Article: Let's play fare

[ozbob]

From the Brisbane mX 25 May 2012 page 1

Let's play fare

[ozbob]

Additional comments I made was that the times I had been through this lock down ticket check it had only taken 2 or 3 minutes.  All the ones I have been involved in have been off peak (don't think it would work too well at peak ...) If this is going to regularly take 10 minutes or longer it should not be done, but active patrolling instead.  If a passenger is transferring as part of their journey the delay can mean missing connections, and with the terrible off peak frequencies mean long waits.  TransLink need to rethink this.

I also pointed out that there is fare evasion on buses as well.  Checks need to continue on all modes.

[Golliwog]

Yeah, 10 minutes seems a bit high. I'd agree about the difficulty of doing it in peak though. The only way you could do that would be to blanket cover a bunch of stations.

[SurfRail]

Just get them on board the train and do it that way.  Fines still get issued and the trains keeps rolling.  Hop out once done and do the next service following.

[somebody]

Yeah, I don't see the need for this kind of check.

[justanotheruser]

i can confirm these checks have been done during peak hour.  There isn't room on some services in peak hour for them to go through the train but I don't agree with delaying the train either.

In off peak I have seen people walk through the train and get off when when checks were being done. The only real way to combat that is either have two teams of two starting at different ends of the train. or make sure there are people at the station and they can check tickets and have the power to issue fines or detain people. Although in all probability just like in Sydney the barrier staff would refuse this as they don't want the responsibility. That is being the one havingto go to court if it is contested.

[O_128]

why not just blockade a few stations in a row instead?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yawn. Its a shame that someone missed their connecting bus but if it was a serious/major appointment they should have made sure that their own travel plans factored in possible delays and alternatives and not just relying on the quickest journey. The planned station/train setups guarantees that anyone without a valid ticket gets fined as there is nowhere to go (inspectors on the platform and inspectors on the train). They are usually pretty quick when its organised as a joint effort but people onboard are the ones that usually delay the train. Part of the major ticket check was at Zillmere last week between peak hour (Involved about 20 people made up of ticket inspectors from QR/Translink and police). All outbound passenger trains used the middle track so there was no escaping the island platform. Apparently they were held for about 3-4 minutes at the absolute most each time but some were held slightly longer due to people onboard ignoring and challenging the ticket inspectors or police/playing i can't find my ticket or concession card/difficulty navagating the carriages (prams/bikes)/didn't take notice of the verbal comments to prepare tickets ie headphones etc or inspectors doing their job and wanting to verify if their concession travel was valid ie wanting to see concession cards/student id cards. It was well performed considering inbound and outbound trains arrived there within 4 minutes of each other.

[Fares_Fair]

Yawn. Its a shame that someone missed their connecting bus but if it was a serious/major appointment they should have made sure that their own travel plans factored in possible delays and alternatives and not just relying on the quickest journey. The planned station/train setups guarantees that anyone without a valid ticket gets fined as there is nowhere to go (inspectors on the platform and inspectors on the train). They are usually pretty quick when its organised as a joint effort but people onboard are the ones that usually delay the train. Part of the major ticket check was at Zillmere last week between peak hour (Involved about 20 people made up of ticket inspectors from QR/Translink and police). All outbound passenger trains used the middle track so there was no escaping the island platform. Apparently they were held for about 3-4 minutes at the absolute most each time but some were held slightly longer due to people onboard ignoring and challenging the ticket inspectors or police/playing i can't find my ticket or concession card/difficulty navagating the carriages (prams/bikes)/didn't take notice of the verbal comments to prepare tickets ie headphones etc or inspectors doing their job and wanting to verify if their concession travel was valid ie wanting to see concession cards/student id cards. It was well performed considering inbound and outbound trains arrived there within 4 minutes of each other.

Respectfully disagree, 10 minutes delay is way too long for this.
Getting on express trains and going right through the carriages works well.

I suspect most evasion occurs with single or short trips away from the CBD (no stats so a subjective assumption).
Ultimately gates will sort out most of it, but until then the policing is a necessity - it just needs to be handled in a timely fashion where possible.

