Article: 'Budget busway' best bet, says Laming

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

'Budget busway' best bet, says Laming

'Budget busway' best bet, says Laming
TONY MOORE
July 30, 2010 - 5:40AM

A "budget busway" should be built from Carina to Capalaba in the middle of Old Cleveland Road instead of bay commuters waiting until 2027 for the "gold-plated" two-lane Eastern Busway, Federal MP Andrew Laming believes.

The first two stages of the Eastern Busway - from Stones Corner to Bennetts Road at Camp Hill - will cost $1.6 billion and still be 14 kilometres before Capalaba.

The complete project's cost is estimated at $3.3 billion in 2009 dollars, but Mr Laming said using the green strip between the lanes for a single-lane busway would be cheaper and faster.

"This would potentially halve the cost and you could also do it much sooner," he said.

Trams once ran down Old Cleveland Road, and a green corridor still exists between the two and three-lane east and west-bound lanes of the road all the way to Capalaba.

In inner-city suburbs the tram lines are still visible at Camp Hill, while at Carina shopping centre there is car parking in the middle of Old Cleveland Road.

Further east at Chandler the green strip between the road is almost 10 metres wide.

brisbanetimes.com.au understands Infrastructure Australia recently questioned the "over-engineering" of the busway project and has asked for alternatives to be canvassed.

It is understood that Infrastructure Australia has expressed concerns at the extent of tunnelling in the project and questions the cost-benefit status of the project as it stands today.

brisbanetimes.com.au understands IA is concerned the project is not giving staged benefits.

Mr Laming said the State Government was refusing to explore cheaper options and insisted on pushing ahead with the long-term planning of the Eastern Busway.

Queensland Transport provided basic data on the project but would not provide traffic projections or answer questions on Mr Laming's election-time suggestion, despite his claims.

"The first thing is that the State Government has done no scoping or costing of what I am talking about," Mr Laming said.

"State Labor remains committed to an $800 million solution that does not get beyond Bennetts Road at Camp Hill until 2026.

"So they are only going to get to Camp Hill by 2026 and that is in the latest infrastructure plan. It is simply too slow."

Work is under way now on a $465 million, one-kilometre section from Stones Corner to nearby Langlands Park. The next section would be the most complex and involves tunnelling beneath Old Cleveland Road.

Mr Laming said it would be more cost-effective to run a single lane bus at ground level from Carina between the east and west-bound lanes of Old Cleveland Road.

He said "normal" TransLink buses could use the mid-road "busway" at Bus Upgrade Zone route frequency and return in the opposite direction on Old Cleveland Road "against the traffic" in both morning and evening peak hours.

In Adelaide, trams run in the middle of major roads to give commuters access to coastal areas.

Bowman's ALP candidate Jenny Peters said she would comment this morning.

The State Government project has been examined and backed by the Council of Mayors, which includes representatives from Southeast Queensland mayors.

Council of Mayor's officers have been in regular discussion with Infrastructure Australia.

[colinw]

I wonder how much the original tramway in Old Cleveland Road cost to put in?

[tronixstuff]

The mind boggles ... every time I see those tram lines I get a case of the sh!ts.
$465 million for 1km? That Laming bloke is onto something, surely bus lanes, priority traffic lights and so on could be built all the way to Victoria Point for less than half a billion. And some nice new buses as well.

[#Metro]

How much would it cost to refurbish the tram tracks and run trams or light rail?

[somebody]

I wonder how much the original tramway in Old Cleveland Road cost to put in?

Who cares?

Looking at the area in Google Earth, how on earth would what he is suggesting be instead of the Eastern Busway?  Rather it would increase the imperative for it.  I can see his point though.  Would be able to be done from Orwell St, Camp Hill to Creek Rd, Carindale and again from Wright St, Carindale to Chandler. 

Would not necessarily be a nice passenger experience having the stop sometimes in the middle of the road and at other times on the side of the road, that's the main problem.

[paulg]

The expensive part of the busway proposal is the tunnelling between Langlands Park and Camp Hill. The State Government proposal uses the median (where the tram tracks are still visible) from Camp Hill to Carindale. I can't see how Laming is planning to squeeze a one lane bus lane in the median all the way through (just not enough room from Langlands to Camp Hill, unless lots of turning lanes are sacrificed). So if it only the Camp Hill to Carindale section he is talking about, you may as well build the full two lane busway, since there is plenty of room for it.

The current State Government plans are here: http://www.translink.com.au/eastern_maps.php

Money could be saved further east by making the Belmont, Chandler and Capalaba stations above ground instead of below ground (viaducts instead of tunnels).

Cheers, Paul

[Jonno]

Could we see the first hook turns outside Melbourne to replace the turning lanes?  I used to love them!!!!   

[Golliwog]

I would actually prefer the bus stop in the middle of the road. It would make getting to the stop easier, as (if its a busy road anyway) theres less traffic to dodge and you only need a break in one side to get across to your stop.

[colinw]

I wonder how much the original tramway in Old Cleveland Road cost to put in?

Who cares?

The point I was making is that we used to be able to create public transport infrastructure for a reasonable cost, and with a minimum of fuss and bureaucratic messing around.  If Brisbane City Council wanted to lay a tramline along a major road - like the extensions to Chermside, Mt Gravatt & along Old Cleveland Road in the early '50s, it was voted on, funded, design happened and it opened, all within a reasonable period of time and for a reasonable cost.

