would be it.

Theoretically, you could have Redbank trains, but I don't see much point.  Redbank isn't exactly an ideal turnback, but you could run to the counter peak direction platform in the PM peak.  In the AM peak that would mean leaving from the wrong platform, so not good.

Also, running express doesn't get much benefit if the timetable is slack.  Then you're having the train waiting at a station or running slow between stations.

[justanotheruser]

I agree that with so many getting off at milton trains either need to stop there or there needs to be an increase in trains running from the city back out past milton. I would be happy to catch an express and go back if there were services. There isn't at the moment. When I missed my stop once I had to wait at roma st for 22 minutes to catch a train back to milton.

As far as stopping schedules for express I don't see the problem with having two stopping patterns. As suggested have Indro and Toowong. Why not also have an Indro and Milton or Toowong and Milton. Same number of stops but it gives more people an express option.

Often I see people here saying people should travel at other times (off-peak) or companies should consider moving out of CBD. How does one expect that if we are going to continue to focus solely on getting people to CBD stations. Give others a go too please.

[somebody]

If you are going to go with 2 different patterns to Ipswich it's not worth it if they are only slightly different.  It needs to be significantly different.

[Fridge]

Ms Rachel Nolan MP, Member for Ipswich, also stated in a mostly plagiarised press release of the former Transport Minister, (hers dated Tue. 14.04.09) that the duplication would result in "a smoother, quicker trip". unquote.

It is a smoother, quicker trip!  You just have to sit and twiddle your thumbs for a while at Beerburrum.

[#Metro]

Ipswich is becoming a CBD in its own right, along with places like Wynnum.
One one hand developments like allow people to work local, shop local and walk/cycle more (which is great, i like this idea).
It also is good for TODs.

However, I think that it will not prevent the increase in passenger demand for city destinations.
This is because when one firm decides to move everything out of the CBD, it creates a gap.
If enough firms do this, then the price of CBD space goes down... attracting companies to fill that gap,
the gap disappears and you are left with a situation where the CBD has stayed more or less the same (plus you now have a firm in the suburbs). NIMBY groups are a problem. They may oppose development in the suburbs or outer areas as they see the CBD as the place where big buildings 'should be'.

With regards to stopping patterns, I think that it should be simple. Stop at Darra express to the city with a stop at Indro for the bus interchange and Toowong for the Uni kids and more buses. Services that originate at Rosewood should preferentially be express where possible.

[#Metro]

Or alternatively a "Gold Coast style" timetable where every Ipswich train is express Darra-CBD stopping only at Indro and Toowong.

[mufreight]

A little oversight there Tramtrain, at the present time there is no bus/rail interchange at Indooroopilly despite the need for one.
Passenger loadings to and from Indooroopilly are generated by the schools, the shopping centre and local high density residental.
The provision of a bus/rail interchange wouls see many who currently endure overcrowded buses to or from the CBD bus to the station then train into the city.
By having express services stopping at Indooroopilly the numbers disembarking at Indooroopilly would be balanced by the numbers interchanging off buses for a faster trip into the CBD.   

[somebody]

Or alternatively a "Gold Coast style" timetable where every Ipswich train is express Darra-CBD stopping only at Indro and Toowong.

Even if this is post-Richlands, skipping Oxley and Milton is quite mean.

And mufreight,
One would expect that once the Richlands station is open we would see the end of the 460 & 461 (Forest Lake-Inala express & rocket) bus routes.  The Richlands station will be so convenient for interchange that even Translink should see that the added value of the single seat service is too small.

[#Metro]

Even if this is post-Richlands, skipping Oxley and Milton is quite mean.

Well it really is up to QR and TL. Might be mean for Oxley people and Milton but good for Ipswich people... Why not an all stations for everything then?

460 and 461 could become local circulating feeder buses, or connect Richland lines to the Beenleigh line side of the rail.

[somebody]

Even if this is post-Richlands, skipping Oxley and Milton is quite mean.

Well it really is up to QR and TL. Might be mean for Oxley people and Milton but good for Ipswich people... Why not an all stations for everything then?

460 and 461 could become local circulating feeder buses, or connect Richland lines to the Beenleigh line side of the rail.

You're thinking of the 462.