[ozbob]

No yawn from me HTG.  It is unsatisfactory to randomly subject passengers to unplanned 10 minute delays, full stop.  Particularly with the rat sh%t frequency we have to put up with.  It is no joke be jigged around for an extra hour because of missed connections due to a 'ticket lock down'.

Time TransLink reviewed this.  The same goals can be achieved by a blanket on board ticket check (all carriages simultaneously) whilst on the move.

[ozbob]

Need 12 + 2 TO/SNO/QPS

Trains pulls into station, two authorised officers join each carriage.  Two remain on platform to check all pax detraining.

Checks proceed as train journeys on.

Don't see what the problem is.  Still the same complete check as a stationary, without the potential agro from p%ssed off pax who are going to miss connections etc.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Oh please. The planned major inspections are made up of around 20 people from the QPS, QR and Translink never take anywhere near 10 minutes to contuct an inspection on one six car train. They are always exaggerated because sitting at a platform for 2 minutes seems like 10 minutes. They have prior information about broken/faulty readers at stations, the majority board, some wait on the platforms to issue fines as soon as they get off, quickly inspect tickets, can't produce a gocard/ticket they refer you to the police who tell you to detrain, once done signal the guard that they have the right of way, continue to write up the people on the platform then prepare to do the next train. The only time it gets anywhere near close to that are when people without tickets challenge the inspectors and choose to make a public fuss about it instead of getting off the train as directed. If its such an issue of time then god knows how they did it every time with a 4 minute turn around between the inbound and outbound services at Zillmere.

[ozbob]

Your descriptions confirm that it can be done on the move and should be done on the move.  No need to potentially disrupt passengers in their connections. 

I have been a  through a few of these, in most cases it has been done in a reasonable time frame.  But that cannot always be guaranteed as was the one referred to in the mX.  There are enough disruptions due to the myriad of other issues on the network, passengers can do without further interruptions due to ticket lock downs. 

It can be done equally as well on the move, with the same personnel.   

[Fares_Fair]

wasn't the go card going to solve this ... 

+2 for ozbob.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Well, it fixed the bus network 

[somebody]

No yawn from me either.

I don't think any other jurisdiction sees the need for this kind of check.  If people are on the ground at the stations that does close the loophole of people jumping off the train when they see the inspectors.

You could also do the checks in express zones for Ipswich trains.  Perhaps there is some problem with that </sarcasm>.

[justanotheruser]

Oh please. The planned major inspections are made up of around 20 people from the QPS, QR and Translink never take anywhere near 10 minutes to contuct an inspection on one six car train. They are always exaggerated because sitting at a platform for 2 minutes seems like 10 minutes. They have prior information about broken/faulty readers at stations, the majority board, some wait on the platforms to issue fines as soon as they get off, quickly inspect tickets, can't produce a gocard/ticket they refer you to the police who tell you to detrain, once done signal the guard that they have the right of way, continue to write up the people on the platform then prepare to do the next train. The only time it gets anywhere near close to that are when people without tickets challenge the inspectors and choose to make a public fuss about it instead of getting off the train as directed. If its such an issue of time then god knows how they did it every time with a 4 minute turn around between the inbound and outbound services at Zillmere.

i always ask for id of people checking tickets.  Probably different now with go card readers but it is not hard to get hold of a uniform. i had a police shirt uniform complete with badges and tags. have seen translink shirts as well. it is amazing what gets put into charity bins!

I know i was delayed longer than a few minutes when ticket checks were done during peak hour. It was a joke watching them trying to get around the passengers. Personally I would suggest delaying a train for 3-4 mins to do this is unacceptable. if there was no alternative then i might consider it ok but there is an alternative way.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

27th May 2012

Concerns with train lock down ticket checks

Greetings,

On Friday, the Brisbane mX highlighted some concerns with delays caused by train lock down ticket checks (Let's play fare 25 May 2012 page one).

Theses checks are conducted by a large number of Transit Officers/Senior Network Officers/Queensland Police Service, the train is stopped, all passengers in all carriages tickets checked and on the platform whilst the train is stopped.

The problem is that the time it takes for the conduct of these checks can mean that passengers might miss ongoing connections and appointments.

There is no reason why these checks cannot be conducted in a similar manner on the move.