These days - stuff gets punted around for years or decades as a politicized proposal, usually due years beyond the end of the current term & prone to the vagaries of the political process.  With each year of delay, costs rise & blow out, and projects get further gold plated with ever more over engineered stations, etc.

The end result - we're paying $billions for a few km of busway, to put back something roughly along the route of a perfectly good tram line that was built cheaply & then stupidly removed before it was even 20 years old.  The net effect will be something with far less capacity than heavy rail, less capacity than the vanished tramline, but which will cost a bloody fortune to build.

That is why I am so cranky about the busway system.  Yes - it is a good system, works quite well, but we are spending as much or more money per kilometre as dual track heavy rail for a system with a peak capacity that is much lower.

Much is made in certain quarters of the fact that the South East busway carries as many or more passengers as most Brisbane rail lines.  This is in fact NOT an argument for the superiority of busways, rather it is a reflection of just how poorly serviced & underutilised our rail system is.

I think it is pathetic that we have systematically underfunded and under serviced our potentially great suburban rail system, to the point that we are now spending billions building a duplicate line haul system.  One which costs as much per km as rail, but will clag up at far lower level of patronage.

The "busway" period of Brisbane public transport development will come to be seen as an era of waste & lost opportunity, only eclipsed in stupidity by the Southport rail abandonment of 1964 and the tramway abandonment of 1969.

End of rant.

[#Metro]

The end result - we're paying $billions for a few km of busway, to put back something roughly along the route of a perfectly good tram line that was built cheaply & then stupidly removed before it was even 20 years old.  The net effect will be something with far less capacity than heavy rail, less capacity than the vanished tramline, but which will cost a bloody fortune to build.

But it was not removed. The tracks and alignment are still there. The track needs to be re-inspected for its condition, costs figured out for removing the overlaying bitumen and electrification. I'm sure it would be less than $billions the engineering companies are quoting.

[somebody]

This is in fact NOT an argument for the superiority of busways, rather it is a reflection of just how poorly serviced & underutilised our rail system is.

I think it is pathetic that we have systematically underfunded and under serviced our potentially great suburban rail system, to the point that we are now spending billions building a duplicate line haul system.  One which costs as much per km as rail, but will clag up at far lower level of patronage.

Definitely agree with the first point about the poor performance of rail in Brisbane.  To be frank, I do wonder how much of it is politics and how much is the public service's fault.  The Railway Digest article of last year put it in the latter's camp.

Capital costs are only one part of the equation though.  The other side is operating costs - not sure how these stack up.

[#Metro]

Do you have a link the the Railway digest article or the page numbers?

[somebody]

Do you have a link the the Railway digest article or the page numbers?

Nov 2009, pp 4-5.

I posted on it at the time.

[colinw]

From what I have heard, the problem is not political at all, and comes down to an anti-rail attitude in Queensland Transport.

The decisions ministers make are only as good as the quality of the departmental advice.

[#Metro]

From what I have heard, the problem is not political at all, and comes down to an anti-rail attitude in Queensland Transport.
The decisions ministers make are only as good as the quality of the departmental advice.

Really?

[ozbob]

QR are keen to put on more services is what I understand.  It is a ' funding ' issue ....  and has been for a while now.

I am optimistic though that this is going to be turned around.  Ramping train frequency will have a huge flow on effect in terms of significant economic benefits at many levels.  Look at Victoria, VLine and now 5 to 10 minute train frequency for the subs the lessons are there.  Go rail!!

[somebody]

QR are keen to put on more services is what I understand.  It is a ' funding ' issue ....  and has been for a while now.

I am optimistic though that this is going to be turned around.  Ramping train frequency will have a huge flow on effect in terms of significant economic benefits at many levels.  Look at Victoria, VLine and now 5 to 10 minute train frequency for the subs the lessons are there.  Go rail!!

Regarding Victoria, I just did a search on their journey planner to Pakenham, and I note that it has an hourly frequency during the day (although supplemented by intercitys), but a 9 minute frequency in the peak.

Regarding your other points though, can you imagine if the city-Indro corridor didn't have the 15 minute daytime frequency?  Buses would be packed to the gunnels, and coro + Milton Rd would be even more chockers than they are.  Or at least that's my read of the situation.

[ozbob]

Yes, Pakenham is sort of equivalent to Landsborough ...  even todays timetable for Pakenham is so much better than the Sunny line.

Melbourne is looking towards 10 minute frequency.  Exciting stuff really.  VLine is the big success story.

[somebody]

Yes, Pakenham is sort of equivalent to Landsborough ...  even todays timetable for Pakenham is so much better than the Sunny line.

Melbourne is looking towards 10 minute frequency.  Exciting stuff really.  VLine is the big success story.

In 2008, I visited relatives at or near Glen Waverley on a weekend.  I'm pretty sure the frequency was half hourly then.  It seems that the Sunday frequency has now gone to 20 minutes and the weekday frequency is now 15 minutes.  Much betterer.

Do you mean 10 minute frequency off peak there?

[ozbob]

Yes, the main lines seem to be heading that way.  See --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4186.0