Milton has a lot of alightings, so having every train from Ipswich missing there is a bad idea IMO.  Oxley is a busy station and deserves some limited stop service.  Only a few posts ago I said I was against All stoppers to Ipswich in the peak.

[david]

Quite an interesting discussion going on here...

I would like to take a chance to justify my express patterns. Firstly, it has to be acknowledged that a significant proportion of rail users at Oxley are from the Inala/Richlands/Durack area. With the opening of Richlands station, I would expect the passenger volumes to decrease (around to 600-700, currently over 1000). Oxley and Corinda will still have a decent express service in my proposed timetable. This is the reason why there is a Darra-Roma St express rather than an Oxley-Roma St express.

Secondly, the presence of two express patterns is something that I find essential. Although there are no "interurban" services on the Ipswich line, there should still be a point A to point B express service (with no stops in between), similar to the Caboolture/North Coast and Beenleigh/Gold Coast. Both the aforementioned lines have a "large" express (e.g. express Caboolture to Bowen Hills) and a "small express" (e.g. Sunnybank to Park Road stopping at Coopers Plains and Yeerongpilly). Doesn't the Ipswich line deserve that type of service as well?

Thirdly, with regards to Milton, sure there are plenty of people who work there, but with the opening of Corinda to Darra, I would expect that there would be at least a 10 minute frequency going towards Ipswich during AM peak. There could be more, as QR might want to relieve the current constraints with trains at Roma St heading back to the yards by sending more trains away from the CBD. I have done up a City-Ipswich timetable which has services running every 5-10 minutes. I might post this up soon-ish.

There also seems to be some opposition towards retaining half-hourly all stations Ipswich-City services during peak. I say, why not? It gives those who may want to travel to stations apart from the CBD the same "one-seat" journey as during off-peak.

I do agree with some points. Once Richlands opens, bus services from Inala/Forest Lake should seriously be cut back. Currently, that area has a huge array of services. I think a major redesign of bus routes is required in that area to allow trains to take on more passengers.

[somebody]

I would like to take a chance to justify my express patterns. Firstly, it has to be acknowledged that a significant proportion of rail users at Oxley are from the Inala/Richlands/Durack area. With the opening of Richlands station, I would expect the passenger volumes to decrease (around to 600-700, currently over 1000). Oxley and Corinda will still have a decent express service in my proposed timetable. This is the reason why there is a Darra-Roma St express rather than an Oxley-Roma St express.

Well, that would be half of present patronage at Oxley, and less than present at Corinda.  If you are correct, then I guess if it would be OK to miss Corinda then it would be OK to miss Oxley.

Secondly, the presence of two express patterns is something that I find essential. Although there are no "interurban" services on the Ipswich line, there should still be a point A to point B express service (with no stops in between), similar to the Caboolture/North Coast and Beenleigh/Gold Coast. Both the aforementioned lines have a "large" express (e.g. express Caboolture to Bowen Hills) and a "small express" (e.g. Sunnybank to Park Road stopping at Coopers Plains and Yeerongpilly). Doesn't the Ipswich line deserve that type of service as well?

After my first reply, I hadn't been able to read your timetable.  While I think two express patterns to Ipswich/Rosewood is fair, I think there should be only one other pattern on the line.  Otherwise it's not simple enough for pax.  The interchange delay isn't likely to be too inconvenient, even to odd places like Auchenflower.  City pax would be better off to let that train go by and get the express.  Turn up and go pax are better off changing.  So it's only commuters to odd locations who can be bothered reading the timetable that the all stops service is catering to.  And the express trains maximise the utilise of the rollingstock.

Thirdly, with regards to Milton, sure there are plenty of people who work there, but with the opening of Corinda to Darra, I would expect that there would be at least a 10 minute frequency going towards Ipswich during AM peak. There could be more, as QR might want to relieve the current constraints with trains at Roma St heading back to the yards by sending more trains away from the CBD. I have done up a City-Ipswich timetable which has services running every 5-10 minutes. I might post this up soon-ish.

That's completely different to what QR have done up until now.

[justanotheruser]

Even if this is post-Richlands, skipping Oxley and Milton is quite mean.

Well it really is up to QR and TL. Might be mean for Oxley people and Milton but good for Ipswich people... Why not an all stations for everything then?

460 and 461 could become local circulating feeder buses, or connect Richland lines to the Beenleigh line side of the rail.