For example, trains pulls into station, two authorised officers join each carriage.  Two remain on platform to check all pax detraining.

Checks proceed as train journeys on.

Still the same complete check as a stationary process, without the potential aggravation from pax who are going to miss connections etc.

We abhor fare evasion, but there needs to be consideration for passengers who are doing the right thing as well.

There are enough unplanned disruptions on our public transport network without passengers having to put up with further delays due to ticket checks.

A delay of 5 to 10 minutes can mean a missed connection and because of the abysmal frequency on most of our public transport network journey time can be increased by an hour or more?  Is this customer focus??

It is time TransLink reviewed this policy.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Golliwog]

The problem I see with doing the checks on the move is that while it still works and you check all the tickets on the train, you move further and further down the line. You end up with less and less people on the train and eventually end up checking no one. If your problem is delaying pax then you would be better off stationing TO's at consecutive stations along a line to check everyone getting on/off the train.

Even if you check on the move and then move back to the original station, you're going to end up wasting time with the TO's asically doing nothing as they move back to the start station.

I'd also like to agree with HTG about the idea this was a 10 minute delay being an exaggeration. I've been through these a few times now and everytime it's just been police/TO's walk through (sometimes with a sniffer dog) checking everyone's tickets, then they get off with any fare evaders found. Very quick.

[justanotheruser]

Even if you check on the move and then move back to the original station, you're going to end up wasting time with the TO's asically doing nothing as they move back to the start station.

I'd also like to agree with HTG about the idea this was a 10 minute delay being an exaggeration. I've been through these a few times now and everytime it's just been police/TO's walk through (sometimes with a sniffer dog) checking everyone's tickets, then they get off with any fare evaders found. Very quick.

they could just as easily be doing nothing in between trains as well.

i know on one occasion the delay was at least six minutes. it is worth noting I did not look at the time straight away so do not know how long the actual delays was. i would suggest this is the exception rather than the rule but still unacceptable in my opinion.

[Golliwog]

True they could be doing nothing inbetween trains. Though they tend to site them so they can easily be doing trains in both directions. Everytime I've had them has been at Mitchelton station in the evenings, offpeak. In the offpeak with 2tph, the trains pass in opposite directions at Keperra and Newmarket stations, so Mitchelton is a good spot as theres decent time between a train going one way and the train going the other.

[ozbob]

10 minutes delay happened according to sources.  It is unacceptable.  CityRail have done the same train blitzs effectively on the move. 

It is treating passengers poorly with such attitudes, and just builds up community resentment.  It can be done easily on the move, in the time it takes between a station or two.  Any pax getting off are checked of course.

Personally, it bothers me that people doing the right thing are getting messed around, and particularly with the poor frequency really can complicate journey times.  Get out into the real world where if you are lucky you are transferring into a hour frequency bus etc.  Miss it and it is a long wait.

TransLink are going to look into too it.  If there is a problem with an individual during the checks, take them off the train and let the train proceed.

[ozbob]

Some feedback received, thanks!

Can somebody please contact translink and ask them to reduce the amount of transit officers on busy trains? The issue is that almost all peak hour trains are overcrowded and having another 2 - 4 people pushing through the aisles is a huge safety issue. I have witnessed on many occasions people almost falling over while trying to make room for these officers. I have also head of a story from a friend who said he saw an elderly man on a richlands train fall over while a female officer was trying to squeeze past.
I fear a serious could happen very soon if these officers continue to use peak hour services.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Heaven forbid should someone try to get to the door of the train to get off at their station.

[Golliwog]

Peak hour would be better with station side checks. Or only once the service is running counter peak and so less crowded. I'd be interested to know how many turn up if they stationed TO's shortly after the go gates at Central and Roma St. I've witnessed people closely tailing people through a gate as they evidently don't have a valid ticket.

[justanotheruser]

Peak hour would be better with station side checks. Or only once the service is running counter peak and so less crowded. I'd be interested to know how many turn up if they stationed TO's shortly after the go gates at Central and Roma St. I've witnessed people closely tailing people through a gate as they evidently don't have a valid ticket.

and seem as they don't want to actually have people at the gates it is easy to do this.