I'm an ipswich person who doesn't like the idea of skipping milton! My wife wouldn't like the idea either since we both work at milton!

[justanotheruser]

Thirdly, with regards to Milton, sure there are plenty of people who work there, but with the opening of Corinda to Darra, I would expect that there would be at least a 10 minute frequency going towards Ipswich during AM peak.

this seems to me to be wishful sensible thinking. The trend for QR at the moment is to send empty services flying outbound not stopping anywhere. This way they get the trains for the inbound services. If this was to happen however I would be happy to skip milton providing I wouldn't need to leave way earlier to give myself time to get back. Presumably the express would save time so I shouldn't have to leave home more than 10 minuites earlier than I already do.

[stephenk]

Personally I think there should be alternating (through the core section) Richlands/Corinda* all stations services, and Ipswich services running express between Corinda and Roma Street stopping at key stations (such as Indro, Toowong, and Milton). The passenger numbers should be fairly even between the two services going by the passenger number figures released earlier this year.

At the current 13tph, this would be a train for each service running every 9 mins.

*Only 1/2 services would be able to serve Richlands due to the lack of 4th electrified track between Corinda and Darra. 

[somebody]

Personally I think there should be alternating (through the core section) Richlands/Corinda* all stations services, and Ipswich services running express between Corinda and Roma Street stopping at key stations (such as Indro, Toowong, and Milton). The passenger numbers should be fairly even between the two services going by the passenger number figures released earlier this year.

At the current 13tph, this would be a train for each service running every 9 mins.

*Only 1/2 services would be able to serve Richlands due to the lack of 4th electrified track between Corinda and Darra. 

I still prefer splitting the frequency 3 ways, between Richlands, a lesser Ipswich express stopping at stations previously discussed and a greater Ipswich express expressing between Darra & Rome St and Wacol & Gailes.  There may be some other stations beyond Redbank it should miss, trains from Rosewood should use this pattern.  Frequency probably isn't high enough in the PM peak to run the greater express, and it would need to leave Ipswich 3-5mins before the lesser express to avoid catching up to the greater express.  Freight should still be able to reach Darra's fourth track after the lesser express.

[mufreight]

Well Rosewood services are not through services as they are operated by three cars sets on a shuttle with some of the plarforms between Rosewood and Ipswich such as Wulkuraka (which has been shortened) being only three cars long (the dreaded Zero Harm policies come into play on this line also)

[Arnz]

There is very few "through" services to/from Rosewood, and thats usually in the AM/PM peaks.  For the most part most Rosewood "through" services are all-stations or "small" skip 3 stations expresses.

Also, let's not forget the Rosewood Line also suffers the "Zero Harm" policy in the AM/PM Peaks with the back 3-cars usually shut off between Ipswich and Rosewood and passengers being directed to the front 3 cars at Ipswich in the afternoon.

The "Zero Harm" policy for Rosewood and Tennyson Lines are very likely to continue in the near future.  Also to mention there are 2-guards on the "Zero-Harm" affected 6-carriage services.  

The Sunshine Coast Line however were able to get temporary platform extensions north of Landsborough for a number of reasons, one of them being a large outcry from the commuters (and rightly so) and unnecessary crowding in the front 3 carriages till Landsborough.  Also, it would be a long term saving to QR in the long term by removing the 2nd guard from 6-car Nambour services.

[somebody]

Well Rosewood services are not through services as they are operated by three cars sets on a shuttle with some of the plarforms between Rosewood and Ipswich such as Wulkuraka (which has been shortened) being only three cars long (the dreaded Zero Harm policies come into play on this line also)

The first 5 inbound services on a weekday are through services.  I assume that they just open the back 3 cars at Ipswich.

Also, let's not forget the Rosewood Line also suffers the "Zero Harm" policy in the AM/PM Peaks with the back 3-cars usually shut off between Ipswich and Rosewood and passengers being directed to the front 3 cars at Ipswich in the afternoon.

The "Zero Harm" policy for Rosewood and Tennyson Lines are very likely to continue in the near future.  Also to mention there are 2-guards on the "Zero-Harm" affected 6-carriage services. 

2 guards on a train that's effectively 3 cars, WTF?

[Arnz]

2 guards on a train that's effectively 3 cars, WTF?

The 2nd guard on the "zero-harm" 6-car runs basically mans the back 3 cars and locks the doors.  Also acts "passenger service" and reminds passengers when it comes time to move carriages.

I personally think the 2nd guard is a waste of money when the station attendant on the affected lines, or even a single guard could do the same job of checking and locking the back 3 carriages, send the all-clear whistle, then off you go.  It may be longer dwell times at the station, but probably a lot cheaper.

[somebody]

The management of the 6-car trains with back 3 cars locked has been rubbish for some time.  Shouldn't they be announced as 3 car trains, and stop on the 3 car train mark?  Seems obvious to me.  I've seen them stop on the 3 car mark at Yeerongpilly: I'm not sure why they can't do it on the Ipswich line.

[stephenk]

I'll be controversial here. Would running the Rosewood service as a 3-car shuttle service (no through trains) solve the platform length issue?

[somebody]

I'll be controversial here. Would running the Rosewood service as a 3-car shuttle service (no through trains) solve the platform length issue?

Outbound, only 3 trains per weekday run through.  The 11:06pm ex Central definitely locks the back 3 cars from Central, and probably from Caboolture.  Probably the other 2, they just lock the back 3 cars at Ipswich.  I think this is a better solution than the change trains.  On weekends, only the 11:06pm runs through outbound.

[justanotheruser]

The management of the 6-car trains with back 3 cars locked has been rubbish for some time.  Shouldn't they be announced as 3 car trains, and stop on the 3 car train mark?  Seems obvious to me.  I've seen them stop on the 3 car mark at Yeerongpilly: I'm not sure why they can't do it on the Ipswich line.

might be ok on the rosewood line but not on the ipswich line. There are stations where if the train stopped at the three car marker it would block level crossings (both inbound and outbound). So while a good suggestion it would not work unfortunately. The other problem is there are no announcements at early and late times of the day.

[somebody]

might be ok on the rosewood line but not on the ipswich line. There are stations where if the train stopped at the three car marker it would block level crossings (both inbound and outbound). So while a good suggestion it would not work unfortunately. The other problem is there are no announcements at early and late times of the day.

Two points: Shouldn't they still do what I am proposing everywhere that doesn't apply.  Obviously, it could also foul points in some places too.  But at the majority of stations that doesn't apply.

Also, an announcement that the back 3 cars are going to be locked, like the announcement that it's a 3 car train would be good.

[Arnz]

might be ok on the rosewood line but not on the ipswich line. There are stations where if the train stopped at the three car marker it would block level crossings (both inbound and outbound). So while a good suggestion it would not work unfortunately. The other problem is there are no announcements at early and late times of the day.

Rosewood Line stations are only of 3-car length anyway, hence the Zero-Harm procedures in place for that line.

[justanotheruser]

might be ok on the rosewood line but not on the ipswich line. There are stations where if the train stopped at the three car marker it would block level crossings (both inbound and outbound). So while a good suggestion it would not work unfortunately. The other problem is there are no announcements at early and late times of the day.

Two points: Shouldn't they still do what I am proposing everywhere that doesn't apply.  Obviously, it could also foul points in some places too.  But at the majority of stations that doesn't apply.

Also, an announcement that the back 3 cars are going to be locked, like the announcement that it's a 3 car train would be good.

In the early hours of morning and late at night they don't wish to create noise for people living next to rail line and stations so they don't make announcements.

I noticed that some late night trains to ipswich will stop at the 3 carriage train marker once it gets past goodna. Not all trains do this however so it seems to be something driver does at the moment. The other option is they could just make them three carriage trains and leave the other three carriages at the sheds. They used to do that in Sydney when every train on the weekend was 3 carriages.

[somebody]

In the early hours of morning and late at night they don't wish to create noise for people living next to rail line and stations so they don't make announcements.

I noticed that some late night trains to ipswich will stop at the 3 carriage train marker once it gets past goodna. Not all trains do this however so it seems to be something driver does at the moment. The other option is they could just make them three carriage trains and leave the other three carriages at the sheds. They used to do that in Sydney when every train on the weekend was 3 carriages.

But that doesn't apply at Central, FV, and Roma St where it is the most annoying.

Also, your point about the train hanging off of the end of the platform fouling something like a level crossing doesn't apply between Milton and Indooroopilly, so can't they do it there?  Not sure if it applies in the city either.

I think you mean 4 cars for Sydney.